Official Censure Hearing Thread # 12 - Judiciary Committee

:kick:

Russ has audio for his opening speech, first and second rounds of questioning in the Censure Hearing which are easier to download than video. Russ also has his courageous opening speech transcript on his Senate website.

I sent him this email:

Sick and sad by the cowardly DINOs hiding in the basement.

Your opening speech was outstanding and will keep the transcript. We need to begin a Third Party right away. Reid and other Dinos are trying to get rid of the grassroots Democratic candidates and we need a real people's party.

I am sick of the Republicrats. I doubt if any Progressives will now vote for the DLC approved candidates so, at last, a real Second Political Party can be a viable alternative to the Senators who have no clothes for their shame.

I still remember the Green Party Recount when the Dems went into hiding over the election fraud of 2004. The Democratic party is gone and we are now realizing it but it is the perfect opportunity to begin a real political party that is the voice of Americans not the corporations.

Thank you, sir, for your courage. It will be remembered 30 and more years from now and importantly in the 2008 Presidential election (if we can get rid of blackboxvoting).

Challenge Reid, he is not doing his job at all and we need someone who will. Thank you for stepping into the breech left by Reid for all Americans.
http://feingold.senate.gov/contact_opinion.html

== Russ for President site states: shame on the Democrats who did not even show up. Leahy was the ONLY Dem, other than Russ who made an appearance.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,61653,00.html

Just wanted to make sure you knew that Russ will be appearing on "Fox News Sunday" this weekend (please check your local listings for times). Hope you can tune in to see Russ!

Sincerely,

George Aldrich
Progressive Patriots Fund

http://www.progressivepatriotsfund.com

helping the enemy

HOWEVER, this means that all Americans could be surveilled BEFORE this.

http://www.codepinkalert.org/article.php?list=type&type=130

Censure Bush Hold Bush Accountable!

To contact your Senators click here for info.

Censure Champions (S.Res.398 Cosponsors)

Russell D. Feingold (D-WI) 202-224-5323
Tom Harkin (D-IA) 202-224-3254
Barbara Boxer (D-CA) 202-224-3553

Cowering Democrats (* supported censure of Clinton)
:puke:

Mark Pryor (D-AR) 202-224-2353
*Blanche Lambert Lincoln (D-AR) 202-224-4843
*Dianne Feinstein (D-CA) 202-224-3841
Ken Salazar (D-CO) 202-224-5852
Christopher J. Dodd (D-CT) 202-224-2823
Thomas R. Carper (D-DE) 202-224-2441
Joseph R. Biden, Jr. (D-DE) 202-224-5042
Bill Nelson (D-FL) 202-224-5274
*Daniel K. Akaka (D-HI) 202-224-6361
*Daniel K. Inouye (D-HI) 202-224-3934
Barack Obama (D-IL) 202-224-2854
*Richard J. Durbin (D-IL) 202-224-2152
*Mary Landrieu (D-LA) 202-224-5824
*John F. Kerry (D-MA) 202-224-2742
*Edward M. Kennedy (D-MA) 202-224-4543
*Barbara A. Mikulski (D-MD) 202-224-4654
Paul S. Sarbanes (D-MD) 202-224-4524
Debbie A. Stabenow (D-MI) 202-224-4822
*Carl Levin (D-MI) 202-224-6221
Mark Dayton (D-MN) 202-224-3244
*Max Baucus (D-MT) 202-224-2651
*Byron L. Dorgan (D-ND) 202-224-2551
Kent Conrad (D-ND) 202-224-2043
Ben Nelson (D-NE) 202-224-6551
Robert Menendez (D-NJ) 202-224-4744
Frank Lautenberg (D-NJ) 202-224-3224
Jeff Bingaman (D-NM) 202-224-5521
*Harry Reid (D-NV) 202-224-3542
Hillary Rodham Clinton (D-NY) 202-224-4451
*Charles Schumer (D-NY) 202-224-6542
*Ron Wyden (D-OR) 202-224-5244
*Jack Reed (D-RI) 202-224-4642
Tim Johnson (D-SD) 202-224-5842
*James M. Jeffords (I-VT) 202-224-5141
Patrick J. Leahy (D-VT) 202-224-4242
Maria Cantwell (D-WA) 202-224-3441
*Patty Murray (D-WA) 202-224-2621
*Herb Kohl (D-WI) 202-224-5653
*John D. Rockefeller, IV (D-WV) 202-224-6472
Robert C. Byrd (D-WV) 202-224-3954
:puke: :puke: :mad: :mad: :wtf: :wtf: :argh: :argh: :dem: :kick: :wtf: :wtf: :wtf: :wtf: :puke: :puke: :puke: :mad: :mad: :argh: :argh: :dem: :kick::argh: :argh:

"Me, Me, Me ... it's all about ME .. oh yeah, DeWine too I guess, but mostly ME.

