Had a Talk with my hillbilly yard-man and I was schocked - They hear!

BECAUSE SOME HERE ON DU TAKE EVERY THING PERSONALLY, THE STORY BELOW IS REAL, SOME OF THE TERMS I USE ARE NOT 100% PC, I CHOOSE THEM FOR A REASON, AND THAT IS TO PAINT THE PIC OF THE CHANGES IN THE AREA. TONY CALLS HIMSELF A REDNECK, IT IS HIS TERM. IT IS CALLED A LITERARY DEVICE

I live Harpers Ferry WV, it is an odd place because you have a lot of imports (me) that commute into Washington DC to work, and you have the locals. Now I know you have heard a lot of jokes about West VA, and most of them are true, very very true.

So last night I was on the phone chatting with my yard man, a late 30's married 2 kids ol' boy, that dips and does yards to make ends meet (He works at the Trek Decking plant near by as a day job). He was kinda afraid to call me, because he was telling me that he had to raise his rates.

"Mark, I will understand if you drop me, but I have to raise the price this year, gas is just to high"

I knew this was coming, and it was going from $50 to $60, I agreed. I made the comment "Well you should send a personal thank you to Bush, this is his doing..."

Now I have spoken to him in the past and knew he was a Bush supporter, most of his type are, RED NECK, HS educated, NASCAR FAN, and so on. You all know the type. He is a great guy, does not really watch the news. He was a single issue voter, the NRA, and hunting.

So his response to my comment blew my mind...

"George Bush can s*** my balls"

I replied, "I thought you were a big Bush fan Tony"

"I was, but do you know Mark that he gave that gals name out, you know the gal that worked for the CIA

I said, "Yes Tony, you know what that makes him?"

and he said in all its glory, "A FUCKING TRAITOR!, and did you know he wants to go to war with Iran now too! I am not sure that he is going to make it to the end, they need to impeach his ass before he sells us to the Muslims..."

I mean this guy was mad as hell!

I explained that I knew and I am glad to see that the news is filtering down to him. He is just a good ol' red neck, not the church nuts...

I share this with you so you can see that the masses are starting to see the light...

and he might be saved altogether.

far and wide! :applause: :applause:

Henhouse; How the Republicans Stole the South..." by Steve Jarding and Dave (Mudcat) Saunders. It discusses NASCAR and the NRA among many other things.

It's looking that way. The RNC is very worried that's going to happen and then us lefties will have our way with the country.

BWAAAAAHHH!!!!

to describe someone?

I guess intellectuals must also be a "race" now, and we can call those who are anti-intellectualism "racists".

:eyes:

It's a better story without the label.

I see pickup trucks almost everyday with stickers on the window that say "Redneck." There is a hit country song about "redneck girls." Living in Texas, I'd say "redneck" is more like a term of endearment, rather than a slur.

I much prefer that term than "redneck" or "hick", terms that have all been thrown at my family over the years for being farmers. We're hillbillies dammit! :D

Reneck is more typical here than hillbilly. Both terms roll off the tongue easier than "country boy," which is basically how I interpret it. My redneck brother is an operator at a chemical plant, and has a damn fine house, and is putting his step kids through college. There's nothin' in the Texas rule book sayin' you can't be successful, have nice things, and still be a redneck! They don't make you give up your membership card if you read too much and like to golf either! :rofl:

It could definitely be a regional thing (we're from Vermont).

are proud to be redneck. I'm proud NOT to be. That's just a difference of opinion. Of course, they still support the preznit I think - we don't talk politics. After all, I'm a yankee now (lived in MA over half my life). We love each other just the same!

"Yankee Rednecks", lol! They fit the stereotype, they know it, and they're certainly not ashamed of it (more of a badge of honor in his town). My father also works with "wine and brie intellectuals". He doesn't see one group as "better" then the other; the Yankee rednecks aren't superior because they are "hard working blue collar folks" (some are, some aren't). The intellectuals aren't superior because of their advanced degrees or sportcars. My father breaks them up into two categories; Republican assholes and Democrats who he calls "friend". There's some of each in each group.

People will describe themselves as "rednecks" (proudly); but if some Yuppie-type walked into a bar & called someone a redneck, there'd be a fight brewing.

One can generally tell when a term is meant as an endearment, a fact, or an insult.

My family were all Yankees, and when we came to Texas, we got a lot of flack for that. But if someone called me a Yankee with a scowl, I could tell the difference from someone saying, "She's a Yankee," as strictly a reference to the fact that I had a different accent or whatever.

And that's something that's easily lost in an Internet forum. And it also has to do w/the context - is the person speaking about "us" (good-naturedly) or "them" (insultingly). So, a good deal would depend on whether the OP considered himself "a redneck" or not. IMO, the tone here was fairly condescending, but it's impossible to be certain w/o knowing the OP or the context. So, I'm not offended as much as entertained at the outcry, the outcry against the outcry, etc.

was that he seemed completely oblivious to his own yawning and cavernous gaps in
his perceptions of who is audience (here on the DU board) is. Its a kind of
rudeness that ticks me off. It also is symptomatic (my theory) of what is wrong
with the party.

I don't think the OP meant his words (the one I cringe at is 'hillbilly') as an insult...its
just that he apparently goes about his everyday life thinking that people
he feels better educated and more cultered than are lesser. That his enlightened
views are 'finally' making it 'down' to these lesser-types.

Poor man.

I got the idea that he likes the guy, and if he was commenting on his intelligence at all, it was just in relation to the way I consider Bush voters to be lacking in real knowledge of what Bush really is, not that he was less educated, or inferior by nature.

