Opinions on this local police practice, please? (Any legal minds around?)

About a year and a half ago, I went out to my car one morning and found a slip of paper on my windshield. It said at the top, below the local police seal, "You could have been a victim of a crime!" There was an itemized list of several potential things to be checked by the officer. The one checked was "Valuables in plain sight." (I had a small clock radio on the passenger's seat.) At the bottom was the date, time, and officer's name.

This morning, I found another one. This time the checked item was "Doors left unlocked" and the slip of paper was inside the car, on the driver's seat. I guess I forgot to lock the car last night, but the officer who left the note locked it for me.

Both of these instances happened in apartment complexes, if that makes any difference...

police want to prevent crimes, and they know how people can change their behavior to keep from being victims, and they're letting them in on the secrets.

If I want to leave a clock radio in my car that is my business.

and the cop just caused a whole lots of problems cause he stuck his nose in and decided what was best for another. nanny anyone. i dont think it is the business of the cops to be locking my car, or going in to check to see if a door is locked in house and then locking on the way out......

leave it the f* alone.

Back in my younger days a few different people were all driving my car, so I left it with the keys in it at all times.

So they leave it unlocked.


My cousin left her car unlocked because she didn't want anyone to break the windows if they checked it for valuables. :shrug:

i have a remote thing. it stopped working a while ago. i couldnt get in my car if i locked it, until i went to dealership to get it reset

it bothers me that people on this thread feels they have the right to butt into others business, to keep them safe or anything else, when they have no information, knowledge or facts. seems like an absurd way of running another persons life and making other peoples decisions.

open a door and turn of the lights as a friendly gesture.

I'm sorry, but I don't. The last thing I need is to be attacked or arrested for being in someone else's car. :(

I take it that your car was parked somewhere out in the open (as opposed to being in a garage)?

Cops (and anyone else) can look through your windows and make note of what they see. If they want to actually get inside the car and look around, that calls for a warrant.

Although mildly intrusive and somewhat paternalistic, I don't see any kind of malicious abuse of police power here.

I'd rather the cops left my car alone, if i've committed no violation. I will assume my own risks, thank you very much.

Seems like a way to keep people on edge, unnecessarily. "You could have been the victim of a crime." Yeah, i also could have had a rare aneurysm or had a part from a airplane fall out of the sky and onto my car. But, i don't worry about that stuff, and i don't particularly worry about being a crime victim. This seems like a way to remind us of the "danger".
The Professor

I don't have a problem with the flashlight search through the window, really.

Going into my car seemed a little...scary.

if anyone enters your car without your permission it is either a crime (tresspassing) or a violation of your civil rights.....

While that may or may not have constituted a "search" that implicates a 4th Amendment violation, entry into your car without your permission probably constitutes a common-law trespass or "trespass to chattels." If you are concerned about this conduct, you should seek competent legal advice from someone in your area with experience in civil rights and police misconduct law.

I've got to learn to read more carefully.

Plus, of course, the fearmongering i mentioned before. They put the note IN the guy's car. I dunno about that.
The Professor

but my cynical side begs me to ask these questions: Can we be absolutely sure a cop wouldn't decide to poke around the car a bit while he's/she's there? What if he'd seen a bag of weed hidden under the seat while he'd been there? Can he knock on your door and arrest you for that?

and then they don't need a search warrant, IIRC. I'm not an expert in 4th Amendment law or criminal procedure (I do civil litigation), so I defer to those DUers who are licensed attorneys practicing in those areas.

To be honest, my guess is that the rules change at that point, and that they have to get a warrant.
However, I once again need to defer to my colleauges who actually practice in the areas of criminal procedure and 4th Amendment law, as I would be speculating to try to give a concrete answer here.

I'd say get yourself a large, hungry, vicious rattlesnake, and leave him in your unlocked car at night. See how many more of these BS police visits you get:evilgrin:

Seriously, I think that this is BS on your local PD's part. Sure, they're allowed to look into your car, but I think it is rather nanny-ish to be leaving notes on the windshield, especially over something like a clock radio.

And then to actually open the door and leave a note on your seat, I would have to cry foul. Who knows what else he did while he was in there? Here in my little city we just had a cop busted for stalking his ex, to the point that he attached a GPS unit to her car. Who knows what kind of personalities are on your PD.

If this continues, ie leaving notes inside your car, I would have a serious talk with the PD, and if that fails, write a critical letter to the editor of your local paper.