... the little queen could start by wearing a dress.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Whiny little turds. That is the essence of why I hate them.

the time of war? Oh good lord he is a freaking nut..... absolute power corrupts absolutely....

Truer words never spoken.:(

The one that they've declared will last indefiately? So we in effect, because we are "at war" can ignore most of the Constitution of the United States? Will some democrat with a shred of backbone ask Graham that question?

Then they'd have to go back to OBEYING THE LAW

justifies it.

did this but in good faith, it's okay.

Okay. I murdered my neighbor because I thought he was killing my chickens. Oops, he wasn't, but I killed him in good faith that's what was happening. I shouldn't be tried because I acted in good faith and REALLY BELIEVE IT.

I was a peeping tom in my neighbor's window for the last year, lurking in the bushes, becuase I believed if I listened long enough I'd hear him talking about my family to his wife, as he lay in bed. I REALLY BELIEVED it, why should I be charged as a peeping tom, I acted in GOOD FAITH that what the other guy down the street told me was true!

Love the way he keeps mentioning 'a president who lied under oath in a civil matter', followed by, "But that's not what we're talking about here."

Then why do you keep BRINGING IT UP?

What an idiot!

About stuff that matters, not oral sex.

Bush liked about WMD and lied about warrantless searches.

Very polite...actually seemed to agree with my points. I was PISSED!!!!!!!! Hell, I still am!!!!!!

I may even call Cornyn and tell the guy answering the phone Cornyn is an ass

What a bunch of hypocrates.

for this COMMITTEE MEETING. It will be more important that they be in attendance if the censure is voted out of committee and onto the floor for debate and vote. I am sure they are being briefed on the proceedings.
Calling and demanding the other Senators attend this just makes it appear you don't understand the process. Perhaps, Senator Feingold should have explained the protocol on the Censure to his supporters better.

:grr:

Thanks, Lindsay...

Lots of reasons not to gang up on Feingold. Graham is the appointed mouth with the chairman playing it softer completely on his side. The confrontation is being deflated as much as possible.

Specter reading newspapers, Graham dredging up fear, presidential power are all beside the point and insulting. The Senate COULD tear itself apart on this or several other issues. In an election year this type of display is something obviously all parties are avoiding like the plague, holding their cards closely to the chest, not calling, not raising the ante.

How they must long for the old gridlock days.

laws)

They seem to keep overlooking that point.

take away our freedoms, enrichen the upper class, and eliminate the middle class. The ONLY war going on is the illegal one in Iraq and the war against the people of the United States!

Been telling everyone this since this fake war started. He's a murdering crook who doesn't give a rats ass about anyone or anything but himself and his cronies. That should explain ALL of his motivations and make his actions crystal clear.

phlem

Will that ever sink through their thick skulls? spin spin spin spin spin. It never stops.

is between them & us.

:bounce:

but that's not what we're talking about here and now.

spied on, not just when calls are being intercepted from overseas? :shrug:

Is this guy smart or what???

did not read any that agreed with it.

I bet Spectre thinks twice before dissing Russ again. Russ completely outclassed these buffoons.

and brave as hell to go it alone up there.

You need Bad faith to make an official liable in a civil suit. Otherwise that individual has official immunity. Bad faith has nothing to do with Censure.

Let's say an individual sues Gonzales personally for the wiretaps (you cannot sue the US government). He would only be liable if he acted in bad faith and knew that what he did was illegal/unconstitutional.

But, Censure does not require bad faith. Bush could have the best faith, and censure would still be proper because he broke the law.


Specter knows this (he is a former prosecutor) so its obviously a straw man.

people don't agree with the (p)resident - DO SOMETHING!

I wish these threads would stop closing before someone gets the chance to respond to my posts!x(

Don't want you to feel neglected.......

it will magically turn his dishonest spin into something resembling honesty or truth?

Reposted from last thread since I posted it there one second before it was closed.

mendacity.

well-said

"Congress needs to be involved here.."--Graham

Duh ?!

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/10/20021002-2.html

"" SEC. 3. AUTHORIZATION FOR USE OF UNITED STATES ARMED FORCES.

(a) AUTHORIZATION. The President is authorized to use the Armed Forces of the United States as he determines to be necessary and appropriate in order to

(1) defend the national security of the United States against the continuing threat posed by Iraq; and

(2) enforce all relevant United Nations Security Council Resolutions regarding Iraq.

Martial law in the US is what Graham is trying to legitimize.""

Same as with anyone suspected as a 'terrorist'

""SEC. 2. AUTHORIZATION FOR USE OF UNITED STATES ARMED FORCES.

