My oldest is starting to look at colleges:she has ruled out whole

regions based upon politics.

She stated tonight that she wouldn't even consider the midwest or south(except for North Carolina)she brought up the proposed Missouri -Christianity as state religion law, and said she just doesn't want to deal with the fundamentalists and that this is one way to narrow down her search

See post 11 for further information; she is also concerned about the trend to have fundies apply to pharmacy programs and then get hired and refuse to administer drugs prescribed

gem of a college in a liberal bastion in a red state you don't want to overlook. Hopefully DUers in those states can point them out.

Good luck. :)

College towns are almost always blue, even in the reddest of states,
but they are subject to state laws, which will soon include abortion
bans in many red states once the Roberts court overturns Roe v. Wade.
If I were your daughter, I would find that reason enough to stick to
the very bluest states where abortion bans are least likely to pass.

in the most liberal city in Kansas. Fabulous school. And Lawrence rocks.

ditto. Ditto. And Ditto.

Although you forgot to mention the witty, erudite, and physically attractive alumni.

..is a bastion of liberalism.

It is an incredible place to attend college. Great small city. Wonderful people. Awesome, beautiful campus (and no I don't work for their admissions office).

Also, University of Wisconsin at Madison is wonderful and ultra liberal.

Don't rule out the Midwest, just yet!

two of his sons have gone to school there. His daughter will be a freshman at Iowa next year.

Definitely a liberal town.

I know Bush** "won" it in '04, but what is his approval rating in the state now?
38% per SurveyUSA, which is generally Repub-friendly.

Come to think of it, how many states still give Bush**ler a 50+% approval rating? 7.
Utah, Idaho, Alabama, Wyoming, Nebraska, Oklahoma and Montana per Survey USA.

The poll is from Feb 16th, and Bush**'s national numbers have dropped since then,
so these numbers are probably high (which would probably knock Montana off).

And I live in one of the blue counties and used to live in Iowa City (which was transcendently cool before 1970 and downtown "urban renewal." Iowa only went a pale shade of red when the Holy Rollers got worried about gay marriage and came out in 2004 to vote against Kerry. Iowa was for Clinton and Gore for instance. And then Gore and whatzisname.

I live in a "blue" city, but it's in a "red" county.

The fact remains that cities are blue and the rural areas are red - in EVERY state.

The divide isn't North and South - it's rural vs. urban.

which has a solid mix of Dems and Repubs in the student body. Academic life tends to be more liberal anyway, because of learning and reading and so on. So it's a pretty good place to be. Also, the University of Montana is a great place. Missoula is an awesome city, not very big, liberal, the new Governor is the most progressive in the country, the state Lege is controlled by Dems now and there is no real crime or anything like that.

and I'm also fond of Moscow, Idaho, which is a progressive town in a very conservative state. For a very hip, liberal college town, Eugene, Oregon, is pretty great, too.

nice hip little liberal towns. Lot of fun. :)

Chapel Hill, Austin and Ashville! But generally a safe plan she has there.

aka "Golden Showers". I remember it well. :D

skip the midwest. Many good colleges here (remind her Wellstone taught at Carleton) and we've stayed blue in the presidential races.

my daughter goes to Augsburg and I love going to visit her cuz of all the liberal bumper stickers on the cars. Plus, it is a good place for her to learn at cuz they care about her needs along with the curriculum. I was blown away when she came home telling how this teacher did this for her or another teacher hooked her up with someone who knew more about what she was curious about.

lesson:

I think I can speak fo quite a few New Englanders that we would consider Minn,WI, Northern IL,the Dakota's, Michigan,Upper midwest

midwest to us would be Southern Ill,MO, IA,Kansas, NE

Ohio falls in the Ohio Valley along with Indiana and West VA

West starts in CO or actually once you leave New England:)

blue and beautiful Austin

I visited a friend there. UT Austin truly is an oasis in a sea of red.
Great town as well.

can't get more liberal that this. Also, my daughter just graduated from University of Minnesota, Twin Cities in December. She chose that over Madison and has never regretted it. Both excellent schools and St. Paul is true blue.

If politics are a factor (and hopefully quality of education) you can't go wrong with either UW-Madison or UMN Twin Cities.

Very progressive, very educated community, and there's soon to be a Trader Joe's on Monroe Street. What more could you ask for?
(And you can help vote against the anti-gay marriage amendment in November....)

to the benighted. In reality, most people aren't politically aware - think how few vote. How many of those who do, do so with real convictions. In most places, people are people - good, bad and indifferent. Tell her to attend the school she wants to attend. Don't worry about the neighborhood.

