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underpants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-10-06 07:28 AM
Original message
anti-Da Vinci Code talking points now for sale (here we go)
So yesterday morning I turn on the TV and it is on the local NBC affiliate. At this hour of a Sunday morning the Coral Ridge Hour (Dr.James Kennedy) is on. My path crosses with this instructive insightful examination of "The Da Vinci Code Fact or Fiction"...want to make a bet on their conclusion?

Ten minutes later I am thinking that maybe this NOVEL is not exactly accurate or at least that the predominant authority on this matter (the church) has concluded that it turns out that after all that they were right.

This must have been produced a while ago because one "expert" mocked any talk of the being any other gospels whoops!. I forgot what the organizations name was but they even quoted from an "infamously liberal" group who appeared to have said something one time to complete agree with what the Coral Ridge Hour has to say on this matter.

THEN this guy comes on and I was sure that he was going to sell me either
a. salvation for my soul
b. a 1978 Chrysler Labaron
c. Life insurance



Turns out I was wrong. He would provide me with evidence that the Da Vinci Code is not all fact and many people think it isn't at all true if I were to "prayfully" contribute to his efforts to get this message (that I haven't actually read yet) out to the masses.

CA-CHING!


So there seems to be a whole industry created to fight the book and the coming movie (from HOLLYWOOD!). I just wanted you to be aware.

See here.
http://www.coralridgehour.org/

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paparush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-10-06 07:29 AM
Response to Original message
1. Do you get a free set of Ginzu Knives?
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Taxloss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-10-06 07:32 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. Let's hope so! I bet Jesus couldn't cut through a shoe!
"Feeding the 5000? Trust Ginzu ..."
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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-10-06 07:35 AM
Response to Original message
3. Here's a better (rational) source on the Da Vinci Code:
Edited on Mon Apr-10-06 07:37 AM by IanDB1
The Da Vinci Code Cult
A Critical Look at Dan Brown’s The Da Vinci Code

by Robert Sheaffer

Much has already been written decoding, deconstructing, and debunking Dan Brown’s The Da Vinci Code, including Tim Callahan’s critical review in Skeptic. But since then the book has become a cult hit, having sold over 25 million copies in 44 languages, and the paperback edition is not even out yet! It reached No. 1 on the New York Times bestseller list on April 6, 2003, and has stayed on the list for 103 straight weeks (as of this writing), half at the No. 1 position (and never below No. 5). As a consequence, Brown’s three other novels have now sold over 7 million copies, earning him an estimated $50 million in the last two years. In addition, a film starring Tom Hanks is in production, a sequel is in the works, and at least 20 other nonfiction books have now been published by other authors in response, promising to help readers “decode” it in some way. And if all that wasn’t enough, in March 2005, Cardinal Tarcisio Bertone, head of doctrinal orthodoxy for the Vatican, issued an official statement on behalf of the Catholic church, calling the novel “a sack full of lies” and urging Christians not to read it. Thus, in addition to it being appropriate to revisit The Da Vinci Code, I also think that its critics have been too soft and that there are even deeper flaws in the book that need to be revealed.

By definition a novel is fiction, so it would seem that Cardinal Bertone’s assessment is irrelevant. But, in fact, Brown says in the book: “All descriptions of artwork, architecture, documents, and secret rituals in this novel are accurate.” In this “factual novel,” Brown makes some extremely remarkable claims that, if true, would revolutionize not only all of the Christian religion, but much of history as well. Brown would have us believe that the practices of early Christianity were vastly different than we have been taught, and that a huge conspiracy has prevented us from knowing this. A patriarchal plot by a famous Roman emperor obliterated the early Christians’ worship of “the sacred feminine.” Jesus and Mary Magdalene were married and sired a royal bloodline that continues to this day. A secret society of some of history’s most famous scientists and artists has been dedicated to preserving these ancient secrets for almost a thousand years. At a minimum, these claims would overthrow more than a century’s worth of painstaking research by serious scholars from the most respected universities in the world. If ever there were an extraordinary historical claim that requires extraordinary historical proof, this is it. How good is the proof that Brown presents?


The Earliest Christian Records?

The principal claim to support Brown’s radical historical revision is found in the statements by a character in the novel, Leigh Teabing, who is a Grail researcher and scholar: “These are photocopies of the Nag Hammadi and Dead Sea scrolls, which I mentioned earlier,” Teabing announces, “
What are the earliest surviving Christian texts? If you want to read them, you will find them in the New Testament. Scholars believe that Paul’s epistle, now known as 1 Thessalonians, was written during his second evangelical journey, about the year 51. That would make it the earliest of all surviving Christian documents. Galatians was probably written during Paul’s third evangelical journey, around 54-58. The Book of Acts appears to have been completed by the year 61, although some portions of it appear to be earlier still, and some editing may have occurred a few years later.1 The Gospel of Mark is unquestionably the oldest surviving gospel. It is usually dated around the year 70. Matthew is later than Mark, but was composed before 100. The Gospel of Luke was composed around the year 100. John was written a few years later, but before 120. There is some quibbling about these dates, but New Testament scholars would accept them as being reasonably close.

