The whole world is watching...DU

Hey guys, can I point something out that maybe we've lost sight of? The Helen Thomas thing has given DU a LOT of publicity lately. Lot's of new eyeballs checking in to see whether or not this really is a cesspool of the lunatic fringe.

Maybe now is not the time for us to be showing our darker side through posts telling Jill Carroll to stfu, or screaming nasty epithets at fellow DUers merely because they don't agree with your position on the immigration debate.

Not trying to be Board Nanny or anything...but sheesh, we're aren't exactly going to draw a lot of converts if we scare 'em off before they've had a chance to get comfy and find out what we're all about.

Or is this what we're all about?

I'd prefer to see a generally ratcheting down of the "circular firing squad" aspect of DU in general. But hey, when you put on a nice suit for an interview are you "faking it," or just trying to make a good first impression?

attract more members? Or be hired by those dropping by?

I say honesty is the best policy, and if some people have a problem with that, well tough. (and I don't mean you, I mean the people dropping by.)

I see it as self selection. Some will like it better without a suit and some won't. But what you gonna do?

Afterall, this is about discussion and debate and often about real news making. We were griping about the Dubai ports deal on 3/12, days before the "elders" picked up the ball and ran with it. There was some dissent on that thread. So what, nobody took cheap shots. Was a bit of the "kings english" but that's a common occurance for most people.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=2454971

Just think of the forum choices as the choices between the two fraternities in "Animal House":

-- if you want the clean cut, buttoned down frat, you go to DKOS

-- ifyou want Animal House, you're there;) enjoy:)

.....there are always two ways of saying anything and everything. Disagreeing with a person's ideas is one thing. Launching truly vicious personal attacks against those that disagree with us is another matter entirely.:grr:

I haven't been at DU all that long but even I know better than to attack someone personally - so you'd thunk :freak: that long time DU members would be long past that kind of thing. NOT SO!!:spank:

This is the kind of thing I think the original message of this thread is referring to.

The majority of responders here seem to think I was saying that diverse opinions should be back-burnered. If they'd re-read my OP, they'd see I said nothing of the sort. Simply, why not be civil about our disagreements? Flame republicans and Christo-fascists if you feel the need to post some vitriol, but whom does it serve to be flaming each other?

Disagreement is healthy and encouraged in intelligent liberal circles. Flame baiting and hate-speech should be left for other boards, however.

IMHO.

first place is because of disagreement, people don't intentionally flame for fun. For some people it takes awhile before they get the point others do instantly, but mind you I don't agree with the personal attack though, if thats what you're implying then I'm with you 100%

.....disagree and flame an IDEA, it's quite another matter entirely to refer to someone as an "Auschwitz camp guard" or other equally despicable things because someone disagrees on one issue and one issue only. I lost a lot of respect for some DU members on that one.:puke:

...can kiss control of Congress and the WH goodbye in 06 and 08. Americans generally like a good healthy debate on any issue - but they especially like debates on political issues. Americans DO NOT like the vicious personal attacks seen recently at DU and also seen at FR sometimes.

Pray tell me the difference between the neocons calling into question the service by certain veterans and whether they may have cracked under torture. OR, liberals calling those who disagree with them on a given issue a "Auschwitz camp guard"? Which is worse? IMHO, there is no difference at all. Oh yes, I got exactly that comment - more than once - because I disagree with liberals on one issue and one issue only.

:hug: Thanks for listening to my :rant:

any issue". I seem to have missed that relating to trying to find out what really happened in FL in '00 and REALLY missed it during the run up to the immoral disaster in Iraq. I remember being asked, "Why do hate America?", being referred to as a traitor or as unpatriotic for trying to get info. to people to try to get folks to slow the trainwreck down and to begin to discuss it. We'll have to disagree on this point.

After reading and hearing so much of the vitriol and fascist leaning rantings and hateful, spiteful attitudes of Annthrax Coulter I do think that she would have made an excellent guard at Buchenwald.

right wingers say and do, but try not to emulate them, but don't be wimpy.

Those visiting may have never visited a freeper site, but they know what went on in the 90's and they must be aware of the dirty tricks being pulled on House and Senate Dems. And they do know the lies of this administration. And they know that there jobs aren't there anymore.