They could have enlightened all those future SS Men to the error of their ways.

Staying out of Dumbfuckistan is a wise precaution and choice. One more "terrorist" attack and all of Imperial Amerika will finish transforming into a BushPutinist "Paradise".

And Dumbfuckistan is reverting to it's pre-Civil Rights Act mentality, except they don't lynch blacks for trying to vote anymore. They just make sure those votes don't count. Not as much messy blood to clean up and unpleasant questions to answer.

Are there good people in Dumbfuckistan? Of course, there are good people everywhere. But in dumbfuckistan, the people who wish the utter (and perhaps physical) eradication of liberalism are growing by leaps and bounds.

It will take only a small amount of "government authorization" to enable them to bring their drak fantasies out into the Real World.

When that happens, you want to be in a place where Free Americans outnumber Kinder and Gentler Nazis.

And that attitude gets us nowhere.

True Blue states? California gave us Reagan (don't get me wrong, I moved to "Dumbfuckistan" from there, and adore California) and New York has Bloomberg and Pataki.

Bush's approval ratings are 46% here in Indiana, and they are much higher in Utah and Wyoming, western states. So stop with the generalizations already. They are insulting, and not helpful, and you are fear-mongering -- that is a right-wing tactic.

Eugene Debs, from Indiana, as he is sentenced to prison for being a pacifist:

"Your Honor, years ago I recognized my kinship with all living beings, and I made up my mind that I was not one bit better than the meanest on earth. I said then, and I say now, that while there is a lower class, I am in it, and while there is a criminal element I am of it, and while there is a soul in prison, I am not free."

I do not live in fear of my fellow Hoosiers. I live among them, and talk to them, and they aren't as evil as the leaders who have bamboozled them, and exploited them, and they are not automatons who would kill their neighbors just because an ignorant chimp told them to.

Shout out to the liberals in the so-called "red" states. We are many, and we won't shut up.

I believe I said that. I also fully agree with Debs' sentiments. I am no better than anyone else, either. It is not a matter of elitism and fear-mongering. It is pragmatics based on the long, demonstrably repeating flow of history.

I never said the there is such a thing as a True Blue state. There are good people everywhere, and bad ones, too. There are good people who are Republicans, and bad people who are Democrats. And so forth.

Read up on the Milgram experiments. It is human nature to have the capacity to do terrible thing with the tiniest imprimatur of authorization.

http://www.new-life.net/milgram.htm

And it won't be the people you live with today...likely it will be their grandchildren and great-grandchildren, who never knew freedom as you and I did, who only know fear and terror and obedience and lies and Totaliarian BushPutinism.

(that is, unless the Curtain of Totalitarian Darkness can be reversed here in the Empire, which is still a longshot possibility I will continue to keep working for)

My point was not one of generalization but of pragmatism. When Nazism (or it's Kinder and Gentler Spiritual Inheritor, BushPutinism) rears it's head, which is the safest place to be for one who believes in freedom?

Is it:

a) Berlin (Washington DC)
b) The Nazi southern strongholds of Bavaria and Munich (The Old Confederacy and the Southern West)
c) Places where high percentages of people resist the Nazis, dsagree with them, and assist dissenters (Free America ro even better, anywhere the shrunken remains of the Free World clings to the principles of Constutiuonal Governance and Free Elections)

Let me say again: This is NOT to generalize about people. I have no doubt that there are many, many good people trapped behind the lines. I have no doubt that, when crunch-time comes, they will do their duty as Patriotic Americans and Decent Human Beings, in the spirit if not the traditions of great men like Debs.

But the facts remain that the South and now the southern midwest are strongholds of BushPutinism, and therefore the worst places to be for freedom-loving individuals.

Sorry, that's how I see it. I have no doubt that there are many good people in Indiana. You may get to meet more of them as a senior citizen in one of Halliburton's new Homeland Detention Camps.

And the literature on Authoritarianism.

But I choose a more optimistic view of human nature. Remember that in the Milgram experiments, subjects were not asked to torture people they actually KNEW -- their family, friends, or neighbors.

I would also dispute the characterization of these places as "strongholds." They are not. In fact, a lot of these so-called "strongholds" are quickly becoming disillusioned with Bush, as their sons and daughters go off to war, some of them never to return, quite a few of them returning minus a limb or two.

And given the fact that in reality the Democratic candidates won both of the last two presidential elections, and given my own experience living in a red state, I do not believe that the Bushbots are as numerous as you seem to think.