I think you are actually as guilty of assuming things about him as you are accusing him of assuming things about 'rednecks.'

I respect the hell out of him, he works very hard, he is also very happy.

It my be a shock to some here, but he is happy.

If there's one trend I've noticed, it's that people seem to be more miserable & neurotic the more financially successful they are.

You see, I post stuff that is real, I do not spend hours mincing my words to make sure that I do not offend anyone, because to be very honest, I do not give a shit about YOUR hang-ups. And they are YOUR hang-ups, just because you do not like the term hill-Billy I should care how? My post was meant to show those that bothered to read it that some of the masses (Yes I said masses) are starting to get what we on this board have known for ages. There are 88,000 out of 350,000,000 that have an account on this board, so most people are the masses

I also find it fucking shocking the hypocrisy on this board, every fucking one of you are a bunch of elitist snobs, want to know how I came up with this deduction? You have the TIME and the EQUIPMENT to sit on this site and bitch about people that post. This means that most of you do not work, or work at a desk where you can follow posts like this all day. I know for a fact that a casher or fruit picker does not have the luxury of posting on this forum all day.

I also hate to break it to you, the world does in fact have classes, and as much as your white guilt forces you to try to make everyone equal, they are not. Do I have a yard man, yes I do, my disability forces this on me. Do I have a housekeeper, no, I do that myself. I also have a HVAC guy, and handyman and an accountant, I went to school, I work hard, and I get to have things that come with the hard work I did.

You just don't get it.

I can't understand why people worry abou these terms - these folks are proud of what they are - rednecks!

I would NEVER use the term "hillbilly" in a pejorative fashion like that.

And to be honest, you guys are really overdoing it with the term racist. You need to learn what the hell it means, and stop it everytime someone says something about someone.

The people who I know who have 'red necks' are proud of the work they do and think everybody else is lazy and weak. My family would be horrified to hire someone to 'do their lawn' -- if you are healthy then you should do it yourself.

"Red" isn't a racist reference to Native Americans. I am ashamed of our nation's racist behavior re: Native Americans -- genocide and beyond. I support Native rights and respect them tremendously.

"Red neck" is acquired by anyone who works outside...

As is the Op's surprise and amusement that his "hillbilly" yard man isn't a complete idiot after all. Nothing elitist there, no sirree.

This guy is lucky he only got called a hillbilly and redneck.

You can take egalitarianism too far. No need to celebrate stupidity or even the dull average.

lacks a college degree and watches NASCAR is stupid?

Or people who watch Nascar.

I just said I don't think there's anything wrong with elitism. I want my heart surgeon to have been first in his class, and I want the country led by the educated and cultured.

I assumed we were both talking about the subject of the current thread. How silly of me.

and cultured. It's at least as important that they should be good people; not benighted intelligensia (by no means an oxymoron), but enlightened, as well as academically educated.

with "dull average" is stupid.

I was defending elitism. I don't think using the term "hillbilly" is necessarily elitist, either, what it is is insulting and rude.

But I really am not engaged in the argument over terms used. I was responding to the idea that there is something negative about elitism.

Look at NASCAR, thats elitist, isn't it? Only the very best rise to the top, they don't have "mediocre driver day" when only average drivers race.

Same with society. Leaders, generals and offficeholders, should be the best and the brightest.

The world needs ditchdiggers, too, and they should be accorded as much respect, their role is as vital and they deserve a living wage. Every person is entitled to dignity and respect, but that doesn't mean you have to shut your eyes and pretend every person is actually equal in talent and ability (as opposed to being equal in the eyes of the law, a different story).

... It's hard to respond to such silliness. "I want my heart surgeon to be first in his class" etc.,

Oh, and by all means give everyone the respect they deserve...

Congratulations on being an elitist.

and if you've ever worked for minimum wage, then you would know that you don't have the TIME to research the issues or find out what the hell is going on in the world-you're just trying to SURVIVE. There's a reason why the republican base is the wealthy AND the working poor; the repugs control the media, so the only bits of information most people who struggle to get by are exposed to are coming from GOP shills on television; not the internet, not podcasts, and not magazines and newspapers.Time for other media sources-unbiased sources-is a luxury for most people.

the OP is displaying some serious classist bigotry. The WVa jokes are all true? WTF is up with that? Substitute an ethnicity instead of a state and all of DU would be up in arms over this post. I grew up in Appalachia, and I personally find the use of the word "hillbilly" by an outsider offensive.

I worked for the minimum wage back when it was $3.00/hr, btw. I've done menial labor of all sorts, indoors and out. You're lecturing the wrong guy on the hardships of poverty.

As thought this person, wealthy enough to hire a "Hillbilly" to do her yardwork, is surprised that such a "hillbilly" could possibly be smart enough to see that Bush is an idiot.

That story is rife with classism. Sorry, I know that the OP said she/he chose words for a reason, but it was snooty!

I mean, the OP went to GREAT LENGTHS to prepare people for the language. Sheesh. Give it a rest.

He should have called him a moran!

I was wating for the first person to miss the point and post something to this effect.

It's predictable and to be expected - there is always someone more worried about being politically correct than understanding the point.

I'm glad he used those terms - it made me nod my head - yup, I KNOW the type. Those people are at a place I hang out at times - they call themselves rednecks & make fun of people like themselves. At least they can poke fun of themsleves - unlike the politically correct who totally miss the point.

As for racist, yeah, not many blacks or asians would be called a redneck.

So what?

I think that's what you are saying.