Sticking with the facts is more persuasive for most people. Backing up statements is essential. Cleaning up my act means not being as cynically upset as I get. I think we should try to provide the most insightful comment possible and never give up. I must call it as I see it - there is an element of our own that is trying to destroy us - monetarily, morally and they are denying us and foreigners rights. The hope and expectations of our parents is not there.

We have to speak - purposefully. We have to let it all hang out. We have to be critical of our own in a purposeful way - we have to explain ourselves. But, we can do it without being derogatory.

someone does it they run the risk of being sanctioned.

If what the OP meant is we should follow the rules, then I agree and I have advocated that since my arrival here.

But somehow it sounds as if there is another set of unwritten rules the OP is referring to. A set that the OP feels should run parallel or concurrent with the written rules.

I think the rules we have are quite adequate at this time. I'm glad we have them.

I can think of countless times I've alerted and the post stays.

There are posters here just to give wingers like malkin and coulter something to quote "Democrats" on. I put the word on quotes because there I some here that I seriously wonder about.

So it really doesn't matter.

If you have a problem with differences between how posters are percieved by the mods and yourself, I'd write directly to the mods and discuss it.

I have rarely alerted on anyone and often started to and then thought better of it. I want my alerts to mean something, and this medium is often easy to misunderstand where people are coming from.

I will say that a number of people who I've had my suspicions of I later find them tombstoned. Sometimes I think it may be a matter of giving the disruptors enough rope...after a while a pattern emerges.

It amazes me that some people will garner over 1,000 posts and then be a troll/disruptor and get TS. What a monumental waste of time.

The reason I mention malkin and coulter is in the past, I can't recall exactly when, there was a thread where a Duer saw their words taken completely out of context. As it turned out, they weren't the only ones. Someone even saw something I had said taken out of context! Like, way way way out of context! Not even the same subject remotely and yet quoted as a "Democratic Activist," which I am, but not in the context as attributed. But, I'm not as famous as others. I wasn't quoted by malkin or coulter. I was "humbled" by some rw idiot in some little useless rag.

It's been well past a year or more. I didn't bother alerting the mods. What could they do but :shrug: and say that's part of being a member of an online group that anyone has access to read.

Check out any poll AOL does on *. For the past few months, it's about 70-80% negative, on just about any question they ask. I didn't see them run one on censure but it would have (was?) the same.

The disapproval of * is at 60%, approval at around 33%. That's stunning.

The people have arrived at this opinion on their own through the internet or reading free media sources.

Talk to a few, they DESPISE AND DERIDE *.

We don't need to pull back one bit. We just need to keep putting on the heat, with evidence and well reasoned OPs and support. We don't need to calm the disgust with *. It's our distinguishing feature.

We are the people, the renegades, free-thinkers, the rabble, the gripers and we're not the cutting edge for long. The people are catching up quickly.

Wait until it sinks in that NYC and most of the large Florida cities will be underwater by 2100, no debate, no BS, no argument. Even Time is carrying that story.

Those who sow the wind, inherit the whirl wind. Just wait and call me on this if I'm wrong, especially after the 2006 elections, which are DESTINED TO BE A DISASTER. Centralized voter registration databases failing at a 25-33% rate--not registering voters or allowing registered voters to vote. How do you think the 500,000 who were in the streets of LA will react when they get a Republican Congress because the damn "computer" said they were not registered to vote? We're looking at major desenfranchiseent all over the country. Even if they wanted to, the Republicans can't fix it by November 2006.

All Hell is going to break loose.

We're not the architects of this insanity.

We're the Cassandras!!! ...and I'm proud of it.

the old expression that you catch more flies with honey then vinegar.

shot in a wide spread at high velocity out of a super-soaker.

the whole herding cats thing.

just what has come up. but you are right. i am thinking the mckinney du behavior is the worst, and it is the one i have been in yelling th emost.

though i normally dont embrace threads like these, personally i appreciate this reminder. not that i think it will change any of my posts, bah hahahah. maybe, wink

Thank gopod ...

Despite some very serious frustrations I experience here and regardless of how extreme and irresponsible I find the opinions of some people who frequent this place, one thing keeps drawing me back to it. That thing is the simple fact that these variances of opinion are not only allowed but encouraged. I've been a member of far too many discussion groups in which an orthodoxy of thought took hold, and I find that sort of thing quite obnoxious.