I think what I may do is call the police dept. and tell them that I had the door unlocked for a reason. The lock is broken, and you can't use a key from the outside. So it took me over an hour to get into my own car this morning. Oh, and also, there are about a dozen CDs missing. And, oh yeah, I can't find the $300 cash I had in the glove compartment for emergencies.

I wonder what they would do....

thought he was helping, he shouldn't have locked the door for you. You may have had a good reason to leave the doors open and that's your call, not his, unless there's some crazyass local law requiring you to lock up.

And just in general, I would really be upset while walking across the parking lot and seeing what appeared to be a ticket on my windshield first damn thing in the morning.

I am a "Block Captain" on our local neighborhood watch. (I know, it sounds pretty hokey.)
I live in a very small town, every month there is a meeting at which the previous month's crimes are discussed.
The prevailing crime is larceny from automobiles, CD players, CDs, cell phones, etc.
99 out of 100 times the car was unlocked. When there is a home invasion, it is always through an unlocked window or door.

I think it is very good practice to do what that officer did for you. Think about it, their job is to prevent crime, not simply to react to it.

Lower crime statistics translates directly to your pocket in the form of lower insurance rates, and increased property values.

That's my $0.02

I would much rather have them just leave the note. Hell, even call me the next day or something.

I don't like the idea of a gov't official going into my car to protect me from something that "could have" happened.

I would suggest calling or stopping in the local PD and inquire about neighborhood watch, get active if you are inclined. In my younger days I had much disdain for the "pigs", since my involvement with NW I see things a little differently.

and apartments. If they find any are unlocked, they should walk right in and leaving a warning note.
In fact, they should check the quality of the lock on locked doors too. If it's not a deadbolt any teenager with an old ATM card can pop that sucker open.
:sarcasm:

Leaving a note on the windshield may be helpful but entering the car to leave a note is over the line. The officer stepped out of bounds on that one.


And not all home invasions are accomplished through an unlocked window or door. The two recent incidents in my vicinity were both accomplished when the homeowner answered the knock on the front door.

for cars getting broken into/stolen. Ex BIL had his new car stolen at GF's apartment, son couldn't keep anything of value in his car or it would be gone. Both complexes were in "good" neighborhoods, but that doesn't stop criminals to go "shopping" for an easy target.

The local police force may be trying to stop an increasing number of thefts by making the populace more aware of the potential problem. You may even want to call and ask them if it is a growing concern that you and your neighbors need to be aware of.

my rental car co. told us to not even leave change in the car. Fact is, people will go to the trouble of breaking and looking around for the 75 cents.

and the only thing that was taken was a handful of change from the center console. My bill was ~$150 and the dickweed thief got less than a buck.

I like the idea of police leaving notes to warn people about things like this, although I'd draw the line at the police actually opening or entering a vehicle (mainly because I object to the invasion of privacy but partly for the sake of the cop - a lot of people would lie about things being missing if they knew an officer had opened the car).

and I guess it's OK to leave a note on the windshield. Not much different from the NYC cop I saw going through a restaurant telling women not to hang their purses on the back of the chair. A bit OTT perhaps, but no rights were violated and it's an attempt at crimestopping.

But, going into the car and leaving the note, then locking it for you, seems like a clear violation. I suspect the cop stepped over his own department guidelines with that one.

At least I hope the guidelines say don't go into the car.

....the note outside the car was right at the line and the one inside crossed it.Lets try two scenarios....1-you left the car unlocked because you have no door key. or 2-while leaving the note inside your car he notices a small baggy of a green herb that cant be seen with the door closed or any other violation not clearly visible from outside the vehicle-smell of pot,open pint of gin tucked under the seat-whatever....what has really happened here is an illegal search...though he can't act on any findings he can "remember" to give you extra attention the next time the vehicle is operated....Some will say "if you have nothing to hide...." and I say bullshit-it WAS an illegal search...

easily by not having illegal substances in a vehicle. Ever. For any reason. Period.

So many posters here seem to have no problem with driving under the influence, whether it is pot or booze. Don't even tell me that it is ok to burn one with your friends and then go driving. You are intoxicated and impaired.

Run into me or one of mine inder the influence and hurt them. Bad idea.

The cops would have another problem to deal with . Me. Looking for you.

...and your post implies that some illegal searches are ok-they are not....

You infer everything.

I am against illegality on ALL fronts, whether police abuses of search-and-seizure, or everyday common thievery and vandalism.