I live in Arkansas and most people we would call "redneck" proudly describe themselves as such. It's a lifestyle, not a race!

I just love all these personal stories of revelation. Yes, they should have figured it out long ago but I still enjoy seeing the Kool Aid wear off. KKKKarl must be frantically stirring a new batch and setting out the little cups.

Of course, here in the northeast even our GOP aren't quite as rabid as they are in other parts of the country. But even the hardass business types are simply disgusted.

....i would never hire a bushie to do any job around my house.

Bless his heart.

He should dump NASCAR for NHRA, however

-85% Jimmy

Bizz is bizz, politics is politics

....and i believe in putting the economic squeeze on any trash that would vote for the anti-american party of terrorists (aka GOP).

One attraction of most countries popular with American retirees is "cheap servants."

but i'm from the states and lived there up until a year ago. and when i hired someone to work at my house i would pass over repukes for dems and greens.

What do the proles do for fun?

Do they have any colorful expressions that I can share with the rest of the fellows in the steam bath?

(I was born and raised in West Virginia by the way. And I went to college. An Ivy League one at that. Imagine that).

No elitism there. :eyes:

Is this true?

like that.

:eyes:

You know, stereotypes become stereotypes BECAUSE they are so instantly recognizable. They exist. And, as Tony shows, there is almost always a deeper, more complex person within that stereotype.

So many of the posts above are so hung up on the PC factor that they are missing the point of the posting. These are the people that Dean was talking about when he said we need to reach the guys with the confederate flag on their pickup, the guys who watch NASCAR.

The point is, we ARE reaching them.

flying off the handle because someone used a term that makes THEM nuts... Some people are so full of guilt for some reason that they can not see past a term like Redneck or yard man...

Thanks for reading my post and getting the point.

Now I am going to go back to flogging my maid for not cleaning the towle racks...

If some folks on DU don't find *something* to be offended by here every day, they will hemmorage and fall down.

not hemmorage.

Not so dumb hillbilly. :)

:rofl:

There comes a point where the slightest hint of anything other than perfect propriety is deemed un-PC and people become afraid of opening their mouths completely. The best lesson to learn is to welcome ALL to the fold, and show respect for them regardless of their eccentricities. If we show we can accept even those who aren't always the most considerate, we can show inclusion is our motivation, NOT elitism.

A friend and I were discussing the issue of those who are undereducated, and why they are Bush supporters in the first place. What it boils down to is that they vote on an emotional level, and when the GOP waves the red, white and blue and says that liberals are communists, who are going to take away their guns and their belief systems, they would rather vote against their own best interests instead of understanding what the GOP is doing to them. And Dems will often reinforce that by some of their attitudes, and elitism IS one of those attitudes. If we ourselves can't learn to accept everyone, warts included, how the hell are we ever going to be a unified party?

The GOP IS unified--it's unified by its intolerance, its hatred, its goals and its agenda. Until the Dems can claim such "togetherness" we will always be shown as the party of prigs.

You get more offended about someone slamming a(any) Boston sports team but those of us who actually LIVE in WV are supposed to have a sense of humor about being insulted. Sorry, not today. Maybe tomorrow I'll say something about the DLC so you can have your own something to be offended about. Just take it with some self-deprecating humor.

That's a hoot.

Yankees suck.

Oh that's good.

:-)

the Democratic Party. It is an outrage that this part of the Dems was ever up for grabs in the first place.

One who likes sports, has hunted, goes fishing, is a college dropout drinks cheap beer, and who moonlights as a yardman on the side as well, I say, Tell 'em Tony!

First, I am a liberal. My family has always been democrat. My family is from the
hills of Eastern Kentucky. But it's attitudes like yours that are my only real
check on whole hearted support for the left.

How nice that you discover that the news is 'filtering DOWN to him"...from your
olympian heights.

My parents were both college educated. I have post grad degree. But, in your eyes
I am a hillbilly. Yes, the news 'filters' DOWN to me too....

I suppose you are descended from royalty...all your family is highly cultured and
you are a swell fellow.

Hooray for you. So good of you to speak to your yard man.

I note you mention he has a family and works two jobs. Just so you know, that's a
hard road.

Maybe you and the weaned liberal left should consider why we ever lost people like
him in the first place. I can tell you one reason is that segments of the democrat
party are snobs with snob interests.

Thanks for sharing your news.

It's pretty clear that if the Democrats were in control, this yard guy might have to face the terrifying prospect that his kids might do better than him. Imagine the horror of working for a living wage at just one full-time job, sending his kids to good schools, and the prospect of post-high school education and training.

Thankfully, the GOP is in power to make sure that none of the Tonys or their progeny rise above their station.

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SO you HATE me. Thanks.

Well, after all, it was me that had the audacity to resent your arrogant insult to
me (as I AM A "HILLBILLY")

Thanks.

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not only do people see in a post what their own frame of reference allows them to see but that people jump into a thread to post without reading everything first to see whether their big issue has already been addressed. I have to admit that I have done it myself, especially when a thread is long enough that you have the choice of whether to read the whole thread.

So, I'm with you on this--and in being smart enough to keep an eye on the "MY DU" box. It seems that very few people do--or else we have a whole lot of people that don't care whether a subsequest post (like this one) has demolished their own "highly reasoned" analysis. They're too busy going off to slay other dragons.

Snob interests such as wanting to raise the minimum wage?

Have you ever considered how Repubs got people such as Tony to vote against their own interests?
One reason is the RW myth of snob liberals with snob interests.

Did you read the original post in this thread?