If people can't handle having their sacred cow slaughtered now and again, they quite frankly don't belong here.

if we all agreed it'd be pretty bland-
and if we all understood each other already,
a discussion group like D.U. would be useless.

The current monoculture inhabiting the nations capitol is showing what happens when everybody reads off the same generic script.

Ain't it nice? :)

But sometimes, like this past week or so, it is.

Where's that puppy dog cartoon I did ...



Whoops, that ain't it, sorry. :evilgrin:

In fact...more like it are engouraged!

Thanks. Hi World! :hi:

when I had a piece of crap computer I used to read the DU when my brother would log on, on his computer for about a 1&1/2 years. Now that I have a computer that rocks I signed up. Some of the conversations are informative some of the in-fighting helps vet opinions some are just interesting and funny. But most of all people will see that we are informed articulate and passionate which I think most people want to know exist in the democratic party.

watch what you say. I come here not for the news or anything, I am here because they have a spell check feature for all of my post, and that is very important.

:pals:

Shucks.

We have to have SOME standards!

I am also looking forward to our homosexual DUers randomly turning noobs gay.

:shrug:

DU admin handles nasty epithets and stfu threads on DU.

Conspiracy theories are a dime a dozen, and I get sick of them quite frankly. I know a former DUer who stopped posting because he got sick of the conspiracy theories, especially the one going floating around here that connects everything from the JFK assasination to 9/11 to some neocon conspiracy that seems about as equivalent in beleivability as the cranks that yap about the Illuminati, or the freemason conspiracy nuts back 200 years ago.

Some people seem to think big conspiracies don't happen. To them i say "Iran-Contra".

The poor quality of arguments by CT debunkers (mostly ad-hominems and straw men) do in fact lend credibility to CTs.

don't really care that much for history and such so I'm afraid referencing historical events will do little good. Their posts make it blatantly obvious they do very little reading at all, hence the use of ad-hominem attacks and straw men.

that is not very enlightened. You can believe any fairy tale you want but don't try to sell it as truth.

Conspiracy aficionado from MN
DFL :dem:
Don't forget they whacked Wellstone and I am a Kennedy/Wellstone Democrat!

attempts to explain what's happening. People will always speculate on the reasons that things are like they are, and will speculate on what's behind it.


When someone makes a poor analysis of why something occurred, I feel it is our responsibility to counter that with facts and good analysis.

However, conspiracy theories are what prosecutors come up with on a daily basis to try and convict criminals. For instance, one of Tom Delay's former top aides just plead guilty to conspiracy on friday.

A year ago I'm quite sure DeLay's aide took your approach to conspiracy theories, particularly the theory that involved his illegal conduct.

J. Edgar Hoover claimed the mafia was a conspiracy theory. He was right. And it was a good conspiracy theory. We know that the mob certainly does conspire to commit crimes. He claimed there was no mob to conspire. His argument proved to be very weak.

Now perhaps you feel it is unfair or premature to say that anyone other than Oswald was involved in the assassination of Kennedy, or that the government's conspiracy theory of 9/11 is patently untrue, or that the self named Neo-Conservatives are capable of criminal actions. This is your right to make these claims. Just as it's other people right to point out for example that what the Neo-Conservatives envisioned as evidenced by their own writings has certainly come to pass and that the Neo-conservatives are a major force in the bush administration.

If you have information or a decent argument to the contrary, then by all means please post it. But if you deal with that information presented by another poster by diminishing it solely because you label it a conspiracy theory, then that is intellectually dishonest IMHO. You can always ignore the thread, too. As I'm sure you are aware, you aren't required to weigh in, unless you want to.

As to the poster you know who left because of conspiracy theories presented by DUers I say to them, "Have a nice day!"

It'll get locked away in a trunk in DU's attic faster than you can say "PNAC!"

might disagree with this policy, it's one I can live with.

That there is a forum for it at all is a good thing. And it's a pretty active forum compared to many other forums.

My personal belief is that the US government's 9/11 conspiracy theory is full of holes. I am reserving judgement on what that means, although I do believe lihop and mihop are possibilities.