(a) IN GENERAL- That the President is authorized to use all necessary and appropriate force against those nations, organizations, or persons he determines planned, authorized, committed, or aided the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001, or harbored such organizations or persons, in order to prevent any future acts of international terrorism against the United States by such nations, organizations or persons. ""

Joint resolution Sept 2001
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/military/terroristattack/joint-resolution_9-14.html

ALL HINGES ON WHAT BUSH DETERMINES...even if fabrications.

Lindsay Graham, is the definition of war. Bush has set it up so that any action can be sloughed off as a response to a threat that falls within the blanket of false authority they presume comes from the original authorization to use force after 9-11. The whole house of cards falls if the Supreme Court rules that the president is exceeding his 'authority' under the original authorization. Then the constitution should put accountability back into the hands of Congress by lifting all of the secret manuevering and secret hearings , justified because we're supposedly 'at war'.

The 'problem here' is the Congress hasn't formally declared any these 'wars' that Bush is fighting with the offices of our government. Nothing they have passed gives him the authority for warrantless spying on Americans. All of the rest is evasion.

It continues to expand under the "national security" and "collecting foreign intelligence" mantras.

the false pretenses alone violate the clarity required and (truthful) situations and circumstances. Plus, Congress cannot abdicate their warmaking authority to any other 'officer', which includes the President or executive branch.

out here in America. I asked the guy if Reid feels he is doing his job when the MAJORITY of Americans believe that the PRESIDENT BROKE THE LAW. He didn't have an answer for me.

the real desires and opinions of the American people continue to be marginalised.


I'm thinking that *all* of those electoids get their information from FAUX.

Sick.

It will be a historical quote, and we saw it happen. I need to get a video of that.

... and I'm out.

Can you imagine the stand these same people would take if they were talking about a Democratic president in the same circumstances?

Give me a PFB.

Uh, is that a RULE??????

and let them know the Sen is not doing his job as the leader of the party... I told I was extremely disappointed in all of them....

That way I got everything out that I wanted to say and sent it urgent.....

On edit, I left my phone number if they wished to respond.....

Peace.

They have something on him I think.

Peace.

Executive.

with that 50K "insider" contract thingy and he was publicly defiant.

But these guys are thugs, they're not above indicting him on absolutely nothing. Or worse.

Perhaps they've just made the threat more explicit.

--
www.january6th.org

Remember all of the GOP fuss about getting rid of Specter but then somehow they let him keep his position? I believe that some sort of deal was made where he agreed to do their (WH and their rubber stampers) bidding in order to keep the chairmanship. He rolled over for Alito and he's rolling over now. They either have something on him or he's made his deal with the devil. Anyone with his legal knowledge and a grain of ethics wouldn't say or do what he's done since.

Did Arlen even read the resolution??

Feingold gave all kinds of evidence of bad faith. Arlen is a fucking LIAR. :grr:

PERPETEUALLY!!!

:rofl:

What they have done is unconscionable.

this isn't over yet.

The whole thing was a charade and a Cover Up...

We have three Senators who went on record as having fulfilled their obligation to defend and protect their oath of office on this score...

That's it. It's all over now baby jane...

farce of a hearing.

It's not necessary at all. Sometimes gross negligence is used as the deciding factor.

has to rerun the hearing.

the leading headline around the world!

Since when did the power accorded to controlling party extend itself to the number of witnesses at a hearing?

I mean its bad enough that the media stacks their ridiculous talking fests with conservatives, but I expect some balance at a hearing

even care to show up on this and allow it to happen... What do you expect??? Pretty sad eh???

That pissed me off...


I also wonder if the FISA Act was so unclear about the powers of the President, why was that not handled back in 1978???? I mean so whats the law any way, it seems as if the Republican's argument is that the FISA Law is not consistent with the Constitution and other cases.... then DEAL WITH IT ALREADY it seems as if this is an attempt to muddy the waters to conceal the fact that the President made misleading statements.

Make a damn decision about how FISA can be properly used already, of course that is finally being proposed by Leahy and appears to be supported by Anti Feingold witnesses.

We need to get them the chairmanship, not bitching about them.

I wouldn't give them a potty chair at the moment...let alone the chairmanship. They are not worthy of it.

John Cornyn is the Drive-By Senator ;) Drive-By John. I like it.

I mean geez, whats the deal???? So in an effort to protect the President for allegation of misleading the country, they are willing to admit they have foreign intelligence program that doesn't work.... well work on it for God's sake.... don't just waffle and bring it up to defend the President when he clearly is not following specific laws.....

I give kudos to Leahy who seems to addressing this problem and appears to have reached a consensus from anti-Feingold witnesses.

Russ Rocks! He is such a shining example of leadership. :yourock:

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which violation of law are you talking about? There are so many. Need to be more specific.

"FOURTH AMENDMENT - 'The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

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http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode50/usc_sec_50_00001802----000-.html


another good link here:

http://www.fas.org/irp/agency/doj/fisa/

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The phrase "notwithstanding any other law" means that FISA is the ONLY law regulating electronic surveillance.

