My Dad has stock in Wal-mart and berates me about

my stance on their bad practices. Once he actually said, who else is going to hire "those people." I couldn't talk to him for days because I was actually shocked. But, now I was trying to explain that Costco was a better company and he just said you are wrong. Then, I said that all this talk is really irrelevant as we should be more concerned with the GDP and how we judge our economic success by production and profit. I said that all this growth is unsustainable and will destroy our air, land and water.

He just accused me of not practicing what I preach as I drive a car and do not walk, use heat in the winter, and use air-condition in the summer etc....

That may be true but I did run for office as a green, I am writing for a local indi-news paper, I recycle, I teach art and educate all my students about the environment. We do lots of environmental awareness art.

I taught a class for art teachers on environmentalism and artists and current works.

I tried to find info on the seriousness of the plight of our earth but couldn't find any articles that would express my position on the unsustainability of our growth.

Do you guys have any suggestions?

discussions on that. He also put in 30 years at FORD and was a union member. I am surprised about his blindness to Wal-mart practices. He keeps saying that all the other companies do it and that's just the way the market works.

So does he know that Walmart, his partially owned company, has stemmed any effort to unionize it's employees?

Or does he think that (as I do partially) their positions do not warrant enough skill to consider themselves a proper union?

of union groups trying to destroy Wal-mart.

I used to work at wal mart. I'll tell him about their shitty practices.

should expect to stay there for very long. However, when they come to your town and put out of business the businesses that pay a decent wage with benefits he doesn't realize that there is nowhere else to work. Wal-mart employees over 1.3 million people.

You're right, b/c of Bush's job market it's the only place some people can find work, and they're forced into low-wage drudgery.

you are a consumer, so don't buy his trash talk about you having a car, etc, etc. As for getting through to him, his belief system is obviously far different from yours. I wish you luck, even if you get cited sources, because I fear he won't listen.

I don't know about air-conditioning (I don't know where you live) but why can't you use heat?

Hey, it's not your fault if your father makes unethical investments.

Until, he starts losing money, probably talking to a brick wall.

Until your father gets a taste of what he is really backing he will never see the trees because the forest gets in his way. Sorry to say stock investors are the blind sheep that can see no wrong with the companies they own stock in. I know one such person who thinks his shares of oil stocks will pay his way through the gas price gouging. Until he see's his stocks serve him in no way he will continue to cheer the oil companies on.

because it assuages his conscience & rationalizes his belief in the inherent superiority of short-term profit oriented American Capitalism.

call his bluff. give up the AC & walk or ride a bike over to his house. he can't really expect you to give up heat, but it will become his argument of last resort.

Might as well give up your gas or electric stove, because they didn't have those back in the old days, or running water, or electricity, or indoor crapper. Oh, and clothes, unless you want to go out and make yer own!!

Best bet is to AGGRESSIVELY DISENGAGE from political discussion. It goes nowhere when someone is "determined" to prove themselves right--the goal is the ARGUMENT, that it what gives the old man delight. Dismiss the whole argument with a single tagline, along the lines of "Well, if it makes you happy supporting a company that is helping to turn America into a third world nation, more power to ya, pa!! How 'bout them Red Sox???" If pressed to engage, REFUSE, say "I am right, you WILL be proven wrong, and I don't want to fight about it...planning on watching the Olympics this year???"

Aggressive disengagement--it's the only way to maintain family relationships when you have a kook from the dark side in your midst. And the old fools aren't getting any younger, so best to just stand yer ground with a single sentence, refuse to take it further, and go on to other stuff.

his old man has set the standard: be perfectly enlightened or i don't have to listen to you. its not realistic, of course, but giving up the AC shows you're serious.

and it IS winter, so it doens't really hurt to give it up. once the argument is won, then you can go back to killing the planet. :sarcasm:

seriously, there's no way to convince someone who won't listen. history will bring the folly of his beliefs to his door.

My mom always voted "Right To Life" across the board. I told her she could be voting for "Hitler" but she was fine with that, as long as he was "Right To Life".

Dap

me... I'm on the computer, looking to see what the person has done in the past, what their view is on things that are important to me...

I guess it's like with people who throw darts to see what stocks to invest in :-)

Dap

Get him to watch it.

http://www.walmartmovie.com/

So, what is dear old Dad's hope for the future? Since the only alternative viewpoint he would consider listening to is, by his accusation, one that practices only what it preaches, does he pay attention to the message or the source? Are only "pure" sources eligible to be listened to? And what does he say when confronted with the perfect, "pure" source? I'd bet a dollar to a hole in a donut that he waves a dismissive hand and denounces the source as some hippy, dippy tree-hugger divorced from reality.

