Dobson makes role of women clear

http://community.livejournal.com/dark_christian/

(this site and http://www.talk2action.org are excellent sites to monitor the religious right)

FotF Knocks It Up a Notch

Focus on the Family advocates returning women to their "traditional" niche:


" Patterson said the account of creation illustrates clearly defined roles for men and women. The first responsibility for man in the account, she said, was to tend the garden God had created... But the greatest responsibility given to man was that of spiritual leadership. In the same way, she said, "my husband is to be the leader of my home..."

Women are given a different role than men in society, Patterson said. That role has "nothing to do with gifts or intelligence." She is to be a "helper" to her husband, she said, even though she is created equal to him...

Those who try to change God's plan follow the familiar path of deception displayed by the serpent in Genesis, she said. They assume that their plan is better and they contradict God. Still, the plan for the home remains the same as it was in the Bible, she added.

Dobson said he chose Patterson’s address for the broadcast because she well articulated the same principles he has been advocating his entire career. He said his goal in life has been to combat the "radical feminist distortions" about marriage, the family, and the role of women in society. While the radical feminist movement no longer exists, he said, the ideas it promoted so permeated American society that they have influenced modern Christian culture."

Full Spew

How long, I wonder, before we see House and Senate resolutions "glorifying" the relegation of women to the home?

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I didn't think so.

who was the mastermind behind the September 11th attacks.

and the rest of the cabal don't give a damn.

n/t

full-time mother and wife and look good doing it... That is the mantra for women today.. We think we have the freedom but yet we have to do alot more than ever....

Most of the women I know are about to fall over from exhaustion. There is absolutely not an hour in the day that they are not working!

And you are exhausted but still have some things that need doing, not to mention your husband is asking for a little attention.... We all are just wonder women, aren't we?

check my email and whatnot and it is after 9 pm, I still have dishes to clean and dinner to eat and work to do and I am absolutely exhausted...

You can have it all--as long as you are willing to suffer for it.

Life is balls...

The argument here isn't that "they can't" it's that "they shouldn't!"

Didn't you hear about the quote from Santorum's book, the problem in America today is that women have gone to work instead being happy staying home, like good mothers, and rasing their children!

I gotta tell ya, I believe I was a BETTER MOTHER having gone to work every day, and then working with my kids each night on their homework, taking them to sports, and attending EVERY PT conference there ever was.

I HATED staying home all the time an doing housework, and the kids are gone most of the day anyway!

I'd LOVE to take the Dobsons, Santorums, and anyone else that feels this way, and have THEM spend a month 24/7 with 2 or 3 young kids, and doing nothing else but housework. At the end of the month, I want to know if they changed their mind!

I have worked all my life and my son appreciates it. He knows how important women's contributions are and would never treat his wife this way. That's really all I cared about was communicating the worth of women to my son. I lived it and showed the capabilities of women to him every day.

I know many men who love this viewpoint of Dobson until they realize that they will have less money and more responsibility, then they are ok with their wife working, but they want the say-so in everything else. This is the issue that helped me leave all churches, if this is what God wants then I don't want him.

On Dobson, he is a simplistic opportunist and nothing more. His books are trash.

I'm not allowed to make my own choices and decisions. :eyes:

When my brother and I got in late high school she started just working because she was so bored and liked having extra money.

do ANY of these dipshits actually READ the fucking bible?????

God lied

The snake didn't

you fucking illiterates

are of the same lineage of parasites, i.e. TENT REVIVAL HUCKSTERS, who made a perverted interpretation of the Bible to fit their own hate filled, ignorant agenda.

:puke:

and where and how God lied and the serpent did not???

This could be interesting...remember...humans DO die...

sP

the serpent says to Eve "don't listen to that shit, if you eat this, you'll be like the gods, knowing good & evil"

She eats

God says "WTF? She ate the fruit, and now knows good & evil just like the gods!"

only then does God mention "living forever" and that's only as a fear of his, if A&E were to eat from the tree of life. Thus, they were already mortal when created, so that "on that day you shall surely die" doesn't mean they will become mortal

your understanding of the scripture you quote is lacking. If you cannot see the meaning here, then talking it out with you will not be worth the time. I will grant that you may not have a judeo/christian background upon which to rely (and you might and just be being intentionally difficult) and then...well, read a commentary or take a theology class...there is MUCH more here than the literal death that we experience...

sP

your post said absolutely nothing to refute my interpretation.

