John Kerry lost the election in 2004 because of...

John Kerry lost the election in 2004 because of...

But if there was this massive fraud, it was the fraud in Ohio that mattered.

Although, I think his campaign should have hit back fast and hard against that swiftboat attack BS...that wounded him badly IMHO.

keep bu$h close enough that swapping a few thousand votes made it harder to prove it was stolen.

"Fooled Again" by Mark Crispin Miller
^^GET THIS BOOK!

Like BillMaher says, for a big chunk of the electorate, the '04 election was a referendum on boys kissing.

Bush was just MORE against it - supporting a discriminatory amendment to prohibit it.

That's the point I was making. How many of those people wouldn't have even come out to vote if those initiatives weren't on the ballot? Besides, they see the Democrats as the party of the queers anyway, so it doesn't matter whether or not Kerry was against it. He's guilty by association.

At polling stations near you, soon,


Void where prohibited by law

any excuse to justify the lies and fraud, that the media could gleefully run with for Bush...And ignore the obvious in Ohio, Kerry didn't help any..what did he have to lose, if he presued the truth? Oh yeah, his Senate seat and another run!

The elite... fuck the people, these were just good ole fraternity bros.

Laughs on us.

he ran a poor campaign (allowing the swiftboat slimes to get away without ever really fighting back was incomprehensible, imo), did great in the debates, conceded way too soon, and they stole the hell out of it (truth is popping out ALL over!)!

:hi::toast:

Kerry also fucked up the aftermath in my opinion. He could have done something more with the money I sent him to make sure every vote was counted. After he refused to spend that money we sent him, I wrote and asked him to send it back. I'm still waiting.

Right, wrong or indifferent, I still feel Kerry let us down. I can't change the way I feel about the man. I don't hate him and I do admit he has done some important things since the election, but I will never feel excited about him as a candidate again. Let him stay a senator and hopefully we can find someone who will really lead. Kerry isn't that person.

I agree that the election was stolen, but Kerry didn't challenge it, and his campaign wasn't as great as it should have been.

from the beginning, he didn't really give a damn one way or another! He was a loser and maybe that is how it was all planned. Better do a different plan quickly or the party is totally doomed!

People have a right to vote the way that the way they wanted too but I think that as long as there are two parties on the left the right will have an advantage. I am not saying anything bad about the greens mind you, I am just saying thats this election was really close and that third party voting had to factor into the equation somehow.

some day to make a real change in American politics! A lot are tired of the same old name calling and repeating of the same crimes of political power! Nothing has changed YET!

We have to be able to live on the planet before we purify it. Do you think that Senator John Kerry would have nominated Sam Alito?

That's the most idiotic thing I've ever seen.

If Kerry had gotten Ohio, he woulda won, sure. But not by a landslide... DUH.

It DOESN'T EVEN MAKE SENSE to say that someone woulda had a landslide IF IT WEREN'T FOR ONE STATE.


Sheesh.

Columbus, OH .... I saw and heard the crimes first hand. To this day I am
still stunned that it looks like "he" is going to get away with it.

BTW IT WASN'T JUST OHIO

Indiana a straight party ticket (dem only) and you vote was flipped to a 3rd party candidate

New Mexico every county that used opti scan went to bush .... even the ones that went
to Gore in 2000 and had more registered dems

Iowa Kerry had a 13 point lead w/ 30% of the vote in and amazingly the last 70% of the vote
came in 3 to 1 for bush even though exit polls did not show such voting

In Nevada, Arizona, Oregon Nathan Sproul had people register voters while looking
like America Coming Together .... they pitched all dem registrations bush/Cheney paid
Sproul more than 8 million

In Oklahoma machines went backwards.

In Maryland ..... 750,000 registered repugs produced 1,100,000 votes for bush
1,200,000 registered dems produced 1,200,000 votes for Kerry

Somedays I feel like I just can't go on ..... when is the truth going to get out?

On election night I was in contact with good I.T. people and political experts w/ Kerry
in Ohio and we were looking @ 315 + E. Votes ....

I'm a huge Kerry fan and was a tremendous supporter of his during the campaign. I think he overall did awesome in the debates and was a great candidate. I do think there were some glaring missed opportunities though. I first and foremost believe Kerry did in fact win the election and that foul play in Ohio, New Mexico, Florida etc... were the determining factors in the loss (ask TIA). Having that said, however, I also firmly believe that election fraud can be overcome by numbers. There was a 1-3% discrepancy that I believe the fraud is responsible for. But if there was a 5-10% lead over the opposing candidate I believe vote swapping would be nearly impossible to hide. I consider this to be important in the upcoming elections as well. We may not rid ourselves of insecure electronic voting come November. But if we GOTV like never before and gain 5-10% over our opponents, I'm convinced their ability to steal the election is nullified. So, I think the fraud did cost President Kerry the election, but I also think the missed opportunities did as well. If he responded firmly, consistently and with overwhelming strength and conviction to some of the accusations against him, I believe he would've had that 5-10% that would've erradicated the potential for them to steal the election.

Hmmm, as an impulse thought, the media themselves cost him a goo 5-10% due to burying story after story that would've hurt *, so maybe in the end they are actually the most responsible.