As for the Nag Hammadi texts, some of which are unquestionably previously unknown early Christian documents, when were they written? The noted biblical scholar James M. Robinson, who headed up the project to study and translate these invaluable archaeological finds, writes that while an exact dating has not yet been determined, “dates ranging at least from the beginning to the end of the fourth century CE have been proposed.” One Nag Hammadi text makes reference to the Anomoean “heresy,” which briefly flourished in Alexandria around the year 360. Some miscellaneous papers bound with the Nag Hammadi Codices can be dated to the years 333, 341, 346, and 348.2 Thus, the physical Nag Hammadi library is unquestionably from the fourth-century, and at least some of its texts are that recent.

More:
http://www.skeptic.com/the_magazine/featured_articles/v11n4_da_vinci_code.php

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meegbear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-10-06 07:38 AM
Response to Reply #3
6. Thanks for the link!
Robert Sheaffer and his Skeptic magazine are great resources!
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DrRang Donating Member (415 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-10-06 08:33 AM
Response to Reply #3
8. Don't know or care about the theology but the art history is ludicrous.
What I remember from my years getting a masters degree in art history-- Brown's insistance that the Last Supper figure of John the Beloved Disciple is actually Mary Magdelyn because he's so pretty is wrong. During that era there was a pictorial tradition/iconography of the "beautiful youth" that was not necessarily homoerotic, but Da Vinci used such figures even more than other Renaissance artists, and employed it for the portrait of John the B.D. Plus Brown's blithering about the hand gestures in the Madonna of the Rocks makes no sense whatsoever.
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Finder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-10-06 09:40 AM
Response to Reply #8
10. The "CODE" is in the actual art.
Not Brown's fictional representation, but in the actual paintings and such.

Dan Brown's books are FICTIONAL, period. Like others, he bases his stories on history and such.

National Treasure was also fictional but there were many facts interweaved that formed the basis of the central plot.

Codes or messages have always been imbedded in scriptures, paintings, sculptures, architecture in history. Of course the messages are not meant for the profane but for future generations.

Artist guilds were what some like to call secret societies. Not because they were sinister but because heresy was a crime.
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meegbear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-10-06 07:36 AM
Response to Original message
4. James Kennedy is Falwell light ...
and words, no substance.

And while I wouldn't buy the Chevy from, I bet I'd get the $500,000 in term life insurance from him.
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insane_cratic_gal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-10-06 07:37 AM
Response to Original message
5. hrmm but isn't the Da Vinci code
a work of not only fiction but based on the a book holy blood..(which was non fiction) that Jesus didn't die on the cross but lived and had children?

If your a christian having a breathing Jesus running around certainly does make things more complicated for your religion.

I haven't read the code yet.. I bought it the other day out of morbid curiosity, but I did read holy blood holy grail.

So perhaps he's not anti Da Vinci but anti the idea that Jesus was just a man.
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rman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-10-06 07:57 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. "...would provide evidence that the Da Vinci Code is not all fact.."
Clearly is was about the Code, not just about Jesus.
With these kinds of people trying to debunk the Code, i'm thinking there's probably more truth to that book than many people think.
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genieroze Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-10-06 11:44 AM
Response to Reply #5
15. You should read
The Bible Fraud by Tony Bushby
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rasputin1952 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-10-06 09:18 AM
Response to Original message
9. I never trusted any "preacher" that wore $1000 suits...
seems to me, that any money collected should go to feeding and clothing the poor and disenfranchised. Little do these "preachers" know that the whole basis of the NT that Jesus spoke in is not sex, or "sin", it is about hypocrisy. None be so blind as those that pluck out their own eyes...:)
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underpants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-10-06 09:44 AM
Response to Reply #9
11. The funny part was when Kennedy came on after the "report"
My wife and I actually cracked up laughing.

I knew that that was what he was going to do but it was stil funny. The report was all serious and looked like Dateline or something and then on comes the guy in the $1,000 with his hand out.

:eyes:

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Javaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-10-06 10:32 AM
Response to Original message
12. 3 months this will all be old news. nt
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genieroze Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-10-06 11:37 AM
Response to Original message
13. any other gospels?
Edited on Mon Apr-10-06 11:38 AM by genieroze
I have a copy of the translated Judas Gospel, no big deal. Maybe to fundie nut balls it is but I thought it was interesting. To bad more of it couldn't be translated because a greedy jerk off waited sixteen years and let it disintegrate.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospel_of_Judas

There were many other gospels.
http://www.nag-hammadi.com/
Read it for yourself
http://www.webcom.com/gnosis/naghamm/nhlalpha.html
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Beelzebud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-10-06 11:38 AM
Response to Original message
14. Funny how they only got riled up when it was made into a movie.
I guess they know their sheep don't read.
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underpants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-10-06 01:42 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. Circular marketing
If they really cause a stink over this it is only going to create more interest in the movie. Some of their people might actually see the thing so they can argue against it but then THAT creates more interest in the counter Code industry so they create their own little cottage industry. They sure know what they are doing no wonder this business model has been so successful.
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