Take a class? Please.... where in the Bible does it say you need a class in order to read it?

Also, please share your acumen by showing me exactly where the serpent lied in that story.

I'm not being difficult, I'm reading the book and telling you what it says

prove me wrong

and I don't think there was a literal garden (please understand ALL of this is interpretation as is anyone's take). And I don't think you NEED to take a class, but it would be helpful in seeing some of the imagery for what it probably is.

The eating of the fruit is the issue...it is a disobeying of God's rules for living, naturally symbolizing sin in human lives. The fact that Eve and Adam take of the fruit despite the law God set before them is them choosing a rebellious life. By making the choice to disobey God, they chose death (sin is frequently described in the scripture as death and eternal damnation...also sometimes seen as a separation from God). God did not 'lie' to them according to what happens. They were designed to be (if you believe such things) in relationship with God, and by choosing sin and separation from God death became part of the human condition...spiritual death in the separation from God. Some people would also argue that man and woman were meant to live forever before the taking of the fruit, but I don't subscribe to that. I simply believe that the soul is meant to last forever...

I don't think you are being difficult for anything more than to make a point...and a good one. But God did not lie...men die. And if you believe the scripture, a man who dies in unforgiven sin dies a second time in that his soul is separated from God. And did the serpent lie? Well, if he told the man (woman) that disobeying would not cause death, then yes, the serpent did lie.

OK, that is my plagarized (but agreed with) two cents.

Sorry to be combative...felt like that is where you were wanting to go and sometimes I am more than willing to oblige :evilgrin:

subjectProdigal

where in Genesis does it say that they were immortal before eating the fruit? The only mention of immortality is in reference to what would happen IF they ate from the Tree of Life.

The things you say are interesting, but it's simply filling in the blanks with an interpretation. I'm taking the words of the book at face value.

it's like God's own Scott McClellan, "clarifying" the places where God "mis-spoke"

so why should someone NOT take the imagery of the bible and interpret it? That it a little confusing. The written word is always interpreted...you even interpreted my meaning on certain things by reading between the words. To say you can only take the words at face value??? Doesn't that make you a fundy??? :-) Just poking at you, but most people interpret what is written there...and not just the literal words.

Yes, fundies might have a hard time answering this given there view of the literalness of scripture...but then-again, they only take literally the points they like. The rest is open to interpretation.

subjectProdigal

Clearly, before eating of the tree of good and evil they could not have known good and evil. So how could they be expected to know that it was wrong to eat from this tree? The concept of ethically "wrong" wouldn't have meant anything to them at that stage.

It would be like punishing a newborn for disturbing the peace by crying.

:eyes:

the answer is: the book was written by primitive bronze-age nomads with only a passing familiarity with logic :)

I guess my irony meter was busted. And your answer is as good as it gets.:toast:

they did not 'know' good from evil in their 'pristine' state. They were to take the word of God for good...they knew not to eat of the tree because they were told not to. But that opens a whole separate can of worms.

subjectProdigal

How could they know it was wrong to do something God said not to do? I just don't see how that circle can be squared. Like you say, another can of worms.

Setting that aside, I do think the Garden of Eden story has a lot of mythological insight about the idea of "loss of innocence", which is something all humans experience during their growth and development. Like most mythology, though, it isn't strictly logical and it is difficult to satisfactorily interpret ethically.

regarding your question, and the issue of God's "mis-statements", al the answers are found in that one post :)

they were already mortal, since they hadn't eaten from the Tree of Life

And if these illiterates DID read the bible, they'd realize that Knowledge of Good and Evil is morality. So according to these morons, women are evil for listening to someone who told the truth, and for bringing morality to the world.

Remedial Reading Comprehension classes anyone?

Sigh.

I just want them to keep their religion out of my science.

Under that same sentiment, wasn't the deal also that the man gives unto her, as Christ did the church, ultimately dying for her?