Hosted by:
http://news.globalfreepress.com/

Fooled Again: How the Right Stole the 2004 Elections and Why They'll Steal the Next One Too (Unless We Stop Them)

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/0465045790.01._BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-dp-500-arrow,TopRight,45,-64_AA240_SH20_SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg

The book lays out the theft ...

But it was also a bad campaign, so it was a dreadful combination of both. You didn't have that as an option... so I had to vote "other"..

hosted by the Orange County Dems and Young Dems from UNC Chapel Hill.
I regret to say there probably were only 100-150 people in the audience.

I agreed that if Kerry had run a better campaign, he might have been able to overcome all the election shenanigans that went on all over the country.
It wasn't just Ohio and Florida this time.

I also agree that the Dems have to face the facts of the need for election reform or they can kiss 2006 2008 and beyond good-by. We simply cannot allow private companies which support Republicans to own machines to process votes without paper trails.

Look at all the "glitches" we're heard about in the last 24 hours.

Now think, how much of a margin would Kerry need to pull to out do the machines?

I'm sorry but, that margin is just our fantasy.

I don't mean to be a shrill left wing moonbat, but please, let's work to get transparent election systems. Then, if our guy loses, we'll know where to take the torches. As it is, we really have no way of knowing how the country voted.

(And I'm not a Kerry person and I sincerely believe he won hands down. fwiw)

the rules and within the paradigms established by the Republicans -- ie, "who's the better commander in chief in a war on terror?". Not only did Kerry not put forth a better framework for looking at the world -- one that works better for Democratic values -- he answered the only question Republicans wanted voters to ask in a way that helped Bush.

I think democrats should have anwered the Republican's question by pointing out that, often, shooting first and asking questions later creates even more danger than you realize. But I really think the Democrats should have been running a candidate who made voters think that there much more important issues that, when addressed, solve all problems, of which, the problem of terrorism is but one part.

and decided it's their moral duty as Christians and Americans to vote for a guy who hates fags and loves war
:sarcasm:

Worst president ever vs Worst candidate ever + Diebold machines = Four more years of hell.

I can see where Kerry could have done things better. But then, Dubya was fucking up pretty good as well. I think he had alot of things against him. The media for one. I work nights, but I'd watch you guys grouse about how you'd see Dubya's speeches in full, and only be told what Kerry said second-hand, and then the message was "Kerry says the usual. Moving on..." even when I thought he gave a terrific speech, like at NY University.

In some ways the election was like watching the popular kids beat up the nerds. I heard the story about the Florida Christain college where some girls were going into the polling place with their Bush signage even though that was illegal, harrassing anyone in line whom they'd identified as a Kerry voter until they left, like twisted cheerleaders. Yeah, that's Christian. Reminds me too much of high school. That's another thing that hurt about that day. The popular moron voted for by morons won out over the nerd who was actually QUALIFIED for the job.

And then there was the electronic voting. I won't even leave an ATM without a receipt. How can anyone argue against voters wanting a damned receipt at least. And yet, I remember some conservative columnist doing just that. After all, her guy won, so why change anything.

I thought Kerry puttered along there for a while, and then finished strongly. I just wish the political shit could have hit the fan, and Dubya's numbers could have dived into the 30's BEFORE the damned election.

I guess part of me thinks this all had to happen. You asked for it, America. You got it. Choke on it. And pay the fuck attention next time, okay?!

Jeez, Louise.
http://markcrispinmiller.blogspot.com/

Jeez, Louise to the max.

Fraud on a massive scale in many states, Fear Mongering(Gays, Terror alerts, and so forth), and a somewhat poorly ran campaign.

The runup to the election was 45% unwavering on both sides and 1% going to vote Third Party.

The swing voters voted on 3 issues and went neutral on all the rest. 1 drew them to Kerry (economy), 2 drew them to Bush (social 'values', terrorism).

They split 2:1.

Bush lost them on social 'values' via the Schiavo thing not six months later. Kerry would have won an election in May 2005 or anytime since.

Awful crap and abyssmal incompetence happened in Ohio. But Ohio polling always matched national averages within 1% and was usually on the nose, it was the perfect mirror of the national numbers throughout the year. Its Election Day percentages matched the national percentages exactly once again. Whatever specifically happened in Ohio on Election Day, there was a Bush majority in the state before and after that.

That's basically how I see the 2004 Kerry campaign. He had every opportunity to squeeze Nero over and over again, but he just didn't have the fight in him that he had in the 70s.

His policies were sound and good. He was an INFINITELY good - better than good - candidate.

That, coupled with the whore repuke media that IGNORED almost EVERYTHING he did or said, coupled with the LIES that were treated with EQUAL respect to the TRUTH.

It was a horrible train wreck approaching in slow motion.

Bitterly disappointed.

I'd love to have been a fly on the wall.

Frankly, I think that his campaign was infiltrated and run by repuke MOLES.

There is simply no other way to explain it.

He trusted the WRONG people.

I am about to start Mark Crispin Millers book "Fooled Again". I will admit that I do not know enough facts about election fraud, but I am more than open to the idea.