There are also other possibilities though.

...it refers to crazy theories requiring the action of hypothetical shadowy hidden "forces" pulling the strings of the world. The anti-semitic BS about the "Zionist Conspiracy" is an example (thread Godwinization complete :hide: ).

often employed to discredit rational questions and concerns from being raised about a subject.

By linking the rational questions or concerns to an irrational theory, the "linker" muddies the waters and diverts any serious attention from being paid to the rational questions and concerns.

Theories should be discussed on their own merits, or lack of merits, and not on some other unrelated theory.

and not to hijack the thread,

i get to post this... and it comes from my dad's masonic bible, printed in 1949, copyright 1941.

Headed:
Defense of Democracy in the Land of Liberty

George Washington, the founder of this country, was the first Grand Master of Masons of this commonwealth, comprising the thirteen original States of this Land of Liberty, founded on the priciples of Brotherly Love, Faith, Hope and Charity, the vital breath of which is "Individual Liberty", and an equal opportunity to all of its citizens.

Of the twenty nine Major Generals in Washington's army, twenty four were Master Masons, of the thirty seven Brigadiers, thirty were Master Masons, proving that this "Land of Liberty" was founded by the Master Masons. Now, as then, masonry's challenge is the Holy Bible, it's teachings from the center to circumference symbols of the everlasting.

The Washington Monument is built of stone contributed by all the nations of the earth to honor the founder of this republic. From Arlington it looks like a giant spike, which God had driven, saying "Here, I stake a claim for the home of Liberty".

Of the fifty six signers of the Declaration of Independence, fifty three were Master Masons.

end quote

Although I do NOT believe that this is a "chrisitan" nation, due to statements by Franklin, Jefferson, et al, don't underestimate the influence of Masonry during the founding of this country.

is a lockstep of opinion....they can get that in freeperville.

One of the most common refrains here is "You'd never see the republicans attacking each other like that!" Which is basically because Bush supporters have reduced the GOP to little more than a cult. A large, dangerous cult, for sure, but a cult nonetheless.

I'm not advocating homogenous, lock-step postings. But can you really make a positive case for the type of race-baiting the McKinney posts have brought out? Is it helping anyone to post "STFU" to a women who just returned from some sort of ordeal in Iraq, one of which none of us know the facts?

I don't really have a problem with the general immigrant debate. It is necessary, it is important. But when people start calling others "racist" simply for thinking there is a problem with Bush's amnesty plan, does it help anything?

I don't want to see DU turn into any sort of Freeperish echo-chamber. I love the difference of opinion I find here! That is why I come here, because it one of the few sites to offer such vigorous debate on all manner of vital subjects. I'm just sayin'...the difference of opinion I love turns to loathing when those opinions cannot be expressed in some sort of grown-up, civilized manner.

:thumbsup:

"grown-up, civilized manner."

And I'm not even disagreeing with you about your example. (which, by the way, might be called extending a debate into another thread, a violation of the rules. Does that look bad to new viewers?)

So while I empathize with your intent I'm quite sure the mods can and will do the right thing usually. I'm also not sure that posting about it will do any good, either for mod enforcement or for new viewers.

As to your example, the same could be said for any LBN posted about someone arrested for any crime. People pile on with their opinions based on nothing other than a newspaper account.

I do what I can to remind people that just because it said something in the newspaper it doesn't mean that's now the gospel truth. i've noticed it has minimal effect in most cases.

I will say this though, I've had my own view point successfully altered at times by other DUers good arguments. Well thought out and expressed arguments are certainly more effective than poorly thought out and poorly presented arguments.

Either we allow the great raucous of free wheeling debate or we become a dittohead echo chamber of the slightly center left. It is in the heated passion of free debate that I actually learn the most about the other side of issues and am forced to rethink and reconstruct my own beliefs. Could we be less antagonistic? Well sure, if we were all saints, but mostly we are great sinners here to thrash out our differences and learn in the process. Wallow in it!

I think of your post as the 'Shhh Michele Malkin is listening' post. (We could canonicalize post-memes, give the recurring ones numbers, save bandwidth. "I'm posting '42.3087' now." But I digress.) Let them listen. Let the word get out that here on DU free opinions from Democrats of all flavors are expressed, that great issues are debated with great passion and even with well researched facts. Let the faint of heart faint. Let the brave learn.