Where does your position lead us? It seems to lead us to a reaction similar to what you are anticipating from the right. How do we win? We can't win with their tactics, (and if we did, we would win by becoming what we despise) so what would you propose beyond debate and education? And how do we debate and educate, if we segregate? (Yikes, now I'm sounding like Jesse Jackson!)

Do we wall ourselves off, do we start a liberal exodus, and just concede the heartland to the Rethugs? I will not do that. I will fight. Besides, what makes you think you are any safer in a blue state, when Bush still has all the resources of the military at his disposal? Do you think, if he wanted to destroy you, he couldn't reach you there?

And if they want to haul me off to a Halliburton Detention Center, I will go, kicking and screaming all the way. And once I get there, I will do my best to start an uprising.

A great book, a hopeful book, is James Scott's "Domination and the Arts of Resistance" (1999). I recommend it.

Also, on a side note. I by no means feel less free here in the Midwest than I did in the West. I was outspoken there, and outspoken here, and NOBODY here has interfered with my right to speak my liberal mind.

And you are generalizing. Re-read what you wrote.

Peace.

You are correct that there will be NO safe place in this country to hide from the storm, but I am talking about improving one's chances.

Circling back to the original topic, and in a more pertinent vein to the young lady who is choosing schools, she is correct to be leery of places that may limit her reproductive choices or deny her medicines because of "moral values".

We will have to agree to disagree here.

PS Vonnegut is perhaps my favorite author, and is one of many of Indiana's "gifts to humanity" along with Mr. Debs.

Poteet-weet.

:hi:

And I think we probably agree on more than we disagree.

Vonnegut blew my mind when I was like 12 years old (we won't talk about how long ago that was) and introduced me to Debs. He has been my favorite author ever since. So cynical, so idealistic, and SO DAMN FUNNY.

:hi:

An older friend recommended "The Sirens of Titan". Library didn't have it so I took "Slaughterhouse 5" instead. KVjr changed my life. He fell off in later works (Bluebeard? - C'mon, Kurt), but any ONE of the great novels could have made a career.

because it seems you have surrendered. At least surrendered a major part of this country. Its a part of this country that we need to appeal better to if we want to govern again. Moral preening is easy, but looks hard. Strategic compromise is hard, but looks easy.

a school in a state where abortions are prohibited. Eliminating a choice from her options in dealing with reproductive health would never be considered.

Lots of liberal college towns here. I live in Bloomington -- work at IU -- very liberal. So is Madison, WI, and Ann Arbor, MI, and Chicago.

i was considering IU for graduate school, but heard negative reviews about bloomington from a number of my profs ... they argued that the dynamics of bloomington were very similar to the dynamics of my undergrad (dynamics I was trying to escape): that it offered all the cultural opportunities of a college town, but was fairly moderate for a college town, was surrounded by an ocean of red in a very red state, suffered the oppressive influence of religous fanaticism in the region, and had a horribly biased conservative/corporatist media (they may have been including the Indianapolis media in this assessment).

Anyway, this is not why I wound up not going to IU, and I've never been to Bloomington to assess the situation for myself, but it's colored my general thinking of the town.

I say all this not to bash your hometown, but because it's nice to get a different perspective, and I'm glad you enjoy it. :):toast:

And I think your prof sounds a little too excited about bashing Bloomington -- hyperbolic, even. Was he/she speaking from experience, or just trying to steer you somewhere else?

Plus, Indianapolis is also a blue city, and Indiana has, (until My Bitch Mitch) traditionally elected many democrats at the state and congressional level.

I'm having a great time in grad school, and I came here from true blue California.

But of course I was raised in Bton - have also lived in DC, A2, and the Bay Area (CA) for grad school before coming back to split time in Bton and Indy. Interesting thing most folks don't know... Indianapolis is the home of the only Black Congressional Caucus member to be elected by a predominantly white congressional district (Julia Carson).

Generally speaking local level politics around the state let through some religious crazies - but statewide elections generally never go to the religious right repubs; Mitch was considered not to be a religious fanatacist (indeed the rel. right folks ran opposition to Mitch in the primaries) - but a Business Repub. Interesting how unpopular he got, real fast, with his all for business and nothing for the people approach to state govt.

I was born here in Indiana too -- and I come from a long line of factory-working union members -- Democrats, all. I get touchy when people make generalizations about my home state. Sure, there are conservatives here, but let's remember that my adopted (and beloved) state, California, gave us Reagan -- while I was there they elected Deukmajian twice, and now they have the terminator.

