Jim Moran and Jack Murtha live on C-Span 2

to discuss Iraq war ....

Start off by saying that they have turned away 500 people because the crowd was too large. Acknowledges that they are now watching it on C-Span.

Peace.

:popcorn:

is unpatriotic. They are wrong. Big applause

quote from Moran

no booing and only 30 second statements. Too many people to let it go longer than that.

Take that Jean! :sarcasm:

What a resume!

:(

Something about his dad listening to Murtha but he won't?

President until ... The father certainly knew enough to call on him for advice.

Great line!

Please post if you are.

and no outfitted humvees.

112,000 people doing the wrong jobs. DAMN!

http://www.democracycellproject.net/blog/archives/2006/01/live_blogging_m.html

"It's time to let the Iraqi's take over and solve their own problems, like we did in the Revolutionary War." Murtha

mission has changed 6 or 7 times

We have become the enemy because of lack of training.

Talking about Abu Ghirab.

Telling about a soldier that had a court order against him from his family because of abuse and they stationed him there anyway.

$50,000 back log on equipment that they need and don't have.

Thank you, Rep. Murtha!:patriot: :patriot: :patriot:

Love Murtha. I'm so glad he's not afraid of these people.

:hug:

...love him. He has certainly been saying a lot of sensible things that take courage to say these days. But during the meeting he also said that destroying Falluja was necessary "to save the lives of American soldiers" and that he supported it. He did actually say, though I can't quote him word for word, that leveling the city was the correct thing to do - not just eliminating any insurgents there, for example. And he _knows_ about napalm/mark 77/white phosphorus - whatever you want to call the incendiary weapon we know was used on the population there.

So I'm not exactly extatic, though somewhat hopeful about Murtha.

They are opening up to him since they have heard what he has been saying.

the rest are Iraqi's.

That's staggering.

We're insisting they follow the law about Torture.

They must give us a report every 90 days, not full of rhetoric 'winning hearts and minds'

They are telling us 30-40% in US. He heard the real figure when he went there.

recruiting into the "security forces". Seems to be part of the plan. No jobs so they go into the police force or the military just to put food on their families. Then we leave them to rebuild it.

Notice that the worst IED's are always at recruitment centers? Like, today.

blivet** is drawing down without completeing the rebuilding job so he can send them elsewhere, isn't he? SHIT!

50,000!!

Can you imagine how many Iraqis will end up with PTSD? :cry: (my comment)

"Stay the course is not a policy" Murtha

because they are between "worlds"? God, forgive us. :cry:

:cry: The neoconsters are fucking KILLING the minds and hearts of their people AND OURS!! :cry:

I am sick of this shit. When are they going to be handcuffed!!!! :mad:

last year there was a solider from Texas who came back from Iraq and some how he got into a middle school girls bathroom and raped a girl there. :(

And Bush isn't doing anything for them apparently. :( They should use Bush's words against him:
"Victory means exit strategy, and it's important for the President to explain to us what the exit strategy is."
-Governor George W Bush (R-TX) (The only person who has so far used this quote is Walter Jones in the Hunter bill ordeal)

The soliders are going to need all the help they can get. :( I surely hope people are ready for it. I remember reading an article from ABC about PTSD with soliders and two families were interviewed/featured and one said the husband would fight with his wife out of nowhere, and the other couple the husband would be sleeping and in the middle of the night he would shake uncontrolably and he'd be dreaming of a bomb going off near by in his dreams. :( And also veterans from war are returning home to poverty too.

That's what he tells the Dem senators who want to run for president. "Show some leadership"

Step up or step off Dems. The time is NOW!

speak, that's for sure!

questions. Long after c-span packs up and goes home..

I would be in Iraq if I wasn't hurt ... moral of the troops is very high.

served in Afghanistan, would go to Iraq if not hurt. Says moral of troops is good, he resents Murtha saying it isn't.

We support our troops the best when we make sure they are being used correctly.
We left the job in Afghanistan unfinished, Saddam was no threat and not involved in 911. (paraphrased cause I'm a slooooow typer)

And that's how it should've been.

we spend more money than anyone else in the world, but the intellegence was so wrong, he shouldn't have been given the medal of freedom, he should have been fired.