You missed the point... How much guilt do you carry?

speaking in generalities, to make a larger point about "paradigm shifts" such as the one mentioned in the OP is a literary tool that is not all that politically correct among the PC snobs, but is useful in helping to describe a shift in culture or attitudes. it sounds like you're taking things WAY too personally...i am glad Ioo posted this because it is good to know that the folks who support Bush are finally "getting it". the news up until now has NOT been reaching them...the echo chamber has been pretty effective at obliterating most of the facts that we who peruse the blogs and internet news sites have been privy to over the past five years.

before you go off on me, let me say that i was married into a family of self-declared "rednecks" and lived thusly for 25 years. these folks (my hubby and inlaws) live in CA but fit the description of OP yard-man pretty well. not much interest in the news. pretty amped up by nationalism, patriotic bullshit such as spewed by Rush and Hannity. not much interested in what i'd call "critical thinking". i am myself the daughter of pretty intelligent but very impoverished, hard-working parents (the result of too many children - no birth control available to my mom), and to call my dad a "redneck" would have gotten someone into a fistfight real quick.

so i see a divide between those who think what the most patriotic guy on the block says to think and those who bother to think for themselves. you might take offense but just as "elite" draws a picture of a type of person, so does "redneck" --- blame it on language and the human tendency to categorize people, places, things and events.

The OP is snobby according to a self-ascribed hillbilly who is offended by the OP calling someone else (a self ascribed redneck) a hillbilly.

how snobby and indecent an idea!

One of my best friends is (as he calls himself) a Redneck. He accepts me and I accept him. One thing in common with this city boy... brains and we are both in the same boat!:sarcasm:

"filtered down" in my understanding would mean down past all the lies of the right wing spin machine. My brother grew up in a democratic household, but he works with a bunch of (pardon me, but it's true) redneck guys who listen to crap like Rush all day at work. Since that is almost all he hears, he has absorbed it and believes it. He believed the Swift Boat BS, for example. To me, "filtered down" would refer to things like the fact that he has finally started hearing things Rush and Fox don't want him to know, like about the potential of yet another war. Some of the local radio BS he listens too has actually finally started to turn on Bush, so yes, "bad" news is finally "filtering down" to Bush supporters. That means more about them being misinformed, and getting one side of the story, as opposed to something "filtering down" from someone "superior."

But then, I think some folks need to be pissed off about things, so they look for things to take offense to. Not necessarily you, because I don't know you well enough to make that kind of statement, but I know some people who are so PC that you can't have a conversation with them without offending them on some level.

I live amongst rednecks, and my brother is one too. They wear it like a badge. Why should it offend US?

He is getting info that he normally would never get from his day to day doings, real info is filtering down to the masses.

And many people around here proudly call themselves "rednecks". To play the devil's advocate.

I hear what you are saying, but I don't think the OP meant any offense in his stereotype.

Now the world knows.

Ioo painted of Tony is real. Also, Ioo wrote in his "preamble" that he was deliberately painting this picture of Tony for the story and he knows some of the terms aren't PC.

would you care to be more specific??

please note my avatar.

:eyes:

In fact the OP saw it coming (which is why there is the bold face preface to the story)

It isn't so much a story about elites vs peasants as it is about somebody who admittedly doesn't much follow the news and is a single issue Republican leaving the Republican party.

As a trailer park raised Democrat who is about three weeks away from a post grad degree I see this as a story about us (Liberals) WINNING--not about how our betters choose to speak to the plebes.

This is why I read, but rarely post in GD there are too many people here who can't wait to start bitching and moaning about some slight or the other, usually imagined.

So how tasty are all those grudges you keep chewing on?

:yourock:

was that the poster that you responded to referred to the Democratic party as the DEMOCRAT part.
Dead giveaway.

I think I caught that, but then got annoyed by the "snob" BS. But you have a certain point.

"Maybe you and the weaned liberal left should consider why we ever lost people like
him in the first place."

POsts like yours. So worried about always being politically correct. I work with repubs every day, many of them decent people who would vote Dem but are afraid of having to walk on eggshells everyday.. oh, I'm sorry.. that's offensive to vegetarians.

I know the type.

I think it's more than just guns & god that have these people support assholes like Bush. I truly believe what it boils down to is race. Unfortunately for many of these people, at least where I live, there was a great deal of both racism and homophobia. Maybe it wasn't overtly out there but conversations held that let you know - I'll share my country with them but I don't want them living near me. Democrats have always been an inclusive party that tries to welcome all races, religion & sexual prefrences (they try, a few kinda suck at it but they mean well). And I have met people that will not vote for a candidate that supports anything that isn't "white like me".

about themselves. He plays the role of being a regular guy well, even though he is about as elite as an American can be. The fact that he is not brilliant is a help with his good ol' boy routine. He doesn't challenge anyone's intellect. That appeals to a lot of folks. Makes them feel comfy and validated, doesn't ask much of them. It's all posturing and camouflage, but it works with about, oh, 33% of those polled ;)

there (along with the more overt kind), and this is a HUGE reason why working people vote against their economic self-interest and vote Repug. (homophobia helps too) They think the Democratic party is too friendly to blacks, gays, etc.

The "Southern Strategy" worked, and it worked well. *****And not just in the South - the repugs get the racist vote all around the country.
LBJ was right when he said that the signing of the Civil Rights Act would cost the Democrats the South for a generation. Again, I'm not bashing the South - substitute "the racist vote" for "the South" in LBJ's statement.

What are those people thinking? I, myself, am too afraid to speak to them.

she is conjecturing? Do tell.

who could possibly be considered Redneck, Hillbilly or "anything" less than the Upper Class of Liberals, regardless of race or location.