This is the important section:


"(B) there is no substantial likelihood that the surveillance will acquire the contents of any communication to which a United States person is a party; and"

This is the clear violation. Bush and Gonzales has admitted that a "United States person" was a party to the intercepted conversations.

Clear violation. Because, they can only wiretap conversations in which a US person is a party, with a warrant issued by the FISA court.

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with nailing down exactly what laws were broken is that everything is a secret, we really don't know exactly what they have done. Here is a link to Feingold resolution, maybe you'll find something usable here http://feingold.senate.gov/censureresolution.pdf

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Go look at the ACLU lawsuits. They will mention the specific laws. Not going to do your leg work for you though. But that is a good place to start.

But I have to know. Are you seriously trying to say that there is some question as to whether warrants are needed for wiretapping and surveillance of American citizens? If so , welcome to the country.(and welcome to DU as well). lol See above for the 4th admendment. It shouldn't be too hard to figure out what that has always meant legally with regards to the need for warrants.

Good luck to you.

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and just read some stuff. I can't stand that "a time of war is no time to weaken the commander-in-chief" bullshit. It's not about weakening the commander-in-chief. It's about STRENGHTENING the OFFICE of POTUS. If we allow ANY POTUS to be above the law---then the OFFICE is weakened in and of itself---and thus we have a weakened commander-in-chief, and a weakened country.

Republicans are the BLIND LEADING THE BLIND. Just a bunch of shitheads who don't give a damn about the country or anyone other than themselves.

It was about 12-1 in favor of censure. Only one asshole repug thought the censure was out of line. All the other repug callers agreed with the Dem's and indep callers that he should at least be censured and some called for impeachment. My son has a good friend that works for one of the Senate rebpubs. He is really a great kid, but since he got to Washington, he's is so out of touch with the real world, it is unbelievable. They have no clue how pissed off people are out in the real world outside the beltway.

Should I? Or will my blood pressure go to dangerous levels?

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It is AMAZING!!!! None of these offices know where there Senator is?!!!!!! Durbin's office told me that he had attended the previous 3 hearings on the matter but had "a senior staff meeting" that he had to attend. CAn you belive that!!!! A STAFF meeting was more important......he supports and investigation "which is the proper course of action to take" according to her. Kennedy's office could care less. I think it's time to find a new party.....the Dems seem to be happy with being the party of irrelevence! ARGH!!!!!

Warner, to recommend a yes on censure. Said any attempt to make what Bush did legal would violate the fourth amendment. Staffer was all business and had to put me on hold for a couple of minutes.

“BLIND FAITH IN BAD LEADERSHIP IS NOT PATRIOTISM!!!”



It is one thing to take authority, it’s quite another to try and conceal abuses and encroachments of power. The Republicans working hand in hand with George Bush and his Administration have done just that!!! Abraham Joshua Heschel recounts to us, “There are inalienable obligations as well as inalienable rights!” Apparently, the Bush Administration and their Republican Guard have forgotten that. It is one thing to “hoard” power, it’s quite another to live up to your responsibility to uphold the law. Apparently, they have forgotten that too!


Russ Feingold wanted a censure of President Bush. Most of the silent majority agrees it is way past time to hold our government to a “HIGHER STANDARD” and stop the flagrant misuse of the law by the executive power and those that support Nixon’s idea, “If the President does it, it’s not illegal!!!”


There is NO JUSTIFICATION in closing down crucial investigations, and there is no plausible explanation for breaking the law. Democracy deserves better! Bush deserves MORE than a rebuke, but it's a start!





Russ Feingold discusses, “MYTH VERSUS REALITY” on Bush’s Warrant less Wiretapping program! This “fact check on Presidential crime is worth the read!


http://www.smirkingchimp.com/article.php?sid=25490&mode=&order=0



For a Party that flies under the banner of limiting government power, the Republican Party’s actions belie their foundation and their words! The more we let a corrupt government get away with unlawful action, the more they will continue to do it, and the ore they will expand their “overreach” of power!


The words of Franklin D. Roosevelt warned us, “THE LIBERTY OF A DEMOCRACY IS NOT SAFE IF THE PEOPLE TOLERATE THE GROWTH OF PRIVATE POWER TO A POINT WHERE IT BECOMES STRONGER THAN THE DEMOCRATIC STATE ITSELF. THAT IN ITS ESSENCE IS FACISM: OWNERSHIP OF GOVERNMENT BY AN INDIVIDUAL, BY A GROUP, OR ANY CONTROLLING PRIVATE POWER!”

where is harry reid? He needs to be fired. Reid is not doing his job so Feingold did his best to fill the breech left by our treasonous and cowardly
Democratic "representatives".

Support Russ by signing up for his forum at the URL below. There are some very good comments and links from people who have been on board with Feingold for almost a year.