True 'dat!

to do with 9/11, Osama didn't like him because he was secularist, and just like the father heard dfrom his military advisors, you don't go to war without a plan to win the peace.

Moran says he supports the troops but doesn't want to see them lose limbs for the wrong cause.

WTF?

course, there's the $700 million for the Embassey

Everything that blivet** told them about the mission is absolutely INCORRECT!

He is honorably discharged and he comes home to no job, no health insurance ...

Witnessed the worst of both worlds, the senseles war in Iraq and no job, health insurance and debt for college now that he is home.

Asks Murtha to keep doing what he as doing.

I :patriot: salute you sir!

If we lost $500 in equip we would be court marshalled. Why is Bremer not brought up on charges for losing millions? Where is the accountability?

I missed most of what he said.

We are the new MSM - get this on the front page people!

they will get back to him with an answer.

fraudulent lead up to war from this administration.

Congress hasn't had the oversight they should - strategy changed 6 times!

into why we are at war. That's what my buddies who lost arms, legs, can't walk want to know.

These people have really thought out their positions. There's some applause, and some harsh words, but no one is being shouted down. The weight of the messages being heard is so clear and powerful.

even those that disagree. It is refreshing, isn't it?

I love it too. Such a nice enviornment and I love the respect Moran is giving everyone too and he isn't acting holier than thou or anything like that. He's talking to you just like he would anyone else and I like that. :) I don't like it when a politician treats you like you're five or something and everyone is respecting Moran. I haven't been listening long but so far I haven't heard anyone boo or shout down him.

to the country but not military service unless it is a world war like ww2.

instead of faces. No photos of caskets, etc.

are those that die of wounds later are counted as casualties, according to Murtha.

Moran- they are determined to keep this war of numbers and not of faces. If we saw them as mothers and fathers then the impact would be different.

That sums up their policy quite well for me!

About the people who die later. :( Are they still being counted in the total number? And of course they don't want you to see dead images or images of war because of popular opinion.

:applause:

they answer questions with rhetoric.

Rummy says he didn't fire the general. Murths says you just named his replacement 18 months early! If that's not firing ... :rofl:

"I'd rather die than see us be like AQ". Who was he talking about? I missed it.

The officer who was trying to get answers about the torture. He wrote a letter to McCain.

said it.

and the crowd goes WILD!

Hoots and hollers in agreement from the audience!1

:applause:

we impeach Bush/Cheney?

Moran.

:(

democratic process. Aiming for 2006, it sounds like to me.

supported by the majority of this country. I am sick over his response.

the documents about the missing money. Hammer Moran with the facts!

Bremmer was asked by NPR which was his proudest accomplishment,
he said the flat tax.

Guided by ideology rather than practicality.

That's why taking back the House and Senate is important. At least he doesn't give you false hope.

then said, and more importantly it aint gonna happen! REPUBLICANS CONTROL THE HOUSE!

treasonous, lying rat bastards? I am sick.

:(

:mad:

I got the same answer from Barney Frank when I pushed him on it over a year ago. They feel that their hands are tied and maybe they are ...

I guess both Moran and Murtha think that as a position it's difficult to really just come out and say that the republicans are impeachment-proof.

No matter what happens.

Then I guess we should just pack it up and call it a day...

What's the point of fighting if there is nothing left to fight for?

Impeachables:

(1) The crime of misleading the American people and Congress into waging an unnecessary war in Iraq, in violation of the US Constitution and International Law;

(2) The criminal failure of the President to respond adequately to the Hurricane Katrina disaster;

(3) The crime of ordering the secret surveillance of American citizens by the NSA, without any court warrant; and

(4) The crime of torturing human beings, in violation of the Geneva Conventions and the Convention against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment.