And after all, Indiana did produce Kurt Vonnegut and Eugene Debs, two of the greatest progressives ever.

The Debs quote that still gives me chills (he said this as he was going to prison for resisting WWI).

"Your Honor, years ago I recognized my kinship with all living beings, and I made up my mind that I was not one bit better than the meanest on earth. I said then, and I say now, that while there is a lower class, I am in it, and while there is a criminal element I am of it, and while there is a soul in prison, I am not free."

More Christ-like than anything that has ever come out of the mouth of a member of the religious right.

The red/blue maps are a lie. We have to get away from that view. It gets us nowhere fast. If we buy into their view that citizens in the heartland are all Republican, we just advance their cause, and alienate many potential Democratic voters. My elderly uncle was gleefully passing out "Unions Support Kerry" stickers during the last election. Many would dismiss poeople like him because he doesn't look like the stereotypical progressive, and that's a BIG mistake. Looking down our noses at entire populations just because they voted for Bush (usually by slim majorities, if they were even legitimate) is political suicide.

hyperbolic as it may come off in my post. I did my undergraduate work in Norman, Oklahoma, a town I still dearly love. But one of the reasons I was hoping to go to grad school was because the conservative politics of the non-norman were irritating, and the outlook for us career wise was not positive in such a place. So that's where the comparisons were coming from. One of the things that bothered me about central Oklahoma, for example, was the media environment, as it is dominated by a statewide newspaper with a national reputation for (a) poor journalistic ethics and (b) a pronounced conservative bias, much like the Star.

I don't know much about Bloomington, really, but from what I know of Indiana I think there are many similarities (some good some bad) between the two states as a whole ...

It's a lovely little town, really. Our city council voted not to enforce the Patriot Act!

Rolling hills, limestone quarries, and farmers with anti-war signs posted on their rickety old fences. :-)

Here is the courthouse, (a fine example of the local limestone architecture) where I joined the anti-war protests every Wednesday for a year, next to Vietnam vets and patriotic blue-haired ladies.



Shoot me an email if you will be passing through.

I'm not that far away, actually (wound up doing graduate work at Illinois), and I hope to visit Bloomington before I leave here, since I'm a fan of college towns generally. :hi:

Shoot me an email if you will be passing through.
will do :)

to a student that exposed Bobby Knight's terrorism recorded on video, and have campus wide rally's to support that Napoleonic tyrant?

I lost all respect for IU when that happened, and my daughter will not be going there.

pharmacy program

She currently works in a pharmacy while in high school

MA (where we live) has a policy that if our state's flagship public university, UMASS, does not offer the program that the student wishes to major in then if that program is offered at URI or UCONN (or the other New England states)you can attend that school at UMASS resident prices.

The hitch seems to be location and she is looking at private schools but she is using politics as one of her criteria to narrow her choices

has an EXCELLENT pharm school, our of state tuition isn't horrible. lots of progressive clubs.... Overall, this area wemt HEAVILY for Kerry/Edwards.


The Young Democrats are EXTREMELY active here=some might argue that they're the movers/shakers of campus politics.

Sorry for babbling- long day!

went for Kucinich for the primary.

don't recall the general election for the country, since the state failed and only ohio really mattered afterall...

dp

... top-ranked Pharmacology programs. But I guess I don't get it. Pharmacology is a graduate curriculum unless she's interested only in a certification for a para-professional role. I believe a Chemistry (organic emphasis) undergraduate degree would be appropriate preparation for a pharmacology graduate degree.

When she says "city" is she considering what that might mean in terms of costs and lifestyle? DOes she mean 'city' as in New York City or Boston? I personally have a great deal of respect for Georgetown - and Washington is about as much 'city' as you can get.

I'm inclined to sympathize with her sociopolitical preferences - not necessarily because of contact with the locals ('townies') but because of the attitudes and orientations of the students and faculty. It's pretty clear that fundie kids can be a pain to socialize with ... and I sure wouldn't be interested in Texas A&M (for example). It's true that colleges and universities (except for notables like BYU and Bob Jones) tend to be more liberal than the environs ... but that doesn't mean 'red' area schools aren't more conservadroid overrun than 'blue' area schools. They are.

pharmacy

She knows that the undergrad is different from the post grad but some schools immediately gear you toward the post grad with the way the pharmacy undergrad is set-up.