And in case they are listening: fuck 'em if they can't take it.

:thumbsup:

The moderators of this website operate within a nicely established framework and I would be disappointed if there was any significant change in the "tone" of DU. If one feels the rules are being broken with impunity, one can always contact the administrators. Demanding that thousands of people limit the content of their posts even further within the established parameters will accomplish little and is quite frankly illogical.

I find DU to be the best, most easily accessible source of news and information on the internet bar none, with plenty of lively and informative debate, so everyone here--as you were!

those example are personal attacks, which I think should not be part of DU, I'm sure Admins and Moderators are working on getting rid of that devil.

:D

You're gonna scare the noobies!
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:





















Good job! :evilgrin:

;) :D

BTW, you have another fan in my house - my (almost) 15 yr old wannabe graphic artist grandson! He was sooo impressed w/gramma for 'knowing' someone that does the artwork you do!

See there, you made me cool!

Here is my gallery:

http://news.globalfreepress.com/gallery/index.php?cat=10002

It's a whole Brave New World Order Thing.

Know your BFEE: Bush and bin Laden Clans Together in Bed

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=5280903

We're the only ones who don't like Bush

COOL! :D

Someone starts a thread that is somewhat controversial.

Its opponents attack it furiously and relentlessly until they get it locked.

SOP.

No, wait...I love you...wanna do some gay stuff while we roast a few spotted owls?

here I go---
I'm gonna prrrrrreeeeesssit
heeeere goes......
theeeeeeee
Aaaaaaa
lllllllleeeeerrr
Ttttttttt
the "All HURT" (alert)button!
(I'm all hurt!)
.....here goes......
ZAP!

the ALERT button is DU's best feature !
where else on the web can you get attention if you're all hurt?

just tattle tailed on you!
now you'll be sorry!

wait...is sarcasm all loud? (I mean allowed)???

Sheeesh I didn't say that.

DU is everything that is good about America. .:toast: Please don't change. If DU gets too hot for people, then they should get out of the kitchen.

Have you heard about that memo which proved, by his own words, that George W. Bush was dead-set on starting a war in Iraq for no good reason? No, not that one, this one:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x817797

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2006/4/1/182512/3999

Gooood stuff there. Check it out before you head off.

(Yes, we know. But it's a weekend. It can't be all Bush all the time.)

Many Other Memos... Whole World Just Shook Heads When The Criminal Cabal Of Idiots Got Selected By The Machines Again In 2004... Whole World Just Hopes 60%+ Polled Will Suffice To Elect Good Honest And Intelligent People And Restore True Democracy And Respect Of International Law Inside The U.S. Before It's Too Late (Like Global Warming Is...)!

Yeah DU might be growing too much???

:shrug:

the 60s war portests were preceded by civil rights protests.

I think there's a potential for these immigration protests to get bigger and encompass more issues.

:tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat:

Peace.

They can never find out about Project X.

them later? :rofl: Was that April Fools? It's after midnight here.
Look Atman, all posts here are verified and this is the straightest news anyone can get anywhere. If our outlook is too dark for them, then they need to put on their :tinfoilhat: and get a grip. You too, ;)

:rofl:

:spray: :rofl:

:rofl:

repuke, keeping secrets. My pagan open ways have given me away again. :rofl:

ignorance in that just makes me realize why being a democrat isn't going to work for me anymore ... much too weak and ignorant ... third party is the ONLY way for me to remain sane. I hope whoever told her to stfu suffers her same fate and see what they say to get free. I really don't even know if I will come back here after reading this ...... so upsetting

But unfortunately, those you speak of can't just turn off their looniness - they really ARE the lunatic fringe. They can't pretend to be something they aren't (eg, reasonable adults).

I wish this weren't the case, but all I have to do is spend a half hour in GD and I get a headache from the sheer idiocy and kneejerking.

There's a lot of great content on DU, but unfortunately, finding it is like sifting through a massive dungheap of shrill, screeching polemic and groupthink.

who had absolutely nothing to do with the Civil War?

Those tire me out more than the endless threads about Hillary.