Okay...groovy. Men, turn out your pockets, and hand the BMW keys over to your wife. All hers. Credit cards, too. C'mon...she's the "little helper" isn't she? Oh, now, since you'll love and defend her as Christ did the church, get up, stand up, fight for her rights to make her CHOICEs and decisions. But, then, hey...you're the "leader" of the home, right?

Maybe I have it wrong. Or maybe that's how someone needs to flip the script on this type of bs.

the idea is/was that a woman COULD be a helper to her husband and be SAFE being that if the man was being for her what Christ was for the church. But given the way most men lead their lives, I can certainly see where ANY woman would have a problem living that life...

sP

while I'm shitting in his face!! :evilgrin:

I read about it somewhere.

Now "scat"!

"despicable" by former Surgeon General Everett Koop (who himself is a Christian believer).

It's just doing terrible work.

Someday i will write a series of some the god-awful things i found in their magazine. Including the promotion of telephoning abortion providers (so they will be terrified to answer the phone) and that finding out your child is gay is worse than hearing of his death.

Not "women returning ..." (i.e., by their choice) but "returning women ..." (i.e., DOBSON'S choice).

Very telling, that little distinction. Bastards.

Bake

(And there was no need for sex), just in what way was she meant to be a "helper"?

:silly:

Or was that Ted Bundy. One of the two.

not get her name) on NPR a few days ago, who went to a Bible study with her priest. When she got to Revelations, she freaked. I have to go back and read it. I did sound frightening. She was already spooked by the Epistles. The trouble is that the Fundies only use what they want and ignore the rest.

I was going to say, 'Hey, I got that email from Dobson!'

I subscribe to Citizenlink for the laughs (or sometimes you feel like crying, but you laugh anyway).

I was shocked when I read your post.

I'm going to quote in a post to illustrate how sexist his gang is on our website (my friends and I have one for spiritual progressive women).

Here's what I received:

**Quote**
The United States is just one nation concerned about this
week's United Nations Commission on the Status of Women
and how it will seek to achieve its goals of enhancing the
participation of women in government.

Of chief concern are quotas some countries have adopted
for women in government, which Focus on the Family United
Nations representative Thomas Jacobson called a misguided,
unsustainable and harmful policy.

"No nation has been able to achieve parity of women in
leadership and the workforce without government mandates,"
he said, "because such a policy is contrary to nature, the
natural family and the true desires and passions of most
women."

Australia has reported modest success with its voluntary
measures to bring women into leadership.

"Governments that have tried to implement parity
voluntarily," he said, "have found most women
uncooperative because their hearts are with their
families."
***Endquote**

(From the March 6th 'CitizenLink' email.)

I guess according to Dobson I serve no purpose and shouldn't exist? Do sisters also only exist to help their male siblings?

Sorry, couldn't help it.

Keep on rockin' your single self!

}(

I can't believe I said that!!! O8)

Pussies are good, warm, loving things that bring happiness.

Dobson has a teenie weenie peenie and he's understandably upset about it.

You read it here first! :evilgrin:

:evilgrin:

depth is a good dimension! :thumbsup:

:silly:

I'm a stay-at-home mom. I left my career when my kids were young. To me, staying at home doesn't mean I'm following Dobson's twisted path of motherhood/wifehood. I'm simply raising my youngesters to be fine young progressives. They're both well aware that Mom had a career before they came along and that I'll likely pick it back up when they are a bit older.

I'd love to see society try to live without women in the workforce. Ain't gonna happen.

I did do weekend relief work, for a while, at a group home, and went to a very lackadaisical graduate program, but, largely, I've stayed at home.

I would rather not have to get a job, because I am a FLANEUR, and spend my days doing wonderful things -- writing, cooking, taking care of and playing with my son -- and going out of my way to do many of the things that make me a better citizen. Jobs are for suckers. ;)

That said, I will have to get a part-time job to pay the bills, after my fellowship is over. But, my kid will be in school full-time -- so what's the big deal?

Anyway, it's all about your choice. Believe me, I'm not doing Dobson's work by staying home. I, too, am raising a little progressive (tho a libertarian socialist), and we're taking all the time we can to be smart, and speak out, and learn what we can.

let my wonderful hubby make 100,00 a year and I would happily stay home!


I like teaching, but heck I love sleeping and a clean house more.