One of the pharmacists where she is working told her to avoid big "name"pharmacy"colleges - that pharmacist is still paying off her student loan from Mass College of Pharmacy. She told my daughter about the UMASS program swop with other state colleges(as far as she knows strictly reciprocal with only New England states)She said she wished her guidance counselor had told her about it when she was young.

We have to see if that "reciprocal"agreement extends outside of New England

As far as cities goes she wants access to a city at least by public transportation and doesn't want a rural environment.

... is probably because they're the Happy Hunting Grounds for the pharmaceutical industry, attracting grads with enticements of big salaries and research careers. (I once had a good friend who was a PhD Pharmacology grad at the University of Michigan. He went to Pfizer, predominantly because he was passionate about the research side.) As such, the student "peer group" would be strongly biased towards corporatism, making the "different drummer" students feel like fish out of water. If a student can go into such an environment and maintain their own counsel, this need not be a downside. It depends on the emotional maturity of the student, I think.

and has been accepted to the University of Texas.
She also will be going to pharmacy school.
:thumbsup:

I wish her much success

It took me awhile to steer her in that direction. She is, after all, her mother's daughter.;)

Rutgers supposedly has a very good pharmacy program... and, from being at UConn, I know they have a good pharmacy program as well. Though, UConn may be a bit too remote for her (30 minutes from Hartford, 75 from Boston)

Why just private colleges?

the other New England states that if the flagship state U (in this case UMASS) does not offer your chosen major as a program offering then the student can attend other New England state U's at UMASS prices for resident

In this case UCONN is in the running and and also URI and we are trying to determine if this reciprocal agreement extends to other state schools

Plus she is considering private schools

Pharmacy is not offered as a major at UMASS

The biotech research industry is big here. We have great med schools too.

Not all of the midwest is fundy central. Wisconsin went blue didn't it. anyways your daughter should look at the university of wisconsin eau claire where I live.

University of Texas, for one.

great blue towns even if they are in red states.
University of Kansas in Lawrence is one.

Athens, OH.

Good School in a beautiful area, liberals run wild but they mix w/ good old boys too.

It's bottom-ranked - absolute bottom-most. 84th out of 84. :shrug:

It used to have good physical and life science depts. Which could provide the needed background
for grad degree in pharmacy. I don't believe it has a pharmacy program.

and if I remember the recreational "self guided" pharmacy program was one of the best
in the country.

... had mostly an agrarian emphasis. As such, however, I recall it was lauded by many. :silly:

.... in do it yourself pharmacology.

Cross Country skiing out on peach ridge road w/ some locals and some students after
spending time 'round the bonfire in Jan of 81 ....... I knew then that I was going to be a
liberal for life.

especially the college areas.

Austin, Texas, for example is very liberal.

However, if she wants LIBERAL!!!! Tell her to go to school in Portland, OR!!!! A few weeks before the election in 2004, the counter culture newspaper began an article something like this: "The only political debate in Portland is whether Bush is merely incompetent or if he is an alien placed here to destroy the earth."

A good friend's daughter goes there, loves it. She is thrilled to be out of red state Okie hell.

also home of UNC-Asheville, a very liberal town.

dp

before I would base it on the "color" of the state. Of course the midwest has some great liberal colleges. Such as the University of Wisconsin at Madison. Michigan is rather purple but there are great schools there too. I think that she should figure out what she wants to do then pick a school based upon that. Don't rule out schools just because they are in a red state. Good Luck with your/her decision.

I would highly recommend Univeristy of Michigan, Ann Arbor. Blue city, in a blue state with a Democratic governor.

Also, for fun, University of Illinois. Blue city, blue state, Dem. gov, dem-dominated legislature.

I have to disagree in one small respect about UW Madison.

Wisconsin *used* to be progressive and wonderfully blue.

But former gov. Tommy Thompson did some serious damage ... and the GOP dominated legislature is fast turning Wisconsin into GOP whack job heaven.

Plus, Dane County (around Madison) is shockingly conservative. Tammy Baldwin, the wonderful lesbian congresswoman, has had the political fight of her life in two consecutive races because of right wingers who drew considerable support.

I wouldn't recommend UW, unless your daughter like to binge drink.

Some of these have been mentioned:

Madison, WI
Columbia, MO
Athens, OH
Iowa City, IA
Bowling Green, KY
Oberlin, OH
Yellow Springs, OH

Many, many more; this is a good start..

Proud Antioch alumna here. :hi:

That being said, Ohio is awfully red outside of the scattered blue zones, and if I were her--i.e. a young woman of the most fertile age--I would be wary of going to a place where reproductive choice seemed at all tenuous. Antioch and Oberlin are both good places where feminist activism is appreciated, though.