And, they're way more off-putting to newbies.

of one of the most tiresome type of tirade here.

so we don't upset the moderate democrats out there. Not me sorry. Screaming lunatic left fringe here and proud of it.

Warts and all. I'd rather have people be free to say whatever's on their mind than to try to censor ourselves. Love it or leave it - we are who we are. :party:

if the homos really did lose 2004 for us or was it strictly Diebold hotwired to Karl?

sorry, posting before coffee.

or not. I've been guilty of snarking at others here on a couple of occasions, and I'm not proud of that. The feeling I've had when I've done that is more than enough to keep my temper in check when I disagree with another DUer.

Thank you for shining a light on the lack of civility that sometimes prevails. :thumbsup:

I've bitten the bait and "snarked" recently and, in retrospect, wish I had just stuck to the issues.

I am appalled though, by the recent level of flaming that is happening on DU. Regardless of the subject matter of the thread, someone has to find a petty detail to argue about and an excuse to insult other DUers. I have thick skin, but watching everyone else fight is becoming tiresome. It reminds me of arguing with my immature 15 year old.

I'll put on the cheap suit, but I am not going to hold my tongue for some freeper to try to come to reality.

Common Man and Woman lurkers are welcome, but if you are too thin skinned for debate, I wouldn't advise it.

Hi Cruel World! :hi:

:dem:

We were admonished to behave and not say things like piss on Reagan. We were to show our 'best' side with everything being the utmost in decorum and civility.

Screw decorum. Screw civility. What do you think this is, the Senate?

Edit: Ah, forget the Senate, Cheney already beat us there with his vaffanculo comment to Leahy. And Scalia at a Catholic church, ha. Isn't anything sacred anymore?

Further edit: This should help Shakespeare Insult Kit

I would expect that from Freepers.

and to behave like serious political thinkers would not be a betrayal of our values! Sometimes I act like a wacko on this board just because I can: I am among friends. I will try to be more serious/contemplative without betraying what I believe in. Thanks for the reminder.

(Before the last Pres election, I remember telling my dentist about DU, and how I enjoyed participating in the different boards and getting things "off my chest." Unfortunately, that night, we on DU had a particularly "far-side" night, and he decided to check us out. When I went back a few days later, he thanked me for the site, but said he decided not to participate, as he was seeking a site to participate in that was not so extreme....I was sorry that he didn't stick around long enough to see that we are not extremists...mostly.)

Your assumption that it is "we" here at DU that post those offensive or bonehead posts is wrong. Many are posted by silly people, and many are posted by people who are not part of "we here at DU" who are out to provoke and discredit the DU community, and in any case there is no "we" here, DU is large and diverse, and that is the whole point of the place.

:rofl::rofl:

That makes no sense. My definition of a progressive encompasses all the variety of different opinions and ideas it takes to move society forward. The beauty of democracy or being progressive/democratic is to be able to discuss every aspect of the world from your own view, while being open enough to listen to how others view their world. It is definitely not to reach one big consensus and force everyone else to agree.....that would be oppressive.

I'm not offended in the least to read posts with points that I don't agree with, and I skip posts that don't interest me. As far as "flame" posts go, shits going to happen when you have a slew of people trying to talk all at once. This board does a good job of keeping the fires contained just enough, and at the same time encouraging the constant exchange of ideas. And that, in my most humble opinion is one of the most important ingredients to a free society that there is.

If we have to change or fool someone to attract them, then they don't belong here. Life is messy and so is democracy. It's the opposite of lock-step mind think, and we all know where that leads.

I only refer to it down here because it gets so hard to find the newest posts when these threads start getting long.

Life is messy and shit happens. Your OP about flames etc. is a nice idea, but it ain't going to happen. The mods on this board do a fairly decent job at keeping it to a low roar.

I once was a ASOP for a UFO forum on Compuserve (long story). Talk about messy...makes DU look like the poster Child of Decorum.

people over we will either continue along that way or we'll change our ways.

kiss each others ass even if I don't agree with their position.....hhmmmm....let me think for a minute.......NO, what is Democracy for, we are suppose to agree to disagree, this is why we have been pushed to the forefront because DU is diverse, this is what DU is all about if people can't take that diversity then I don't think they should be posting here. You can read which I'm sure no one has a problem with, and your views can still change from reading, nothing wrong with that.

