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kpete Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-07-06 06:44 AM
Original message
Did Bush Lie to Fitzgerald? By Robert Parry
Did Bush Lie to Fitzgerald?
By Robert Parry
April 7, 2006


Lewis Libby’s testimony identifying George W. Bush as the top official who authorized the leaking of intelligence about Iraq’s alleged nuclear weapons program raises two key questions: What did the President tell the special prosecutor about this issue in 2004 and what is Bush’s legal status in the federal criminal probe?

Bush’s legal danger came into clearer focus with the release of a court document citing testimony from Libby, Vice President Dick Cheney’s former chief of staff who claimed that Bush approved the selective release of intelligence in July 2003 to counter growing complaints that Bush had hyped evidence on Iraq’s pursuit of enriched uranium.

Libby, who is facing a five-count federal indictment, testified that he was told by Cheney that Bush had approved a plan in which Libby would tell a specific New York Times reporter about the CIA’s secret analysis, according to a court filing by special prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald dated April 5.

“Defendant’s (Libby’s) participation in a critical conversation with Judith Miller on July 8 (2003) occurred only after the Vice President advised defendant that the President specifically had authorized defendant to disclose certain information in the NIE,” the highly classified National Intelligence Estimate, the filing said.

While some experts believe Bush may have the legal authority to unilaterally declassify secrets, Libby’s testimony – along with other evidence from this so-called Valerie Plame leak investigation – leaves little doubt that Bush and White House aides repeatedly misled the public about the role of senior officials in disseminating secret information to deflect criticism about the Iraq invasion.

http://www.consortiumnews.com/2006/040706.html
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berni_mccoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-07-06 06:46 AM
Response to Original message
1. I wonder if DU inspires the global conscious?
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-07-06 06:48 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. I think that
DU is more widely read by all types of folks involved in the Plame case. And for good reason.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-07-06 07:25 AM
Response to Reply #3
14. Yep - and Robert Parry has been a journalist of conscience for decades.
He has influenced many of us anti-corruption activists for years. It would be nice if he read us, and he probably does - but where in the heck would we be without him? Still fumbling in the dark looking for a light switch.
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enough Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-07-06 07:40 AM
Response to Reply #14
16. Agreed, Parry has been one of the bright lights for a long time.
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DoYouEverWonder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-07-06 06:47 AM
Response to Original message
2. Now that they are claiming the Bush declassified the NIE
Edited on Fri Apr-07-06 06:47 AM by DoYouEverWonder
so it was okay for Libby to share the info with Miller, then why did they make her sit in jail for months?

Why didn't Bush just come out then and say he knew and authorized the release of this info? Because they are full of shit is why.



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jbnow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-07-06 07:14 AM
Response to Reply #2
11. That's an obvious and good question
But I hadn't even thought of that. I did wonder how they'd explain not being straight from the start and ending the investigation, why Libby went through all the lies that got him charged.
But why they let a reporter go to jail would be very hard to make sense of.
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MissWaverly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-07-06 12:53 PM
Response to Reply #2
30. If you listen closely, it's their Bush does all defense
they say that he can declassify something and boom, it's immediately declassified and then
they don't have to notify anybody of their actions so boom, it's secret declassification,
so if there is any fallout from their actions then boom, there is no accountability. this
goes hand in hand with his god given right to do what he pleases freed from the constraints
of existing laws, the Supreme Court, the U.S. Constitution and the Congress.

Now the old Pre-Bush method for declassifying material was for the president to meet with
interested parties and discuss declassifying the material and then get input on the impact
of this action.
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EST Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-07-06 06:50 AM
Response to Original message
4. If all are innocent, then why all the lies!?
Edited on Fri Apr-07-06 06:51 AM by EST
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Zen Democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-07-06 07:25 AM
Response to Reply #4
15. If the stuff was declassified ... why did Tenet declassify it later.
Tenet declassified this NIE 10 days after its contents were disclosed in Judith Miller's column in the NYTimes. So .... if the president had already declassified it, how could that be?

Those making the argument that the president can declassify previously classified information must certainly know that there is PROCESS that must be followed to declassify documents. There certainly are "irregularities" (as stated by John Dean) with the 'Bush can declassify' argument -- it's not a clear cut as the folks at Fox News would have you believe.

I loved Dana Milbank's comment on Countdown last night that Bush now looks like Louie in "Casablanca" saying "Col. Strasse has been shot! Round up the usual suspects!"