I haven't been to Yellow Springs in years, though; I hope it's as progressive as ever..

to family planning services, including abortion, and where she wouldn't be surrounded by Christofacists who might invade the campus and shut down certain classes now that they feel empowered.

Universities might get off their goddamned tenure-lazy asses and DO something if masses of students decide to choose other universities in blue states.

I'm a student there...right here in the heart of Detroit. Liberal as hell, and no place like it on earth. Of course, I'm a bit biased.
We have an awesome pharmacy school. I'm pretty sure only U of M's would be better in the state.
Crazy cool beat culture around the campus too.

... of WSU's curriculum. It is, however, a difficult school for out-of-staters to attend given the lack of University housing and the urban island it occupies. Clearly, Wayne is strongest in its all-things-medical curricula, including pharmacology in which it ranks right up there with the more prestigious schools.

Three new dorm buildings. The people I know who live there seem to like them. They just built them...I think 3 years ago?
Nice to meet a fellow Wayne Stater!

Very multicultural here, massess of people from all over the world but esp. Asia. Plenty of Yanks here too... in fact there are multiple unis here in Sydney, but Usyd the one for a thorough BPharm, unforunately there RW party controls both houses of national gov. but at least they are the more old-style ie. not foaming at the mouth RWingers. Now I think about it Aust politics are not nearly so angry as Yankish.
I'm at Usyd myself... its a good place & it's an opportunity to travel.
http://www.usyd.edu.au/

and the best food and music on the continent. Free-thinkers need only apply. ;)

Wish I'd gone to school down there!

A couple of Walgreen pharmacists in Illinois refused to fill a morning-after prescription. Walgreens had to "fire" them, but said they could work at their Missouri stores (sigh).

...where it's illegal to discriminate on basis of sexual orientation. Blago has problems, but I was proud of him for signing that one enthusiastically.

Tell her to check out the University of Oregon in very liberal Eugene, Oregon.

I also think it's very sad that it has come to this, but I would think twice about going down to Dumbfuckistan to live nowadays.

Whatever the final results of the Loss of the Constitution and post-WWII Free America, you can bet the most brutal and murderous of them will be in Deep Dumbfuckistan.

Your daughter is wise beyond her years. Let her stay in the few remaining parts of the country that have majorities of Free Americans rather than Imperial Subjects.

Legislation proposed by one idiot in the General Assembly. The University of Missouri is actually a fine school, located in a very blue community. Yes, there are parts of the state that are deep red, generally in the south and southwest. But the I-70 corridor is quite blue, and a great place to live.

One thing that those articles about that legislation fail to state is that it is hung up in committee, with no hearings scheduled, doomed to die a quite death at the end of the legislative session.

Judging a whole state by one crackpot politician, or by how the state voted in the last election, is rather shallow and dismisses the reality of what is going on here. So come on down to Columbia for a visit, hit the Peace Nook, or join in on our twice a week demonstrations. Rest secure in the knowledge that if your daughter gets busted for dope, she is going to get a misdemeanor and it will no effect her student loan status. Come to a city with parks and trails and beautiful scenery.

But don't judge us all by one crackpot politician. If you do that, you will have to rule out virtually every state, for they all have their fairshare of crackpots in the legislature.

Just look at this billboard between KC and Columbia

I think that if you went out and got to know people, especially out in the rural areas, you would be quite suprised. I live in rural Mid Mo, and over half of my neighbors didn't and won't vote 'Pug for a good long while. Remember, the vote split here was only a 2% toss, and many, many of those folks are regretting their decision already.

About the only real bright red area of the state is Springfield and surrounding area. The rest of the state is various shades of purple.

they withdrew their endorsement of Baby Blunt

She is too young to be parochial in her choices. Sometimes it is easier to be true blue whilst surrounded by red. If she likes to talk politics, she should be someplace where there's something to talk about.

UNCH
UNCA
APP STATE
UNCW

all come to mind as fine liberal arts schools in nice towns.

;-)

Very liberal, progressive town. She should consider it, definitely.

:)

I would say Wisconsin,Minn,Northern Illinois, Michigan, the Dakotas are

Upper Mid West(in fact I do say so and so do my friends)

We characterize the mid west as being MO,IO,NE, Southern Ill, Kansas

West starts in Colorado for New Englanders(actually West starts once you leave New England)



:)

though we also think of it as just plain "midwest". I know people who refer to anything east of Illinois as "back east" - including members of my family which has been in Minnesota since 1857. When I was a kid my dad was transferred to Buffalo, NY and when we'd come back here for vacation I'd sometimes get introduced as "my cousin, niece etc.. from back east". That always sounds to me like the speaker just arrived here in their covered wagon looking for a homestead.