This is exactly whats wrong with the present Government, no one wants to shut Bush down, because everyones thinks its war so he should be allowed to get away with lying, thieving, murder and Gods knows what.

If people are coming here for the right reason which is to find the truth, they will, unless they have other agendas then they have to feel the pain that comes with the truth, period.


I say we do what we do best without worrying about who sees us or read about us!

I am NOT saying that. READ WHAT I WROTE, not what you THINK I wrote.

:banghead:

Or maybe I should say, "No, gosh darnit!"

agree 100%

-- the value of freedom of expression---priceless!
seems the original poster is more worried about "looooking gooood" than anything else!

BUT that is VERY typical of today's society in general-

Appearance before anything...doesn't matter what's on the inside-
-
-it's what it looks like that really counts--

funny!

Since I'm him, in fact I'm sure of it. Maybe try re-reading it. Or maybe you can explain how calling people who disagree with you "racist" helps anybody?

Maybe you can explain how saying Jill Connor should STFU helps anybody, or advances ANY cause.

I'll say the same thing to you I've said to others on this thread...read my actual words, not the words you think I'm saying. If it takes a few times to re-read it before you comprehend it, fine, but do it nonetheless.

Nowhere, but nowhere, did I advocate "looking good" over substance. But I fail to see how you can call "STFU" substance.

But hey, I guess you just know more about what I think than I do.

(Added on edit) So NT, why the change in tone? Your first response to this thread was pretty cordial, and we even exchanged a bit of a joke over it. Your next two were a bit more pointed, but nothing insulting, just "we're a big tent" kind of posts. Now, you've felt the need to chime in a forth time, this time insulting me and telling me to basically STFU. What gives?

:eyes:

after starting a thread about "misbehaving"- you have yourself childishly misbehaved.

Shame Shame Shame-
this is disgraceful

your post makes no sense-
sounds like you're very angry about something.
Why I do not know
.
Try your best to not take things so personaly --especially if you are advocating not argueing.

Come on, NT. Where did I say I didn't want to argue? That simply wasn't what my OP was about!

I never said we shouldn't argue. And the only thing I am remotely "angry" about is you insist on telling me what I said, and not listening to me telling you what I said! Why have so many others here been able to get it, but not you?

My post was NOT about not arguing. My post was NOT about not having a difference of opinion. You simply cannot show me anywhere where I wrote such a thing. I simply said that DU is getting a lot of publicity, and a lot of new eyeballs, and noobs tuning in to only to find a bunch of hate-speech doesn't do anybody any good. I never said not to discuss, not to argue, nothing of the sort! I never started a thread about "misbehaving." I'm so sorry you can't see that, but I obviously am not going to be able to make everyone understand. I didn't expect to. But neither did I expect to be dogged by somebody who simply refuses to listen to what I actually posted.

Have a nice night, dude. Take a rest. And try reading more closely next time.

I wasn't even talking to you and you pick a fight-****

if you look above, all I did was agree with another poster-

***Practice a little self control if want to seem convincing
when suggesting to others to control themselves around D.U.


over and out
"dude"(....as you say )
(I guess I'm a guy!)

Note to myself:
I hereby mark this as thee most non-self-aware example of hypocrisy that I have ever seen (and likely ever will see) on D.U.

LOL!!
X a million!!

people who represent how we feel, and be open to this free expressive sight.
We have to DU all we can to bring light and reason to government and open the eyes of anyone who senses the wrong doing of the Bush Co administration.
Maybe will will be an instrument of change. Who knows?

Thank you all involved in the rose affair, Skinner, and all who share this sight and our concerns.

With all due respect to the flower campaign, it could too easily be taken out of context and leave whatever eyes are watching with the impression that the height of DU party activism is sending roses to a journalist.

Now is the time to show that, while the bulk of our elected Dem reps are spineless - the party base, the contributor$, the voters are NOT!

Thanks.