And Olbermann said he was more like, "Who will rid me of this meddlesome ..." (in reference to Joe Wilson).
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flyarm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-07-06 09:59 AM
Response to Reply #15
24. does anyone know..did * or cheney ever talk to FBI?
remember the FBI was investigating before Fitz was put onto the case..the FBI was questioning people in the White House prior to Fitz...
now if the FBI talked to * or Cheney..and they lied to theFBi..

Martha Stewart went to prison for lying to the FBI..or Misleading the FBI..that is a federal offence..

so does anyone know if * or Cheney were ever questioned by the FBi..before Fitz was put on the case in DEC that year?

fly
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ayeshahaqqiqa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-07-06 06:52 AM
Response to Original message
5. Didn't Bush and Cheney insist on talking to Fitz
without being under oath? I figured then they did it to avoid criminal charges.
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-07-06 06:54 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. yes they were both not under oath
that is where the obstruction of justice comes in. It is still a crime to lie to the Prosecutor.
Oh Happy Day! :)
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lldu Donating Member (272 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-07-06 07:42 AM
Response to Reply #7
17. Remember, Shrubs sat on Cheney's lap the whole time n/t
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-07-06 08:10 AM
Response to Reply #17
19. wrong interview
that was the Sept. 11 commission interview that they did together. For Fitzgerald they were interviewed separately and with their attorneys present.
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ayeshahaqqiqa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-07-06 12:27 PM
Response to Reply #7
29. Thanks for the info
Oh happy day indeed!
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-07-06 06:55 AM
Response to Reply #5
8. No.
That is one of the minor transformations of truth to myth that happens on DU sometimes. Fitzgerald did not request that they be under oath. I fact, it makes little difference -- lying to him while not under oath is obstruction of justice, while lying under oath is perjury. Note that Libby is charged with both, and they are equally weighty crimes.

The special counsel's asking to talk to the president and vice president is significant in and of itself.
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-07-06 07:19 AM
Response to Reply #8
12. H2O Man, have you perused the following thread?
"Judy Miller and the 2002 NIE"
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x867128

BooMan cites Miller article of 9/02 that shows that she had access to detailed NIE info BEFORE the meeting with Libby. Ergo, Libby didn't NEED to show the NIE to her in that meeting (7/8/03), and he TOOK the NIE with him as a planned coverup for their real topic Plame (and, in my opinion, also, David Kelly). If he want and got specific permission to leak the NIE to her in 7/03, who leaked it to her in 9/02? ("Garbo 2004" also mentions that Libby further tried to cover his tracks by mis-describing Plame's job and division.)

Were you aware of this point? Is it new? What do you think of it?



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stop the bleeding Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-07-06 09:50 AM
Response to Reply #12
23. That is very interesting - note that the INR was a footnote of the NIE
the INR clearly mentioned Plame and her work several times. I'm checking out that right now - thanks!
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ayeshahaqqiqa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-07-06 12:27 PM
Response to Reply #8
28. Thank you for the clarification eom
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-07-06 06:53 AM
Response to Original message
6. Obstruction of Justice
according to my friend Mr. H2O Man. :)
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WePurrsevere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-07-06 07:07 AM
Response to Reply #6
10. Right... think Martha Stewart, That's why she went to prison...
Edited on Fri Apr-07-06 07:07 AM by WePurrsevere
obstruction of justice.

With Bush this is just one more drop in the ocean of his lies, crimes and unconstitutional attacks on Americans. :grr:
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mzteris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-07-06 07:01 AM
Response to Original message
9. TIMELINE??????
Edited on Fri Apr-07-06 07:03 AM by mzteris
***claimed that Bush approved the selective release of intelligence in July 2003 ****

But we've read that Libby told Judith Miller in JUNE!

Edit to add:

"WHITE HOUSE
Secret Service Records Prompted Key Miller Testimony
By Murray Waas, special to National Journal
© National Journal Group Inc.
Thursday, Oct. 20, 2005
New York Times reporter Judith Miller told the federal grand jury in the CIA leak case that she might have met with I. Lewis (Scooter) Libby on June 23, 2003 only after prosecutors showed her Secret Service logs that indicated she and Libby had indeed met that day in the Executive Office Building adjacent to the White House, according to attorneys familiar with her testimony."
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-07-06 07:24 AM
Response to Reply #9
13. Also see this thread. BooMan says Miller had the NIE in 9/02!
--and wrote an article, using stuff from it almost word for word.