Champaign-Urbana is a great college town. I've lived my entire life in central Illinois, and there's more to my state than Chicago! It's a nice place to be. My area is generally moderate, but C-U is a liberal bastion.

Personally my finances couldn't touch one, especially not a 'major' university. I'm a Missourian and we aren't all crazy, don't let one loon state representative of my state whos bill isn't constitutional anyways deter you from an entire region of the country.

Your daughter should attend a school that is best for what she wants to do for a career and not worry so much about politics and red blue and all this crap, plenty of time to worry about that once she has a good job and is out in the world.

Is she looking at anything in your home state? It would probably be more affordable.

MA has a reciprocal agreement with at least
the other New England states that if the flagship state U (in this case UMASS) does not offer your chosen major as a program offering then the student can attend other New England state U's at UMASS prices for resident

In this case UCONN is in the running and and also URI and we are trying to determine if this reciprocal agreement extends to other state schools

Plus she is considering private schools

Pharmacy is not offered as a major at UMASS

surely they have pharmacy programs.

Frankly, if I were her, I would get an undergrad degree in something else, and make sure I had the pre-reqs for pharmacy. you have to go to grad school anyway, right? Don't go in knowing what to study, find it while you are there and taking the classes you need. Don't look at undergrad as a trade school, but rather as a place to learn, and do, things you will never again have the chance to do. just a thought.

or the rural/city thing she also has strong ideas about

I know that if a student were interested in "turf management" say for a golf course UMASS and UME are the only schools in New England state U system offering this program


Perhaps they do this deliberately to avoid the duplication of staff and competing for the same students - who knows?

I know of 10 students that have taken advantage of this reciprocal agreement but we had to search them out(different majors)

It is not well known

UConn's not in much of a town either, and Burlington is fabulous, and a great place to be a student, I hear. (bias: I was in Waterville, ME, si I favour the smaller places, I guess)

just because she's surrounded by "morans." They are everywhere. Indiana University is a great school settled well within a very red state. That particular county is typically blue come election time. :shrug:

Liberal arts college and close to the beaches but far enought inland to not to be affected by the hurricanes.

Tallahasse is a fun progressive city in a sea of red.

...are all very good universities in the state of Virginia.

Most universities, with the exception of the military academies and schools that are religion-based, are going to be the focal points of pockets that I describe as enlightened thinking. However, your daughter is smart to include existing state laws and the potential for additional restrictive laws into consideration.

and Michigan, very liberal campuses - she shouldn't discount them all because of politics :shrug:

My daughter attends a university in Virginia and she's quite liberal (and it's a conservative sort of university). She absolutely loves it there.

If she *seriously* rules out a single university because of a law or bill on the books, tell her to use her power and take a minute to inform the university that *this* is why she is not applying to that university.

Many universities are almost desperate for students, caring very much why they are getting and losing the students they do. She has a great deal of power, in that respect, which she'll never have again as someone shopping for schools. Have her do a little activism.

After all - this kind of boycott really doesn't do much good unless they know you're boycotting them.

There are many liberal oriented colleges and universities in the Midwest. I grew up in one Midwest state and went to college in another. The Eastern colleges that I visited actually seemed more conservative than the Midwest schools I visited.

UM in Columbia is a good place to be. Progressive community.

She'll probably have to take Organic lecture and lab courses, almost certainly through the Chem Dept, not the Pharmacy School/Dept.

As for the Red/Blue thing, I can't think of any really well-recognized Chemistry Depts in red states. Maybe it's that fundie anti-science inclination -- faculty who are good at their science avoid these places like the plague, so they end up without good science depts. I grew up in the South, and when I started to look at schools with good chemistry, or at least science, programs, I saw two choices: California or New England. Since then I've learned that there are some VERY good chemistry programs at some universities that do not have as much 'name' recognition with the general public. Two have been mentioned already: Wisconsin/Madison and Michigan/Ann Arbor, with UWM undoubtedly getting the higher ranking. If there are any in the South, I'm sure they're private schools (Emory for example), but private schools in the South tend to be denominational schools (Emory is Methodist, IIRC).