Indeed. Some would say getting Hillary Clinton elected is what we are all about. Or getting whatever insert Dem name here-that isn't for ending the war or holding Bush accountable elected-it don't matter folks-as long as they have that D! behind their name. But for me DU is about telling the truth now and not hiding behind endless games of bullshit semnatics. It's about not having the deluded blinders on that say-tommorrow we will win when we haven't won a damn thing in at least five and except for a very few all our Dem leaders have done is being complicit and capitulate. Enough already. It's not 1995 anymore. It's not all going to magically turn around when a few more Dems that don't really believe that much different than Bush are elected. YES-they will handle the war more competently-but they won't end it. Yes-they will say they are for American liberties-but they won't dare stand up to the patriot act or the warentless wiretapping. The won't step out of the box to even the smallest degree. The Democrats marching cry is always TOMORROW! When does today matter?

Anyway-I read the most magnificient truth on DU-even some important stuff from the Fitzgerald case to many truths about the war and the rest. The truth is what matters to me. And that is what I demand from any Dem I vote for.

Sometimes, we're more childish than other times, but we shouldn't act like we don't fight and get petty at all, because we do. Sometimes we're much more united and friendly. It's the nature of the Big Tent to have nearly all kinds of behavior. New people should realize this.

WE ARE ALL ATHEIST PERVERTS!! I AM TYPING THIS ON THE BACK OF A TEENAGE HOOKER!!! YEEEEHAAAAHHH!! Feingold in '08!

http://www.phantomranch.net/folkdanc/articles/hokeypokey.htm

"O proud left foot, that ventures quick within
Then soon upon a backward journey lithe.
Anon, once more the gesture, then begin:
Command sinistral pedestal to writhe.
Commence thou then the fervid Hokey-Poke,
A mad gyration, hips in wanton swirl.
To spin! A wilde release from Heavens yoke.
Blessed dervish! Surely canst go, girl.
The Hoke, the poke -- banish now thy doubt
Verily, I say, 'tis what it's all about.
-- by William Shakespeare"

Written by Jeff Brechlin

It's time.
And people who have tried to politely warn against this regime for years need a place to shout the truth at whatever voice they feel warranted.
We have patiently responded to ignorant name-calling and lies with facts for years.

No more.
I know they can't stand the taste of their own medicine, but they are sick and need a little medicine... Lest we all die from this disease of conservative politics.

Im not so sure about that.

the bfee didn't REALLY take us to war when they voted that he could - yeah right -

Post what YOU think. How would you know what other people think? Who is this scary imaginary audience? For all you know they might agree. It's a small step from pretending to think something to actually thinking it, not because you've thought it through but because you've forgotten you were pretending.

It seems that any call for civility and introspection on DU leads many to respond as if you'd called them a blithering freeper or something. More often, they simply skip over all the relevant points and go straight to "YOU'RE TRYING TO CENSOR DU!" Then the name-calling starts.

With growth should come, well...growth. DU is getting a lot more media attention lately, and it only stands to reason there will be new visitors. With new visitors there will be new disruptors. Those of us who've been here a long time, especially, should realize that this is a "big tent" board with lots of diverse opinions. I don't want to resort to Bushist "straw man" tactics, but the DU rules specifically forbid calling out any individual posters, and therefore I can only speak in generalities. But there do appear to be quite a few here who like to argue for the sake of arguing, who read any call for civility as a capitulation to the dark forces of censorship. However, I urge you all to re-read what I originally posted, as well as this fine post by OhioBlues. I was attempting to make essentially the same case, and I can't help but think perhaps my post was the impetus for OhioBlues. He/she stated the case much more eloquently, and perhaps that is at the root of the misunderstanding here. Of course, it could also be that I am merely lacking in any self-awareness. Who other than a person I've never met, who has repeatedly refused to acknowledge or accept the point I was making, would be best able to discern the level of my self awareness?

So to recap, nowhere did I call for censorship, nowhere did I say DUers shouldn't argue. I merely pointed out that the spotlight is on us. DU is beginning to be taken "seriously," good or bad, for whatever that's worth. It was probably a crazy notion to think that those who would post "Jill Carroll is a lying bitch!" might heed any calls for civility, but still, I thought it needed to be said.

I'm just baffled at those who find ways to judge me, after nearly 8000 posts here, because I think hate-filled posts do DU a disservice. Call me a heretic. Just don't call me late for the revolution!

(edited for grammar, and a typo or two)

other side trying to disrupt our discussions. They get found out soon enough.

lol