So if Libby didn't get permission to leak until 7/03, who leaked the NIE to her in 9/02?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x867128

I haven't read the article/NIE analysis, so I can't judge how certain it is that Miller was writing from the NIE in 9/02, but if she was, and he leaked it back then, then Libby's in a whole lot of trouble, having committed perjury AGAIN.
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mzteris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-07-06 08:07 AM
Response to Reply #13
18. thanks....
I think there's too much focus on this "July meeting" thing....... it was out there BEFORE that meeting.

Another diversion, IMO.
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ClayZ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-07-06 08:30 AM
Response to Original message
20. Inqiring minds want to know! K & R
:kick:
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hvn_nbr_2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-07-06 09:45 AM
Response to Original message
21. Even if he has the authority to unilaterally declassify information...
there are still procedures and requirements to do so. Whispering to a journalist and then waiting a few years to declare publicly that it's declassified is not the procedure.
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flyarm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-07-06 10:23 AM
Response to Reply #21
26. john dean said that on KO last night..there are proceedures to
declassify..but the pres can declassify any time he wants..but he "should" flollow proceedures..but * just chose the positive parts of the NIE ..then he shook his head,..

so there "should" be records with Tenet if * told him he was declassifying right??

and Fitz did get records from the CIA..so Fitz should be way ahead of us on this...

and do remember the 3 judges Fitz went to to broaden his scope of investigation..and to put the reporters in jail..the one really conservative judge said national security was basically on the line...

and there were 8(?) pages that were witheld that only Fitz and the Judges saw...

hmmm did Fitz have the proof of a conspiracy?? i wonder...

fly
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helderheid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-07-06 09:48 AM
Response to Original message
22. Will * have to testify?
That's what I wanna know!
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flyarm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-07-06 10:14 AM
Response to Original message
25. major question is ..who told Novak about Brewster/Jennings?
ok so say Judith Miller was told about or shown the NIE report..and disclsed certain info in the NIE report..

and say there was a connection to Joe Wilson ..and Novak made a connection with Valerie..how did Novak find out about Brewster Jennings?????????

it was a 13 yr old operation with many covert agents here that was exposed and destroyed...so how did Novak find out about Brewster in order to destroy it??

and what was the motivation to destroy Brewster/Jennings..

of course i have my opinions why..and motive..but who gave that classified info to Novak??
Was Brewster in the NIE report?

and why wasn't Tenet just furious over that..or was he?? i have read he was pissed....

wanna wonder who a possible witness is today with Fitz..i would bet on that..otherwise Tenet might be pretty culpable here..and i bet Tenet thought this bunch made him culpible..and the last thing Tenet is going to let happen to himself is be accused of treason...

i still say Brewster/Jennings was the main target for the * and Cheney cabal!

what were they hiding and when!!

fly
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stop the bleeding Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-07-06 10:26 AM
Response to Reply #25
27. that is a million $ question my friend
hopefully Fitz will show us
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fooj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-07-06 01:07 PM
Response to Reply #25
31. Why did the rat bastard retain a DEFENSE ATTORNEY?
Edited on Fri Apr-07-06 01:08 PM by fooj
If he believed that he was within the confines of the law...WHY did he retain a fucking lawyer? I call BULLSHIT!

Peace.
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-07-06 01:10 PM
Response to Reply #25
32. I agree that Brewster-Jennings--the CIA's
worldwide counter-proliferation capabilty--was likely the real target--that is, Plame plus her covert projects, agents, contacts and accumulated knowledge and expertise.

Some good guesses that have been made as to why:

1. Cheney or other Bushite illicit arms/nukes dealings, that BJ was getting on to.

2. Money trails or other evidence re: 9/11, terrorist networks, or other crimes/dirty dealings that might track back to Bushites. (Why do you think they are "rendering" all those anonymous people off to torture dungeons in eastern Europe and other torture-friendly, distant countries? I'm very suspicious about that.)