Everyone knows we don't know where to put our "X" on those ballots, we need to be kept in our place and educated properly by those who can actually read and understand what's going on in this country and the world. :sarcasm:



We haven't had a "Bashing Our Own" thread since....let me see.......YESTERDAY.




We need everyone's vote. This ain't the way to get them.

...former Bush supporters. I just keep my mouth shut and listen. Its a wonderful thing.

Don

:wow::wow::wow::wow:


Now the common man knows what he did in order to fight terror, let the cleansing begin.

condescension. You make dems look bad when you use such phrases as masses, rednecxks, Nascar fan, etc. You remind me of my mother, a loyal dem but one who uses the same type of language: She has the unsavory habit of referring to the "masses" as the hoi polloi. I live in a rural community and I've been incredibly impressed, over the years, with the wisdom and kindness of those who grew up here. They may or may not be college educated, or Nascar fans, but I'd never demean them with such broad generalizations.

Without the masses we would never have mass movements.

People are looking at the PC trees here and not seeing the damn forest. That's one of the reasons the dems can't seem to get it together -- they've abandoned the principles of mass movements, of unions, of solidarity.

Now we very politely say 'you are a uniquely individual person, regardless of race, gender, ethnicity, etc. etc. etc.' but we don't say

YOU ARE ONE OF US!!!!!

If people self-identify as hillbillies and rednecks, why can't we welcome them WITH that self-identification?

That's one reason we lose so many 'rural-Americans'. Because this kind of PC stuff makes us look silly.

The PC crap is why the Dems are not a force in the rural areas of this nation. No one wants to be chastised for the word redneck.

People really talk like real people out here, they say what is on their mind, not parce their words as to not offend ever. Must be nice to live in a blue state, a state without adjectives, I guess.

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For a moment I thought I was back on the plantation.

So he is my yard man...

His card says, "A Yardman you can count on"

Sorry if Tony's words offended you

I pointed out that it was the overall tone of your post that reflected elitism, not merely a word or phrase.

I have been a yard man (woman) before and I don't consider this post elitist in any way.

Folks like you that create the wedges and keep pushing them in deeper create the "elitist" mentality.

Unfortunately today, most folks have to hire other folks to help them because they are so damned busy they can't do things for themselves or just to have the down time to recharge for the next week.

Employing yard men or house cleaners is not an elitist behavior, it is necessity for many in this day and age. And guess what, it gives folks a way to make a living. If I were 20 again, I would definitely go into landscaping and make my living that way, in the outdoors with nature. Tony is probably happier than you think.

dad shoveled shit at a stockyard during the lean months. I suppose if I called him a shit man someone's spleen would kink. :) Actually, there are few men in the world more dem than my dad. he was a driver, a shoveler and a working man. they talk to each other differently than the white collar professions. They swear and drink and hoot. White collars swear but it sounds false. without muscle work, it sounds odd to me.

We can swelter in the inanity of pc or we can celebrate a man who works harder than he should, who has to dig through the shit to find the news that is true, who has seen the light. God bless you, Tony the yard man. Welcome aboard.

Redneck. Yard man. Working man. Normal man. Done seen the light. Good for him.

You have to say "the guy who operates on me" and so on? LOL!

I guess I should apologize for calling the guys who replaced my roof "my roofers," and the guys who trimmed my trees, "my tree guys."

Get over yourself. Really? So Tony is the quintessential representative of WV? Good for you! Your enlightenment is amazing.

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At least once a month i see on this site disparaging remarks on WV and or its residents. It was a wonderful story, he told it so well. But was the intent to show that people are changing their minds or that even dumb hillbilly's are starting to dislike *? It seemed to be mostly about the rednecks and dip chewing and NASCAR aspects. Once again i will say it. If you can not get to know ALL people without denigrating them how the hell are you going to get their votes?

It wasn't that long ago that you had to take someone like this and give them the whole long-winded story: Joseph Wilson - Niger forgeries - the sixteen words - Brewster Jennings - Valerie Plame - Scooter Libby - etc etc, and even then they didn't get it. This guy has got it and their attempts to muddy the issue aren't working with him. He get's right to the point - "he gave that gals name out, you know the gal that worked for the CIA".
Yes! :bounce:

hope in my heart! Thanks!

anymore either. I used to see Bush stickers on every other car and now they've all vanished. Gore Vidal was on an episode of Politically Incorrect with Bill Maher and he made the statement that when Bush left office, he was going to be one of the most hated men in the world. At the time I thought that was an odd statement to make, but it looks like Mr. Vidal was prophetic.

I found the attitude in your original post insulting.

Just an observation from your hillbilly neighbor in Martinsburg, WV.

"I may be ignorant but I ain't stupid." -- Loretta Lynn

Then she is stupid.

Yall make me sick sometimes.

Who do you think you are, sitting in your fine fancy houses, with your fine fancy jobs that you drive to in your fine fancy cars, all the while looking down at the less fortunate, less educated, but far freer people.

Its no wonder we are so divided.

The parallels between Logan in 24 and Bush in real life
are eerie. They're both serious traitors... and responsible
for so many unnecessary deaths.

I LOVE 24!

Shows people how close fiction is to real life!

Shocking. So nice to see that the teeming masses have joined the enlightened cognoscenti at DU. It's good to know, but the post was a little condescending, IMO. I can understand why so many working-class people get turned off from the Dem party. No one likes being patronized.

a lot more of your regular hard-working Americans would have seen the light a lot earlier.