If there is pot in a vehicle would it be safe for a rational person to think that is where it is being used? How about a half-empty bottle of vodka? People stupid enough not to partake in the privacy of their own home are asking for trouble.

Even though I do not believe in possession of marijuana should be in any way illegal, and see it as a personal choice, I am against impaired drivers. THAT is illegal and as far as I am concerned, the penalties for DUI should be drastic and severe. Too many lives have been destroyed with little punishment to those willing to drive impaired.

...either you support civil rights and restraint on police searches or you don't.....Civil rights allow people to be protected at times from prosecution EVEN if guilty.....you either protect that line or you don't...

Please.

The subject in question had nothing to do with an illegal search. If there was anything found in the vehicle that was questionable, don't you think that a reasonable police officer would do what was necessary to be able to perform a legal search? It is not that difficult to get a search warrant for a vehicle when there is visible evidence present.

If you leave drugs or empty beer cans laying about in a vehicle and expect no one to notice, I have no sympathy for what the consequences may be.

I read your post and you have no problem with the cop opening a car door.Lets say I am a pot head with multiple police contacts and that also I am what you call a reasonable pothead who ONLY smokes at home....Because of my multiple contacts I stash my grass in a baggy which I store in the car-right next to the seat near the drivers door, knowing there is no way in hell it can ever be seen without opening the door-which is illegal without a warrant.I do this because I think police may enter my home but certainly will not enter my car because they have no reasonable cause....also in court I can argue pot found in my unlocked car is not mine beyond a reasonable doubt, whereas pot in my house is not as easy to disavow-The only question truly involved is should an officer of the law should enter a space where you have an expectation of privacy and the answer is no....

One could make a reasonable argument that since the door was open, anyone could have put anything in the vehicle. A good lawyer would have a field day with that one.

but the case doesn't even EXIST until the cop violates my rights...

and it was yours, possession is still a crime. Sorry. Even if no one sees it but you.

...you said earlier that pot was not a bad thing...my take is you are either....
A:full of shit and want pot users need to be hunted down and punished.
Or B: Well there is no B:you are a fascist who's only concern is to punish me for some perceived enjoyment....

and in the end....please discuss the cops right to touch my vehicle-surprise-he has none and a decent lawsuit would cost the town 100K...

Ruled on in Supreme court cases, many times over. Driving is a privilege, not a right, and the precept that you have the same rights driving in your car as you do sitting in your home is wrong. Talk to any attorney conversant with the law concerning your rights in a motor vehicle. They have been curtailed since the Reagan administration.


While I am trying to make a reasoned argument, you stoop to calling names. Why are you getting so angry? I used to do various things that were illegal and I understood the consequences if caught. Smoking pot was the least of them.


I do not care what substances you put in your body as that is your concern. We are talking about what the current laws deem legal, and how those laws may be implemented in a theoretical situation.

that a police search of my car (even if only partial) without either consent or probable cause)is OK...Lets discuss what Bullshit you approve of...
1. Driving is a privilege not a right...My PARKED car is not A. a public place or B. a place where privacy rights are waived.
My rights have been curtailed since the Reagan administration-there is a difference between curtailed and abrogated.
You are making reasoned arguments-No I am not calling names-you support the constitution or find it "quaint.
What current laws deem legal and theoretical points are my exact point....ever heard of waterboarding...it is now also "legal"...

searches? :shrug:

hypothetical example that that is something they practice in real life.

over surveillance cameras that violated his privacy while he was inside of his car. He won. I wonder if your expectation of privacy is at issue in the same way here, too.

I believe this falls under the "protect" portion.

Now, if he found a roach in the ashtray, would it be admissible?

I guess that would be John Roberts call. :evilgrin:

i have to do it the cops way, cause..... he is boss. none of his business.

I would have no problem with a cop checking my car at night. That's the serve and protect. IMO, I don't think the vast majority of cops are snooping around peoples cars at night looking for a joint laying around. Sounds to me that, instead of sitting around drinking a cup of coffee, this cop believes in prevention vs. cure.

Besides, if your stupid enough to leave evidence in plain site, maybe you should be get caught.

We have a winner!