If I didn't have to work mr. dobson, I could make love to my husband every night and rest up while he and the kiddo's were at school and work.


I would have more time to write that book that is in my head. Heck, I could even volunteer at church.

our young children about lesbianism and withcraft? :rofl:

Dobson is such a fucking tool.

Such a belief completely validates his entire pathetic existence.

mission accomplished :rofl::rofl:

Maybe dobson should have a banner printed out too



:rofl:

"If a woman has come to believe that divorce is the answer to every difficult marriage, that career comes before children ... no democratic government can impose another set of values upon her." (Pat Buchanan, Right from the Beginning, p. 341)

"Rail as they will about 'discrimination,' women are simply not endowed by nature with the same measures of single-minded ambition and the will to succeed in the fiercely competitive world of Western capitalism." (Pat Buchanan, syndicated column, 11/22/83)

"The real liberators of American women were not the feminist noise-makers, they were the automobile, the supermarket, the shopping center, the dishwasher, the washer-dryer, the freezer." (Pat Buchanan, Right from the Beginning, p. 149)"

"Most of these feminists are radical, frustrated lesbians, many of them, and man-haters, and failures in their relationships with men, and who have declared war on the male gender. The Biblical condemnation of feminism has to do with its radical philosophy and goals. That's the bottom line." (Jerry Falwell)

"Feminism was established to allow unattractive women easier access to the mainstream of society." (Rush Limbaugh, "The Way Things Ought to Be" (1994 edition)

"Nothing about contraception should be taught in schools. There is no question that it will encourage sexual activity." (Phyllis Schlafly, New York Times, 10/17/92)

"You can't get into negotiations with the feminists because you will lose. They will slit your throat. They have no sense of fair play or compromise." (Phyllis Schlafly, National Affairs Briefing, 8/92)

“Nature doth paint them further to be weak, frail, impatient, feeble and foolish; and experience hath declared them to be unconstant, variable, cruel, and lacking the spirit of counsel.” (John Knox, Scottish Presbyterian leader. From title of pamphlet The First Blast of the Trumpet Against the Monstrous Regiment of Women, 1558.

" feminist agenda is not about equal rights for women. It is about a socialist, anti-family political movement that encourages women to leave their husbands, kill their children, practice witchcraft, destroy capitalism and become lesbians." (Fundraising letter from Pat Robertson that was an in-kind contribution to the Iowa Committee to Stop ERA, as reported in The Washington Post, August 23, 1993)

"I know this is painful for the ladies to hear, but if you get married, you have accepted the headship of a man, your husband. Christ is the head of the household and the husband is the head of the wife, and that's the way it is, period." (Federal News Service, Sept. 11, 1992, quoting a Robertson newsletter.)

"Why are so many marriages falling apart? Why is the divorce rate so high? ...Why is there such a tragedy in marriage?...Now the basic answer to the basic
"(Robertson) chastised women legislators who support no-fault divorce laws that he says encourage men to split. 'Any woman who votes for no-fault divorce is like a turkey voting for Thanksgiving,' Robertson said, paraphrasing a conservative commentator." (The State-Record, Columbia, SC,June 28, 1992)

"The Devil can so completely assume the human form, when he wants to deceive us, that we may well lie with what seems to be a woman, of real flesh and blood, and yet all the while 'tis only the Devil in the shape of a woman. 'Tis the same with women, who may think that a man is in bed with them, yet 'tis only the Devil; and...the result of this connection is oftentimes an imp of darkness, half mortal, half devil...." (Martin Luther)

"The key in terms of mental ability is chess. There's never been a woman Grand Master chess player. Once you get one, then I'll buy some of the feminism..." (Pat Robertson)

"All wickedness is but little to the wickedness of a woman." (Apocrypha. Ecclesiasticus 7:26)

"Women...have but small and narrow chests, and broad hips, to the end that they should remain at home, sit still, keep house, and bear and bring up children." (Martin Luther)

"To promote a woman to bear rule, superiority, dominion or empire, above any realm, nation, or city, is repugnant to nature; contumely to God, a thing most contrarious to his revealed will and approved ordinance, and finally it is the subversion of good order, of all equity and justice." (John Knox, Scottish Presbyterian leader. First Blast of the Trumpet Against the Monstrous Regiment of Women-pamphlet published 1558, the first year of Elizabeth I’s reign.