These people are not stupid at all. They have been manipulated by some of the slickest operators in the history of the world.

Tell Tony we all feel his pain.

eom

TlalocW

I am glad that your hired hand has seen the light about G.W. Bush, but I wish you hadn't chosen to write about him using class stereotypes.

By the way, you might want to clean up some of the typos in your post, lest folks think you're some kind of ignorant redneck:

• ...gas is just to high (or are you attempting to recreate his quaint, rustic speech?)


• ...you have a lot of imports (me) from that commute into Washington DC to work...


• He was kinda of afraid to call me...


• etc.

"Hillbillies" are the one group that many people still feel they can ridicule with impunity. Wellsir, I can tell you that I've lived in the South all my life, and some of smartest people I've ever met were "hillbillies," including the one who turned me on to Lorca's poetry (he read it in Spanish but loaned me an English translation).

So I suggest you drop the defensive attitude about what's "PC" or not and try to see past people's accents and appearance to discern what they're really all about.

My brother lives in Cumberland, MD, just on the border of West-By-God-VA. He calls himself (and most of his friends) a hillbilly. But also laughs when he tells people they should call him an Appalachian American.


He has also noticed that he's no longer the only Bush critic in his town.

I've talked to MANY folks here in the Nashville, TN area that HATE him too. This leak is only going to make people madder.

You can only be evil for so long, then it'll catch up with you.

Even Bush supporters are starting to catch on.

were with Bush on EVERYTHING - there was not one damn thing that the Repukes passed that Bush decided was wrong . . . so the Rubber-Stamp Repukes were complicit in the crimes . . . and they rubber-stamped the idea that there was no need to investigate ANYTHING!

As the year goes on, I will talk to him, he is fun to chat with, I tell him NASCAR sucks and he tells me that only queers drive Yellow Beetles (I have one)...

I will get him to vote Dem this year

would lower himself to do gardening for a gay man! You've got to be picky!

All gay men are not picky...

I hope to god you are joking...

I have a YARD MAN because I live on the side of a mont, and my yard is real steep. I can not moe it myself, because I am disabled (vet) and just can not do it. He does not care that I am gay, because my money spends just like anyone elses. He really just does nto care...

Some of my best friends are them gay types!

I think you won that match!
I'm sure it was in good spirit, right gatorboy?!!

Speaking of elitist though, how about that Tinkerbell?...The little snot! :P

Harper's Ferry was one of my favorite places to go when I lived in Wash DC. It's just beautiful ... and close to the race track too.

I see from your profile that you have been here since 2004 but I'll bet you have gotten some "welcomes" this week just because of your low post count.

They are building a huge hotel here, and there is talk that is MD allows slots that they are going to poen Charlestown to table games...

I read the thread before you put it there, and was wondering how long it would be before you got flamed for your terminology. Not that I think you deserve it at all - I just know some of the people here.

Peace.

but I treat Tony as well as I can, he always leaves with more than the price of the job.

Amendment II Democrats:

http://www.a2dems.net/

I have guns too (I know to some here I am somehow evil for owning guns)

I always recommend it to single issue NRA people.

Great story, thanks for sharing it.

I only hope he gets a raise soon so he won't have to do yard work for the rest of his life.

What's wrong with yardwork? It's an honest living. A good man or small yardwork company can make a very decent living with it, as long as he has some diversification for off-seasons.

I am going to write about my dealings with the lower orders.

Where's the picture? :)

Darjeeling or Earl Grey?

Only British tea will do, and I find that the fine vanilla spices give it a delightful aroma. Thanks, I'm easily amused.

And please do stay--I must share with you the most delightful tale of my gardener and his doings. Shockingly clever fellow, for someone of his class! Sometimes it worries me to see how much they are like us in some ways!

:rofl:

No wait! More!!!

Expressing opinions? How perfectly dreadful! It is so difficult to find proper help these days. This tea is absolutely divine, by the way. I'm so sorry, my dear sir, but I must be off shortly for the society ball. Ah - my carriage awaits. Toodles!

F U

one being we are returning to WV from St. Lucia in August and i'm glad to hear there is an enlightenment of sorts going on there. :)

He sounds like a hard, conscientious worker. There can be no doubt that more Americans would turn against BushCo if they had truth and facts from the M$M, instead of Corporate Media cheerleading.

He said last year that he may not be doing it this year because of gas, So I WAS afraid he was going not be around this year.

YES I retained him, he is great and hard working. His wife helps him and I really like them.

I AM THANKFUL he is here this year.

I have yet to meet a true redneck who was offended by being called a redneck. It's a tag they wear proudly.

Just about the only ones who seem to be squeamish about it are PC Liberals.

When one is talking with contempt about "those rednecks."

But some people are proud of being rednecks. Just as some African-Americans use a word I would NEVER use....

Slur them all you like, it's going to have the opposite effect. They don't care. The only people who will be offended will be PC Liberals.

Texas has more than its share of rednecks. But not all of them are Inbred Ignorant Racist Republican Rednecks.

However, I do not consider it just "PC" to say African-American instead of N*****.

And I'm not offended at all by being considered a "Liberal."

They are not offended by being called redneck, in the same way that you are not offended by being called Liberal.

But we all know how African Americans feel about being called you-know-what, so in their case, you respect their wishes. It's just my opinion that if we have to alter our behavior or follow some line of courtesy, it has to have a purpose or achieve an effect, otherwise, it becomes a hollow ritual, and in this world where there is so much tinder for conflict, we don't need another hollow ritual.