Your logic is infallible.

my car should be locked, when i decided my car should be unlocked is bullshit. i dont have booze to hide, pot to hide, stickers are valid, it is my car.... i want it unlocked, it stays unlock. NO ONE has the right to go to my door and lock it because they want it locked. none of THEIR business, including a cop. not his job.
none of their business.

but I really don't like people telling me my business. That's my own fault though- some people probably like the reminder.

so damned afraid. i happen to see that, not my problem. i personally am not so afraid to give up all my rights and decision making abilities cause of someone elses fear......

if they strip searched me at the airport. I don't even like it when they go through my bags- that's my STUFF! Get the hell out of there! Apparently X-raying is no longer effective...

chances are your clock radio was pretty safe. I'm guessing the crime rate's pretty low if they can worry about a piece of electronic equipment in the seat of a locked car, or if they can take the time to make sure everyone's car doors are locked each night.

Frankly, I'd be concerned that they could be doing something a bit more productive, like scoping the roads for drunk drivers or something. My antenna perked up a bit with the opening of your car door. I'm not sure on that one, though, warrants and searches aren't really my area.

If you're really concerned, you might want to mention it to a lawyer in your area.

I live in a town of about 60,000 people, a small beachside community.

There's almost no crime here, really. If you're interested, here's a link to the stats: http://www.mppolice.com/index.cfm?section=1&page=1&mesg=art624.24909

I'd be annoyed at the note on my windshield, but I don't think there is a problem with it.

I don't have a problem with the cop opening your car door, simply because your doors were unlocked. But, the cop should not have locked your car doors. If it had caused you any inconvenience (having to hire a locksmith, being late to work), I think he/she would be liable for it.

I owned several cars which I was not able to lock the doors. With my Pinto, if the door was locked you couldn't unlock it. Had to crawl in through the back, or "pop" the side window.

if you don't (can't) lock your doors, I think that you are risking someone opening them (even a cop). But that is your risk to take. Somebody (even a cop) locking them in an attempt to help may end up causing you a whole lot of problems that they had no business causing.

And it means they're watching your parking lots. I don't see anything to complain about here. It's like the cop going down main street and checking to make sure doors are locked on all the stores.

And many Police Officers wear their uniforms when they act as Security Guards as a Second Job (Minor Scandal about 15 years ago in Pittsburgh, the Police Raided a "Massage Parlor" as a place of Prostitution and the Security Guards in the front of the Building were City of Pittsburgh Police Officers wearing their Police Uniform, this was off-duty and permitted but Police Regulations of the CIty of Pittsburgh at that time).

If the Officer were Security Guards (or Officer working as a Security Guard), if permitted in your lease the Guard can do the above. Your lease may have a general clause saying you give them permission to do any act for the purpose of "Security". If that exist the Guard has the right to enter your car.

If the person is an Police Officer NOT employed by the Apartment Complex, then he is like any other citizen, he can leave notes on your car (provided he does no damage) and look into your car ON THE GROUNDS YOU HAD NO REALISTIC EXPECTATIONS OF PRIVACY FROM PEOPLE LOOKING INTO YOUR CAR (it is the nature of Automobiles that they are all glass). Sorry, that is legal. On the other hand him entering your car to lock it, is something else, for you have expectation that no one will open the doors. This may even be Criminal trespassing (Depends on how the Trespass act is written in your state). Under the Common Law Criminal Trespass was limited to your home and the "Close" of the Home (Basically your yard) it did NOT extend to other property UNLESS FENCED. This has been changed by Statutes to include areas marked with "No Trespassing" Signs, and other areas where you will expect "privacy". That is the key do you have a Realistic expectation of privacy in that no one will check your car doors to see if they are locked?

Locally, when the Police sees a baggie with its corners cut off, or the corners themselves, they know that is how Crack, Cocaine and Heroin is sold locally (and I believe Nationally). While they know it is probably drugs, they do NOT have probable cause to search the baggie until they bring in a Drug Sniffing dog. Once the Dog indicates drugs, they have probable cause to break into the car. This is true even if the windows are down let alone the car is unlocked.

On the other hand the Court have long ruled that cars are mobile devices that can to removed out of a Jurisdiction BEFORE A WARRANT CAN BE ISSUED. Thus Police can Search a car (provided they have Probable cause) without a Warrant (Through it is good practice to try to get one).

--Y is the member of an anti war group

--inadvertantly leaves car unlocked

--rogue cop plants drugs

--Y 'local anti war activist arrested on drug charge'

:sarcasm:

I'd give him/her a raise.

the car. what business is it of theirs to lock my door. are they making my decisions in life. is this what you have decided for me. that another gets to decide the choices i make. i would chew the cop out and tell him to leave hands off my car. if i want door unlocked, i GET to have car unlock. no ones business. do you not get that.

i go to get in car and cant. i have to call locksmith out and pay 60 bucks for someone butting in where he doesnt belong. i lose my job because i am late. i cant feed my kids

no ones business

But, have it your way.

i have left my keys in car. i have weighed risk, and left my keys in car at certain places. you decide my door needs to be locked. then you say i am being ridiculous because now you have caused me a headache. my remote stopped working. can you believe on new saturns i dont have a door key. totally reliant on the remote. i cant lock door, because my remote needs to be reset to be able to open door. so you lock my door, and i am stuck, then you say i am ridiculous.

please explain how someone butting into my business makes me ridiculous.