If she's not concerned about getting into the absolute *top-rated* school (and she probably shouldn't be), just about any state school in NE/NY should be a good choice. Not worth travelling far from home for minor perceived differences.

College towns tend to be pretty liberal. Madison, Urbana-Champaign, Ann Arbor, Minneapolis would all be great; I'm sure there are many others in the midwest like them.

(based on his experience; BS in 1990 from a prestige university)

he contends the best and most cost-effective plan is

--go to the least expensive, best college/university closest to you

--work very hard

--THEN choose prestige schools for grad work and take advantage of teaching and research assistant grad positions

*****

my comment as a parent, a former undergrad and grad student, and a former college teacher....

....don't choose a school solely on the basis of what you plan to major in ...... many students change majors at least once.....my son (we found out a few years later) was known in his dorm in the fall of his junior year as 'the student most likely to change majors this week'

writing about has wanted to be in the medical field since kindergarten;since working in the pharmacy which she loves she is determined to do this

The younger one is different and will undoubtedly approach the whole college thing differently

Going into huge debt for undergrad work is a terrible idea --

And for many majors, I wouldn't recommend paying a dime for grad work either: make them pay YOU.

I went to a liberal college in a red state. And I live in a VERY liberal town now, but the college here happens to be rather conservative.

She'll spend 90% her time on campus, anyway...

Las Cruces....great weather, a mid-sized school with lots of research dollars....a land grant institution, like parts of Cornell

Very nice small city, lots of folks from both coasts plus everthing in between, not to mention those of Native American and Spanish descent. Lots of music, art and great food and scenery!

If your daughter is interested in research -- Olemiss has one of the top five rated programs in the country (graduate). The undergraduate premed/prepharm program also has one of the highest med school acceptance rates for any public university.

The school as a whole is recongized for having a top ranked undergraduate honor's program, is tied for the most Rhode's scholars of any public university, has a Phi Beta Kappa chapter, SEC sports, etc.

The town is liberal, the student body is split politically.

Finally, its fairly inexpensive -- about 8k/yr for out of state tuition, and significant scholarships starting with an ACT of 24 or higher. Without a doubt, its different than a lot of schools she may look at. With only 8k undergrads, its smaller than many mentioned and can feel like a small liberal arts school -- most of my classes were taught by professors, with few lectures. Conversely, its large enough to provide many ammenities only seen at schools with 30-40k students.

Good luck wherever she goes.

People will always tell you how how North Carolina's changing or that there are progressive pockets of North Carolina, blah, blah, blah.

DON'T BELIEVE THEM. My whole family lives there these days (research triangle- my brother in law teaches chemistry at NC State) and every time I go there, I hear things from supposedly educated people that just make my jaw drop.

UNC Chapel Hill ain't no better. While some areas of NC are worse than others, the whole state is chock full of fundies.

California, Oregon and Washington all have excellent schools, cool cities, abundant natural beauty and mild climates. If I were her, that's where I'd be.

Actually, that's where I am- ;-)

I go to the University of Illinois. Champaign-Urbana is liberal, the campus is quite liberal, it's a good school and the social life is vibrant.

Michigan, Wisconsin, Northwestern, Minnesota, Iowa, Purdue, and even Indiana are good schools in liberal towns.

Need I remind you that Illinois was one of the bluest states in the country? Both U of I in Urbana or any Chicago school would have a progressive atmosphere. Michigan, Wisconsin, and Minnesota are also blue. Why the Midwest hate? I don't get it.

Not to mention that red/blue is a false argument to begin with. Every state has some red and some blue. There are as many inbred hicks in California and Illinois and New York as there are in Alabama.

This is a very poorly-thought out way to pick a school. She needs to look at schools she likes based on academic quality and cost and narrow it down from there - ie, does she want to live in a city, or a traditional college town like Champaign-Urbana or Madison?

Best of luck, but please do tell her this is a very poor way to pick a school.

University of Washington, Reed College, Lewis & Clark, and Evergreen University are good liberal schools.

She could try to make a difference in a conservative atmosphere, but finding a nurturing environment that will help her develop connections and her liberal outlook would assist her to fight conservatism in the future. (if that's what she wants to do).

I remember choosing colleges and thinking that politics didn't matter. It does matter. First of all, where does she want her hard earned student loan dollars ;) to go? Does she want to support a student body that supports stupid political ideas? Second, she's going away to college and deserves the room to have fun and learn. Thanks to the liberal invention of the internets :), she can still fight the good fight without enrolling as a token liberal/ martyr at Liberty "University" (as others on this thread seem to think is advisable).