Pull your Mercedes up to a "redneck bar", demand some Chardonnay, and start talking about how "you rednecks" are. Then hold onto your things as you are gracefully tossed onto the curb.

... and they are the real "elitists" that turn off the "masses".

checks and balances this November? They may not want to vote for a Democrat, but they might be willing to vote against Bush.

Born a Mountaineer. Live a Mountaineer. Will die a Mountaineer.

About most of the jokes being very, very true. I want to go on record as having the cleanest dirt floors in a three county area.

That is all.

bushbots, rushbots, etc...come in many forms - Tony just happens to be a less educated, lower income guy - a redneck because HE WORKS OUTDOORS and his neck gets sunburned. The point is, the FACTS are indeed filtering down or through or whatever, thru the right wing noise machine and it.is.glorious.

I can't get over the pc stick people have up their asses around here. Jesus...take a chill pill and raise a glass to TONY!

Cheers Tony!!!!

:toast:

Hillbillies live in the hills. Rednecks can live anywhere.

I'm a hillbilly from East Tennessee and damn proud of it. My people fought for the Union, never owned slaves and take pride in our environment. However, I don't have a redneck bone in my body.

Yea for Tony and thanks for the story, but, please - hillbillies HATE being called rednecks (or what redneck has come to mean - it used to just mean a farmer).

Some hillbilly's really do hate being called rednecks. And they are completely different types. My family originated from the Arkansas mountains (er...Hills!) and are considered hillbilly's.

That's the easiest discernation - hillbillies live in the hills or mountains. "Rednecks" used to mean mid-Western farmers, but, of course, it means "stupid Bush voter" now. LOL.

Which may sound silly to some, but it's true. Hillbillies have always been hard workers, because, let's face it, they lived a extremely hard life.
Some Rednecks, on the other hand, are always looking for a handout, which is what has always confused me about the Right Wing talking point about "Welfare Queens". As much as they love to talk about minorities destroying the system, I have seen rednecks try to take advantage of the welfare system more than anyone else.
I remember one family that would take in foster children so they would get that extra $1,000 check in the mail each month. The same crowd was also into "Crazy Checks". And if anyone is curious as to what hat implies, it's when a parent encourages their child to act up in class, hoping they'll be compensated with a check to help with their child's "mental problems".

I am descended from these folks and I'm Presbyterian and live in Georgia, therefore I am technically a redneck!

also from East Tennessee, thanks you for that clarification. My great grandfather also fought for the Union.

I think of myself as a 'stump jumper'. Living in the elite part of the redneck/hillbilly south, that is Georgia, I sort of resent being termed a hillbilly. It's too, uh, common. But 'stump jumper' works for me.

they were both pejorative. A "redneck" is a malicious resident of the countryside, whether hilly or flatland, whereas a "hillbilly" is a resident of the isolated hilly areas who wears ragged clothes, and who, in the past at least, had a beard like a goat (hence the term hill-billy, billy=goat) didn't like outsiders and preferred that his womenfolk stayed at home and din't get no book learnin'. Kind of ironic since one of the local high school football teams is the Mounties (Mountaineers), and the junior high team until the 1970s was the Ridgerunners-- with mascots of both schools being "Jed Clampett" types holding an old flint rifle and smoking a corn cob pipe. However, outsiders using the term "hillbilly" could get into trouble, and this was the cause of some inter-school fights back in the '60s and maybe before.

Perhaps people in other states might not think of the word "hillbilly" as demeaning, but the word has bitter connotations for some Arkansans who have seen their state denigrated in the past as the "hillbilly state" in "Slow Train Through Arkansas", the story of the Arkansas Traveler, cartoons like the Flintstones (Hatrocks feudin' with the Flintstones in "Arkanstone"), Bugs Bunny gettin' the best of two feudin' hillbillies in the Ozarks in "Hillbilly Hare", and even Bill Clinton, one of the smartest men who has ever occupied the White House, being denigrated as a "hillbilly".

It sort of blows the idea of single issue voters being:

It would seem that Tony is not a single issue voter anymore. He is concerned with corruption, Plame and selling out to the A...rabs, and also economics, the price of fuel, war with Iran. I'd say he is actually a multi-issue voter. Probably has always been a multi-issue voter.

It's too bad he didn't mention OSHA and the gutting of mine safety in favor of corporations, but I imagine that Tony is far from ignorant on this issue either.

Fact is, I think Tony was never a single issue voter and it was the ignorance that's rampant within our party, that has failed Tony to address his concerns at the voting booth. Bashing NASCAR, the NRA is not the way to win Tony. Tony is not stupid, no matter what his academic standing. Maybe ignorant, but again that is our party's fault failing to educate him on the real issues, not his fault at all.

So, as you point out, Tony is waking-up, I would think the time is right, for our party leadership to take advantage of our oppositions weaknesses, and help Tony along the path of Truth, Justice and the American way. That is...our way.

Nor is the NRA and hunting a thing that our party is strictly against. We have many members of the NRA within our party, so why would anyone think otherwise. That is a label the Republicans laid on us in the past, to get Tony to vote for them. I might add, it was our failed response to address the issue to Tony. A past conflict that our leadership failed miserably. Let's not make that same mistake again.

BTW, would you pass the Grey Poupon?

So, that was the ONLY reason. He is under the clear thought that Dems want to take his guns away, Period!

Now I know this is not true, but the fact is the GOP has painted ALL Dems (I know we have some here) as wanting to take away their guns...