It must be nice to have such a self-serving philosophy that can counter any criticism or new information by merely denouncing the source. For shame.

our discussion. I really couldn't argue anymore as I do drive a car etc.... He had me on all that and I was stuck. But, your words are true and comforting.

Wal-Mart has been hurting lately. They have gigantic public relations problems. The main issue is labor problems. Wal-Mart is seen as a user, a destroyer of communities, and people are waking up to this.

Last year, there was a "Buy Blue" boycott of Wal-Mart. People were encouraging others to go shop at Costco and "Dump Wal". It worked. Their sales were down by 4% last year, and Costco's was up 10%.

The economy is starting to contract. It's going to be downhill from here. Tell him to dump the stock.

an American loses their job.

"Is Wal-Mart Good for America?" PBS Frontline documentary

The documentary can be purchased from the PBS store at: http://www.shoppbs.org/product/index.jsp?productId=1889876&cp=1412583&view=all&parentPage=family , or watched for free via streaming video (high and low bandwidth links available) at: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/walmart/view/

The documentary shows how large numbers of middle class jobs are disappearing from the USA without any likely prospects of new jobs paying comparable salaries being created to replace them. It shows how the trend has really taken off since Wal-Mart forces their suppliers to cut prices to the bone in order to lower the cost to Wal Mart and how Wal Mart is not shy to advocate that suppliers should move production overseas to meet their pricing demands.

It examines the lock that Wal Mart has on the suppliers due to it's enormous size and how it uses that size advantage to force competitors to accede to their pricing demands even if it means that it will force the supplier out of business. This was the case of the Rubbermaid company who were forced out of business as a result of their efforts to meet Wal Mart's pricing demands. When the price of their raw materials increased significantly, Wal Mart refused to let them pass on any price increase and told them they would have to swallow it. Rubbermaid company execs even went to Wal Mart to try to explain to them how they would have to go out of business if they were not allowed some break on the prices. Wal Mart told them to go piss up a rope. As a result, Rubbermaid folded and went out of business with a large chunk of their equipment bought up for bargain basement prices and moved overseas.

The documentary also looks at the plight of middle aged workers and skilled tradesmen who suddenly loose their jobs in a manufacturing plant when production closes down to be moved overseas and who have little hope of getting another job which can maintain their middle class lifestyle. Often the only new jobs being created in their home town are working at Wal Mart stocking shelves for $6 an hour with minimal or no benefits.

The documentary is not entirely one sided, as it does have interviews with Wal Mart execs and statements by Wal Mart spokespeople who are allowed to make their points (corporate spin) about how great it is for Americans that they can now get their plastic trinkets and microwave ovens at rock bottom prices (although that's not always the case as the documentary explains) thanks to the superior marketing and logistics planning skills of Wal Mart's executives. However, taken in context with all the other points made about the giga retailer's retailing practices, Wal Mart doesn't come off looking very good at all, IMHO.

http://www.walmartmovie.com/

Watched it again the other night. :mad:

The millions of tax dollars going to pay their "full time" employees for "assistance" pisses me off to no end. And that's just the beginning.

Do the two of you have a veiled affection thing going on? Or have you chosen your course of actions as a reaction to his?

political discussions began when Bush started to talk about Iraq. I was asking lots of questions trying to understand what was going on. That's when I discovered DU by the way. I tried to educate myself on all the issues of the day. I did lots of reading here. Hours upon hours upon days upon weeks.

I choose my course of action based on my passion for justice and human rights.

In some families, affection isn't expressed directly. It's mixed or covered with something else. Teasing, argument, anger, etc.

when we were little, still does. He never said I love you or gave hugs or anything. I know now he loved us but then I was not so sure. He is a good man.

Wall Street wants more employee cuts and more profit for the shareholders (as if they arent already screwing their labor force)

The problem with capitalism is stockholders. Its all about making them more money which means less wages and higher prices. It also means outsourcing and jobs going to communist third world countries. They ignorte the people who made them what they are and shove a knife into their backs ..all for that shareholder. I hate that predatory BS. People making money off of people who work for a living are scabs.

I am sorry but when someone says something like that it's best to either avoid politics or base your relationship on a hi or bye basis. Be brief and cordial with your dad and avoid long conservations.

You're better off looking at several indicators such as wealth distribution, income distribution, rates of home ownership, cost of living vs. wages, etc. instead of just one all-encompassing number.

GDP sucks as a measure of happiness and the blood, sweat, and tears of the people who built this world.

The Exxon Valdez oil spill disaster in Alaska caused the US GDP to increase.

She bought it a few years ago when it looked like it would be a good investment. She's not really political and was unaware of Wal-mart's practices. But now she wants to sell the stock, but the stock has gone down 15 bucks a share.

So who knows. I don't think she would take a loss but it doesn't look like the stock is going up any time soon.

EDIT: My mom voted against Bush twice.