3. The WMD-planting theory.

-------

The WMD-planting theory is the most Byzantine of the three, but it does have some very compelling aspects. For one thing, it explains why the "crude" Niger forgeries were "crude" rather than expert. (Because they were INTENDED to be easily detected by the CIA, to ENTICE them into a public, or on-the-record, no-nukes-in-Iraq position--to discredit and make fools of them--and make them more easily purgable--when planted WMDs were "found.") What was notorious (Iran-Contra) arms dealer, Manucher Ghorbanifar, doing at the Rome meeting, in 2001, where the Niger forgeries were likely cooked up? (Planning his revenge on the CIA, for anathematizing him as a liar, by procuring the nukes to be planted in Iraq.) Why were all the top Bushites so upset about an op-ed piece (July 6) by an ex-diplomat, Joseph Wilson, in a newsstream they had almost complete control over, such that they would all put themselves at max risk of treason charges, in what appears to be a panic, in the week of July 6-14? They already half-expected the article, and might even have baited Wilson to publish it. Why all these secret memos and clandestine meetings, and flurries on AF-1, and calls to at least SIX reporters (journalist witnesses to treason), that week? What was the rush to punish Wilson, that such risks were taken?

Ah! Here's the crux. July 7 is the date that started the panic. Not July 6. On July 7, Tony Blair was informed that the Brits' chief WMD expert, David Kelly--who had been whistleblowing to the BBC about the prewar intel--knew more than he was telling the BBC and "could say some uncomfortable things." July 14: Plame outed by Novak. July 18: Kelly found dead, under highly suspicious circumstances--his office and computers are searched. July 22: Brewster-Jennings, headquarters of this entire CIA counter-proliferation network outed (also by Novak), putting all covert agents and contacts around the world at great risk of getting killed.

They may have been planning to "get" the CIA with their nefarious WMD-planting scheme, but SOMEONE foiled them. No WMDs were "found." They were furious. Blair calls Bush (July 7); says Kelly knows. They suspect Plame/BJ, and have the political cover story of the Wilson article all set up, for outing Plame. Plame gets outed. Kelly gets suicided. They get evidence on BJ, with no cover story, really; Novak outs BJ anyway (July 22), and they and the war profiteering news monopolies have been downplaying THAT DATE ever since.

That's the theory. Treasongate is a coverup of their damnable scheme of setting up an expectation of nukes in Iraq--against all reason--then making it come true, by "planting" the nukes there, to be "found" probably by Judith Miller.* David Kelly may have lost his life--was murdered (probable) or committed suicide under pressure (less likely, given his character and the facts of his death)--for finding out about this scheme, and/or helping to foil it. The coincidence of Kelly's death is just too coincidenty to be ignored (and the anomalies re: the suicide story are huge). He was already whistleblowing (a mystery by itself--he had approved of the war initially--he wanted Saddam ousted), and so, if this theory is true, he would have been a very serious threat to both the Bushites and the Blairites. (The Blairites, after they found out he was the whistleblower--yet another mystery--interrogated him at a safe house and threatened him with the Official Secrets Act, in the first week of July, culminating in the report to Blair July 7.) But Kelly being suicided or not is not critical to the main theory--it just makes it immensely sadder. The massive attempt to deceive the American people and the world with planted nukes is what the Bushites were covering up--according to this theory--by frightening and silencing Plame, possibly getting some of her agents/contacts killed, and shutting down her ability to do her job of counter-proliferation. I think the foiling of such a plan--and the fear of its disclosure--is a much a more likely motivator for the outing of Plame and Brewster-Jennings than Wilson's article.

-----

*(And I wonder about the Libby/Miller meeting of July 8, in regard to Kelly. David Kelly and Judith Miller were old friends and colleagues. She used Kelly as a major quoted source in her book "Germs." And it was to Miller that Kelly wrote one of his last emails, on the day he died, July 17, in which he was worried about "the many dark actors playing games." Not only does this sound ominous, but it establishes that Kelly and Miller were in communication at that time, and that he considered Miller a confidante. Miller failed to discose this email, or her close connection to Kelly, in the news article she wrote about his death a few days later. Sketched in timeline: July 7: Blair is told Kelly knows about their scheme and its foiling; Blair calls Bush, possibly on AF-1; Bush calls Cheney; Cheney calls Libby; Libby meets with Miller the next day, July 8, to consult about Kelly, since she knows him well, and about Plame, whom they suspect of having foiled their scheme (and Libby brings the redundant NIE as cover for why he is meeting with Miller.) (Note: Kelly started whistleblowing to the BBC in late May, so the Libby/Miller meeting in June could also have been about him.)
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Lefty48197 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-07-06 05:38 PM
Response to Original message
33. He signed a secret executive order giving himself the right to lie.
We lose again...
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