For example, we might explain that within the inner cities there is a war going on for our children. On one side,due to a lack of educational resources and a flooding of the streets with narcotics by agents of our own government, our children have come to believe the only way they can become successful is to traffic in narcotics. It's the main source of employment. Now on the other side, is another part of our government, that has military weapons, swat teams, etc, thus in a way for these children to succeed is to match the police weapon for weapon. Then there is competition for neighborhood areas to sell these narcotics. The results of all this can be viewed as war. Thus in these neighborhoods there is a real need to limit weapons.

But you know, the SCOTUS addressed this issue, by stating more or less the communities themselves could decide for themselves whether or not to permit owning weapons. It's a local issue, so why has parts of our party attempted to deny weapons, primarily for hunting in WV at the Federal, Constitutional level. The SCOTUS has said it can be both, allowed at federal level and the locals themselves can determine what's right for them where they live.

To me gun are not an issue.

Now the issue of lack of educational opportunities/money, that should be an issue to us all, and the Repubs played us on that issue also. Look at this horse manure NCLB and the vouchers and the federal money going to churches for education. That is money that should be going to public education, as the taxes come from the public. So why is this money going to private education. We been played on this issue also.

The narcotics issue is another. Why is it, the CIA can make money on this, and be allowed to push their dope on the poor neighborhoods, yet the police are unable or maybe the politicians are unwilling to deal with this issue, with the CIA? And why is it, certain harmless things, like weed be penalized so harshly.

I'd say all in all, the Democratic Party has failed 'The people' in the past. And it is our party's fault in allowing all these issues to be framed by these liars in the Republican Party.

We need to own what is ours, and make sure the Repubs own what is theirs, in the area of failing to educate Tony.

Please, don't get me started on our party's failure to support unions and economic parity with the wealthy corporate owners, thus making life difficult for people like Tony. Our system has screwed Tony, for his entire life and somehow Tony is supposed to be on our side?

But then again I am a far right Dem, I speak for myself, I do not buy into all this PC BS, I am pro gun and pro life and pro small gov.

To me the issues are about what's right for 'The people'. Because that is the purpose of government, to secure for the people....

The spectrum of how we view ourselves has many axis, it's not just right vs left. In the end, we must acknowledge what others need, as well as our own needs. To me, that defines a progressive agenda, a populous agenda if you will.

Not true for all Dems, but there are a number on the national level who do want to take your guns away if those guns are rifles with handgrips that stick out, handguns/rifles holding more than 10 rounds, or shotguns holding more than 5 shells.

THAT is where the problem lies, and it's what hurt Gore so badly in 2000 and Kerry in 2004...most gun owners aren't hunters or skeet shooters, so skeet shotguns and bolt-action deer rifles really aren't the issue and never have been, IMO.

my posts seem to think that what I object to is the OP not being PC. What
the OP's post reveals to me thru is non-PC comments is that there is a severe
strain of elitism in the democrat party.

In my opinion, its this snobbish elitism that has turned many people away from
the party. And god forbid that you point out a liberal snob's prejudice to
him or her...that's so insulting! But the fact remains that prejudging a person
is, in my opinion wrong.

I am a hillbilly. My family is. There is a strong strain of 'traditional values'
running through that world view. Stuff like being honest, taking care of your
neighbors. Hard work. Taking care of your family. Justice.

All those issues are, in my opinion, what the Democrat party is supposed to represent.
But, we ceded all that to the Republicans somehow.

I think we need to stop thinking that our party will succeed in the future merely
by not being Republican. We need to put forward our own values, our own plans
for America.

But, when it comes to us Rednecks and Hillbillies...offer something more than
shrill outrage and patronizing attitudes.

as well as his message. If having learned enough to not be fooled by the commercial media makes me an elitist, then I will gladly wear that badge. Populism is a good thing, but indulging dumbass "logic" is not.

And I do not see that "hillbilly" & "redneck" are necessarily slurs. Especially since you're saying good things about this guy.

(I've been to Harper's Ferry & found it quite beautiful.)

Geez, the guy was just writing a story. Lighten up people.

and read the story for the good news it was meant to convey. Jeez.

West Virginia was a blue state until the last two presidential elections. Do you REALLY believe it was all about guns?

We have 2 Dem Senators, we have 2 of 3 Congressmen. I live in WV-2 the only RED one.

Bush convinced the coal industry workers that Gore was going to obliterate the WV coal industry.

Excellent!

Where do YOU live? I'm in WV, thanks.

Is there a monument to John Brown by any chance? He knew the Civil War was coming and hated slavery with a passion.

His name is all over the place

It's one of the oldest American grapevines outside of prisons and beauty salons.

are all kin. :sarcasm:



I am schocked the manner in which this story was written is not seen as total and complete, elitism.

It is good news when a Republican has changed his mind. It's possible many of his friends and family have, also.


This would have been a great story "if" some of labels had been left out.

If someone chooses to call himself a Hillbilly, Redneck or pile of crap, that's ok.

It's not ok for anyone else to do it...


Would the OP show this story to Tony ?

Most Rednecks a) identify themselves as such and b) don't appreciate well-meaning vocabulary police getting righteously indignant on their behalf. Labelling is the basis of human communication. Lighten the fuck up already.

New Label or stereotype for posting an opinion ?

righteously indignant well-meaning vocabulary police

I'm sorry for you. You're going to have a hard time dealing with most people until you get over that.

As for my coinage, you just call it whatever makes you feel comfortable, and I promise not to accuse you of labelling.

Which you either got or missed. If you didn't, I am sorry for you.

The point being, if this story is ok and those who oppose it should "chill" or "lighten up" as some have said,

Would the OP show it "unedited" to Tony ?