(Stolen from another thread...) these are worth fighting for! :patriot:

lol lol..... yes i thought it was good too

and my good sense to quote you in the same thread!! oh well its worth it to have that concise list on the thread twice :) :patriot:

Thanks.:hug:

people in areas that can do this with local govt can create their own movement starting with our govt closest to the people. yes, this would be a grassroot movement. i wouldnt be listened to in the panhandle of texas, but there are a whole lot of communities thru out this nation that this could be done. yes, grassroots



Arcata City Coucil Passes Impeachment Resolution
Submitted by davidswanson on Thu, 2006-01-05 10:57. Impeachment
CONTACT: Dave Meserve, Arcata City Councilmember, 707-834-3612


FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
January 4, 2004
Arcata, California



ARCATA CITY COUNCIL “2006 NEW YEARS RESOLUTION” DEMANDS IMPEACHMENT OR RESIGNATION OF BUSH AND CHENEY

The Arcata City Council last night adopted a resolution calling for the impeachment or resignation of George W. Bush and Richard B. Cheney for violations of International and Constitutional law. The resolution charges Bush and Cheney with the following impeachable offenses:

(1) The crime of misleading the American people and Congress into waging an unnecessary war in Iraq, in violation of the US Constitution and International Law;

(2) The criminal failure of the President to respond adequately to the Hurricane Katrina disaster;

(3) The crime of ordering the secret surveillance of American citizens by the NSA, without any court warrant; and

(4) The crime of torturing human beings, in violation of the Geneva Conventions and the Convention against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment.

MORE AT:
http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/?q=node/6389

He said that if you get loud than they'll get loud. So that's what we have to do.

Murtha - they are inadequately funded and I worry about it. I wish I could assure you ...

Tax cuts, deficits, all are having an effect on this effort.

Moran - the budget protection for the tax cuts is half of what is needed by the vet's and will get worse in coming years as it declines.

vote on whether we stay or not, since they are a democracy.

There was a poll a while back from the military that said 80% of Iraqi's want us gone and 43% think it's justifiable to kill American soliders.

this guy burst my damn -- I am :cry: now.

:cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

we have invested more than Iraq's domestic product already.

Services (water, electric) are worse than when we invaded. Spending too much on security, money has been misappropriated. <-- Moran


corruption is rampent. Sole source contracts are an abhoration. <-- Murtha

we blow things up. It's not nation building because you lose hearts and minds. Things ion pakistan is better than it is in NOLA.

about the cooked intellegence. Downing Street Memo. Pnac gives evidence that the plan was first set in 92 when it was decided that Iraq would be the center ...

Dems must become not afraid to speak out against this administration. <-- Murtha

Many of them were given accurate information and many were aware that they would listen to what they wanted. It was stovepiped up through VP's office. "his father" would not have allowed some of these people on the inside. Vast majority in CIA and DIA were doing their jobs, it just wasn't being used by the people in power.

Really got to the heart of the issue. Hopefully alot of unawares out there received an earful

Awww :(

He's totally sticking to status quo 'don't make Bush too mad' talking points.
Many of his answers have qualifiers, disclaimers, and he's trying to take the edge off or just ignore the pointed questions/info that many of the questioners have.


He's really a Dem ? :wtf: What a mealymouth asswipe.

I like what I'm hearing from him. "...Instead, the US has become the SPARTA of the 21st century"

I thought Moran would bomb after Murtha left, but he is doing ok!

And the GOP is in control.

We have to fight other ways.

From a recent article about Duke Cunningham:


On a trip back to Vietnam a few years ago, he called his hosts ''gooks," he tried to make fun of Representative Barney Frank, and, in a famous moment in the mid-1990s, ran away from a physical challenge by Democratic Representative Jim Moran of Virginia, who chased him off the House floor and into the cloakroom,where Moran found him weeping.

but would I have LOVED to be a fly on the wall of that cloakroom!

edited to add - Welcome to DU! :hi:

Here's another article with more explanation of the incident:

WASHINGTON - For those who have observed Rep. Randy "Duke" Cunningham's behavior in Washington for 15 years, especially those who have felt his scorn, his remorseful exit from the House last week carried no surprises. Since his early days in Congress, Cunningham's behavior has been predictable: ad hominem attacks followed by tearful apologies.

In one now-famous incident, Cunningham and Rep. James Moran Jr., D-Va., got in a shoving match over sending troops to Bosnia. Moran confronted Cunningham, triggering a partisan melee among other members -- and Cunningham fled.

Moran found him crying in the cloakroom.
"I thought he had been bullying too many people for too long, and I told him so," Moran recalled. "He said he didn't mean to be so accusatory. . . . After that, he would bring me candy from California."

Why hasn't the DNC, DCCC, DNCC, promoted these vets as great candidates?