"Most of these feminists are radical, frustrated lesbians, many of them, and man-haters, and failures in their relationships with men, and who have declared war on the male gender. The Biblical condemnation of feminism has to do with its radical philosophy and goals. That's the bottom line." (Jerry Falwell)

,...intimidated rather than strengthened by the powers of women.

GET OVER IT!!!!

What's important is that, as partners, we can strengthen one another through hard times,...the inevitable hardships none of us escape.

We are in this "life" together, whether we like it or not. Might as well make the best of it, together.

Doncha' think?

"Hey, woman! Bring me a beer!"


ooof.


It's amazing some of mankind evolved past Neanderthals.

Stifle your desires and intelligence and submit to your man, for you are nothing but his servant and baby-manufacturer.

:P

:P

that he and his ilk will say these things and at the same time support policies that make it nearly impossible for most men to make enough money to support a stay-at-home wife, even if she wanted to.

I made this comment to a fundie type once and they told me that people just want too many things. So in other words, we're all to stay home in poverty while our husbands slave away for peanuts. :eyes:

of tax payers and slave labor just so republican men can control their women. Plus the guys would have to work two jobs. Republican men may want to control their women but I don't think they want to give up that extra paycheck.

It's amazing how Christians use religion to try to keep half the population oppressed.

We're just walking incubators. Keep us barefoot. Make sure we know our place. Beat us to keep us in line if you have to.

Sheesh. How much more will women take, especially the right wing women, before they realize we're being burqua-ed back to the stone age?

and the choice for a man that God created was James Dobson, I sure as hell would be looking for a serpent too.

....our country today? NOT IN THIS LIFETIME :wtf: :grr: :nuke: :puke:

and then their other policies support systems, such as anti-union, offshoring, outsourcing etc., which are partially responsible for the LACK of good, lifetime jobs for the traditional "father," which means the mother HAS to go to work. They won't put their money where their bullshit is.

Every Republican running for office should have to respond to this statement. Let's get everyone on record. The relevance is clear: Dobson is the leader of an organization that puts its support behind political candidates (all of them extreme republicans that I know of). If the Repubs are going to try to benefit from his support, then they need to pay the consequences...Repubs have for too long enjoyed and reaped the benefits of the support from these extreme Christan fundamentalists (ECFs) without having to shoulder any consequences of the relationship.

I think we could really draw the lines here to distinguish and bring attention to the fact that there are many Christians who do not share these views. The Dems can easily paint themselves as religious-friendly, while at the same time pointing out that the ECFs views are rooted in the dark ages and out of touch with the vast majority of good, clean living people of faith that make up our country.

SOmething that glorified the role of the Aryan Mother as homemaker?

got a ref?

sP

Teaches you how to beat your pet dachshund and child to break them in one easy lesson. Oh, and be sure to mix the pain with pleasure, and never use your hand to "spank." Hands are for love, belts are for pain.

I am not talking about what some twisted idiot says in his book on child-rearing (pun intended). You said Paul says it is ok to beat babies...I want that reference, chapter and verse, please. I have looked and cannot find one that says anything quite like that.

I will agree with you that there are many people out there who would say that a good beating is the best way to teach something, but I don't think Paul says beat your babies.

subjectProdigal

ON EDIT : I am so sorry...my reading comprehension is running low. I misread your post title and thought you were implying the BIBLE says that, but I forgot this thread was about Dobson (it has been going for a couple of days now). You are so right, Dobson is a nutjob on this one. Spanking children too young to understand what punishment even IS just torques me pretty badly... sP

The station shrugs and says "So? lots of our viewers LIKE him..."

This morning it was a minute on how un-married sex ALWAYS leads to Disease, and did you know "that 1 out of every 2 African Americans has Herpes"?

GAWD makes those rubbers break, y'know...
"Be not Deceived, GAWD is not Mocked..."

Time for another Exercise in Futility....

Whatever. Out here in the real world, things are different. No man is "leader of my home." We are partners and equals and I am the one who works full time! Go away crazies. You are pining for a world that never existed.