Ridiculous. You leave your keys in the car and bitch because someone locked the door you left unlocked.

Fix the damn remote.

your eyes to intimidation. gonna turn in your neighbor because they dont follow rules you decide should be followed. big thumbs up to your dictator, you will do well. you will allow them to not only dictate how you live, but back them and insist we all follow their rule

I'm a fascist. Yeah. Look at my posts. I'm a fascist.

Bleh.

You don't even make sense.

just stick to your guns. you have an agenda. you are looking for a win. if you dont understand the simplicity of what i am saying, i would suggest..... you bother NOT to think. dont think about my words, too much exercise with the brain. think about what you posted. your words. what you are actually telling other adults to do. because by gosh...... what, you know better than i? or anyone else? what our simple decisions in life are suppose to be. and if we dont agree with you and chose an alternate path, we must face your condescension in f*in up and with our lives by butting your nose into my business.

but please, dont think about what you say, then it would sound just too ridiculous, even you would agree i am sure.

http://www.keylessride.com/order/quote.asp?make=Saturn&remoteyear=1993&model=S+Series&frid=5A5E6020&OER=yes

Just being helpful.

Now going back to oppressing the masses . . .

there is nothing valuable in it, and if I don't, the Junkies break the windows to get in. I grow weary of replacing glass, you know?

Many convertible ownders leave their doors unlocked as well, so people don't slash their tops if they want to seal something.

You have no idea how many people simply DON'T THINK! I know quite a number of years ago, I always parked my car in my driveway unlocked. One morning, I got in to drive to work and all the papers from my glove box were on the floor. Obviously, someone was looking for SOMETHING inside. This was in SC, and my husband thinks they were looking for a gun. Lots of people keep a loaded pistol in their glove box.

Anyway, it was a wakeup call to me that you can't just trust everyone. I started locking it after that.

I suspect if this really bothers you, you could call the police dept. and ask that they stop, and you'll take you chances on your own.

Or better yet, on the driver's seat in plain sight. Say whatever you like, so long as it can't be construed as a threat or considered obscene.

Welcome, and I like your name. I think Hiassen rocks, too. :hi:

If I want to leave my car unlocked, its my choice. The 1st note, well ok, but actually going in the car and locking it is a no-no.

Breaking and entering is defined as the crime of illegally entering a residence or other enclosed property using any amount of force (even pushing open an unlocked door). If criminal intent can be established, breaking and entering can be considered a burglary, a felony in most U.S. jurisdictions. If there is no criminal intent, breaking and entering can be considered trespassing, which is usually a misdemeanor crime.

Do they charge breaking and entering vehicals?

I leave my car unlocked each and every day - I have keys to get in, but if I start locking the doors I invariably lock myself out.

I think this is OVER the line and OVER zelous. Fuck all of you that think it's ok. That is the bullshit that is destroying america today. DO NOT GIVE THE AUTHORITIES FREE ACCESS. Warrents exist for a reason. Do you think this officer would have gotten a judge to give him a warrent to write you a little nag note and scare the shit out of you by leaving it on your drivers seat?

People leave their garage doors open and burglers just walk in right in because most of the time, the door leading into the house, is unlocked.

It's not illegal and I think they do it because they get tired of responding to crimes that could have easily been prevented.

There's got to be some balance in protecting ourselves from our own stupidity/carelessness.

I for one would applaud such behaviour.

I mean, on the one hand, it seems like the program might be helpful (provided they stay out of the car, that's a bit creepy) ... but doesn't it seem like a petty thief could see one of those slips of paper on the windshield and know right away and from a distance that it might provide quick/simple access to valuables, etc. :shrug:

Maybe since it's working sooooooooo well, they can make it illegal for having anything worth stealing in plain view in your car. "Sir, they had no expectation of privacy because they always thank us for entering their unlocked cars - this is documented. It is a precidence that allows us to enter their homes should the door be unlocked. They had a beautiful painting viewable from the street."