Can't give you an informed answer. Hackett is running and is getting report. Give me a list and I will share it ,...

should we bring them home when they sub out more than 10 or 15% while they are getting the lions share of the money.

Good question!

He broke the damn again :cry:

What is going to be done?

Not renew the Patriot Act (applause) all voted for it in the Senate initially, but we didn't know it would be abused. It is unpatriotic, guilty by association, looking into personal records, when they do they loose credibility.

:wow: in protest.

:hi:

The use of chemical weapons.

Moran doesn't know anymore than the man speaking. Collateral damage has been many times greater that of military deaths.

Dem party is not the answer. YOU are the answer. Demand leadership!

in convincing them to support bring the troops home?

neimanwatchdog.org ? for info and resources.


He LOVES to bring up "the father" doesn't he? :rofl:

Use the internet, get the information out, write LTTE, the newspapers are going to be responsive to their readership. Chat with them on the web. We need to be organizing.

Isn't it time the millions who dissagree tell Bush to step down and take his policies with him.

Join us in protest! Ring the White house!

Is there a demonstration in the works??? I had to walk my dog for a little.

world can't wait dot org Not sure how it is written as a url. January 30, I think is the date.

http://www.worldcantwait.net/index.php?option=com_content&task=blogcategory&id=26&Itemid=61

There are all kinds of demonstrations planned. As Sydnie mentioned, there's activities going on after the SOTU.
Here's a link to the entire sight.

www.worldcantwait.org

Sorry I didn't get back to you earlier... having some construction work going on inside my home and my PC room was being invaded!

that blivet** step down and force him out?

State of the Union outside of the capital .. World Can't Wait!

then they went into Egypt and killed thousands.

What's going to happen now, these terrorist are growing everyday in numbers and skills, they are going to go into Saudi Arabia and throw out the royal family. They are going to go back into Europe and other countries. It is making us more vulnerable. Blowback is going to happen. Longer we stay, there is better chance that we will pay down the line.

how about some electricity and running water? <--Sydnie

Tolstoy or maybe Chaucer. :eyes:

perhaps they would like them? ;)

Jim Moran shows that you can be a moderate, New Democrat without selling your soul to the right wing.

We sure don't hear many DLCers talk that way. Lots of things he's saying are surprising.

Moran is an example of why I don't like all the plain DLC bashing. I don't like the DLC as as whole, but when it concerns individuals I look at their records and their actions.

Will be back to post what I just did there. We need to ORGANIZE and get ANOTHER March going!!

Want to see the rest of the program.... FANTASTIC!

I've noticed we seem to hang out in GD more than GDP. No idea why. :shrug:

From waaaay back!!!

:hi:

with excellent reporting. :hi:

;)

What a wiz!

we need to work with their leadership and through international bodies.

but it won't happen unless we start planning now.

in Iraq and the middle east. Much of the oil is going to Asia.

succeed. Israel must be accountable for what they are doing. The rest of the world knows these facts, the American people don't know it. (meager applause)

the world will miss Sharon.

regulated to the basement and disparaged in the news.

war on lies. Citizens who disagree are being monitored by CIA and NSA. We must call for investigations.

cosponsor of more resolutions that we can investigate. Downing Street Memo is a very important thing. Leaders in England were told that we were going to war before the American people were. It's an important issue. We had a hearing. A room in the basement. No seating. Covered by Dana Milbank, who made fun of it and misrepresented it. That was an important issue. Paper of record has let us down because if you can't get the Congress to lead these investigations, then you must get the media involved. As a minority, you can't even get a room, much less impeachment.

Get out the vote is the main message here. <-- Sydnie

Discussing the DSM hearing also gave him a chance to clarify his feelings about impeachment- that when they can't even get a room, they have no control over what can be brought up in committee. It sounded like a frustrated acceptance of a grim reality, rather than any disagreement.

and get the word out. Missed her organization, but gave the info about meetings for them.

:wow:

"This trash that we are hearing now incites the insurgents"

fer crying out loud.

I'm sorry for his friends son, but really, try some logic sometime.

Perhaps, if this guy would have comforted her instead ....

I absolutely do NOT believe that letter was written by a grief stricken mother who just lost her son today only to sit down and compose a letter to hand over to this "general" in civilian clothes in time for this town hall meeting with Murtha and Moran.

That was just too orchestrated, in other words, some one else, like probably the messenger himself, wrote that letter and I'm damn glad that the attendees applauded the way they did to Moran's response, despite the fact that Moran did not solicit that applause.

the guy claimed that the mother wrote it to Murtha 4 months ago (I think that was the time frame) and Murtha had never answered it. He obviously came there tonight gunning for Murtha. The fact that the soldier died today just added fuel to his fire.

my bad... :shrug:

So we should shut up just so he can have his fuzzy feelings? He's drank the kool-aid that's for sure. Sorry bud I don't care if he is a general or not but I'm not shutting up for anyone! The truth deserves to be out there. And I like Moran's stance on supporting the troops. Good response!

I feel for the woman who lost her son, but obviously don't agree with what this guy is spewing.

:shrug:

Moran ... don't back down now!

I have faith in the troops but not the government that sent them. (that's better)

September 11 had NOTHING to do with Iraq.

rinse lather repeat that message!

... questions, without any pre-screened, pre-chosen audience.

More then * can say or do! Rep. Moran and Murtha are proving they at least give a damn to respond, even to retractors.

:kick:

it's been a great Town Hall meeting. Moran has done a wonderful job. That last jerk was definitely in the MINORITY there. Was Murtha there? I must have missed him.

I love town hall meetings like that. REAL meetings with all types of people. Looks like a good crowd. I'll have to catch the whole thing later. Will they replay this on the cspan site and when will it be in the archives?

during the day. They replayed the Abramoff specials during the day today. So they might show it tomorrow maybe?

did us proud. I was impressed with his candor. Catch the whole thing when it replays, it's worth it.

Now, my boys have been hollering for dinner for the past half hour, I better go feed the hordes. :)

What a great Town Meeting! I feel uplifted.

:hug:

and Welcome to DU! :hi:

couldn't pull me away! :P

that bullshit on anyone else..and sir it is your fault your friends son died as well, because you "chose" to not hold * accountable before he started this war of lies..and because you "chose" to not become informed...

sir it was my co-workers who died on 9/11 and i assure you..i "knew" * was lying to start this war..i knew long before bush dropped the first bombs of shock an awe it was all lies..because i "chose" to be informed..because i "chose " to look for the truth...

and sir it was me and people like me you vilified before * es war of lies when we warned you..you smeared us.. and treated us like traitors for telling you the truth ..that * was lying up his asshole!!

so i "do" feel sorry for your friends son..he had no choice..he had to follow orders...but you sir??.. there is no excuse for you..you have that young mans blood on your hands..and if you think you are mad..well welcome to my world..because my co-workers death was because of the criminal negligence of this administration..and further ..i seethe every day when those mother fuckers in my white house use..yes " use" my co-workers deaths for their lies and criminal illegitimate war!!

you sir have no idea what real anger is..i have had this anger each and every day since a beautiful sunny tuesday morning in sept in 2001...

as flight attendant of the year for the new york base for one of the airlines involved in 2001 you have no idea of the anger i have carried since standing with families of my airline who lost their mother, brother, sister, son and daughter..because of the incredible lies and use of their deaths for this war of lies!
but sir... you have no idea how much hate i now have for people like you, who got us to this place..because of your utter ignorance and your refusal to even attempt to be a real patriot..i see you as a treasonable person in my country..you have shit on your nation and her people and those who have fought before you and by your side and who fight even today.....and your legacy will be that you are a disgrace to this nation..all because you refused to educate yourself and you were so willing to give up my nation to a corrupt fascist police state so easily!

i find you despicable sir..and not worthy of this nation!

and for Representative Moran and Murtha..you give me the only hope i have left for my country..i would be proud to call you my Representatives..and i love you!
i mean that from the bottom of my heart...i love you for your truth and honesty...

fly

:grouphug:

Inspiring stuff.

http://www.chris-floyd.com/loudblog/

David Swanson sent me the notice this morning to ask me to compress it and put it on our streaming podcaster at Empire Burlesque. So I did - and got it down from 70 mb to five and no need to wait for a download.

http://www.chris-floyd.com/loudblog/

There's some other podcasts there including Murray, Pinter, and Conyer. If anyone every wants me to compress and upload audio let me know

DD.