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kpete Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-30-05 06:42 PM
Original message
Impeachment Buzz (THE PROGRESSIVE)
Impeachment Buzz
By Ruth Conniff
December 27, 2005

What sense does it make that some of the same Washington media and political leaders who countenanced the Clinton impeachment over a semen-stained dress, somberly intoning about the "rule of law," consider impeaching Bush beyond the pale?

No sense at all.

The question about impeaching Bush has nothing to do with legal grounds, and everything to do with politics.

But in the last few weeks, the political climate has been changing, so that more people are seriously considering whether Bush has committed one or more impeachable offenses. The revelations about Bush's spying on Americans through the NSA helped change things a bit.


True, since the Republicans control both houses of Congress, it is unlikely that impeachment articles could garner the votes to pass. But some members of Bush's own party were turning against him as Congress adjourned for the holidays, on issues like McCain's anti-torture bill, the Patriot Act, tax breaks. and budget cuts.

And, of course, groups like Progressive Democrats of America, who are pushing impeachment, hope the Dems can pick up enough seats in 2006 to take back the House.

At the very least, this Administration's abuse of power--the violations of civil liberties, torture of prisoners, and an arrogant insistence that the executive should be above the law when it comes to spying on Americans or launching a war--is subject to serious and open questioning. And that's a good thing.

http://progressive.org/mag_rcb122705
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electropop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-30-05 06:47 PM
Response to Original message
1. "seriously considering whether Bush has committed ...impeachable offenses"
:wtf:

What's to consider? He went on TV and confessed to 30 counts of impeachable offenses, and promised to keep doing it until we stop him.
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BeHereNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-30-05 06:56 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. And there's the rub...
Who is going to stop him/them?
The Congress?
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
BHN
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electropop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-30-05 07:05 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. His own party.
Bush has become a major liability. When the first round of post-NSA-spy-scandal polls come out, it will be shock and awe for the GOP. It will be very difficult for them to steal the next election if the polls show that 10% of Americans support Republicans, but the "votes" show that 60% voted Republican. They have to flush Bush to have any kind of chance of holding on to power, however illegitimately. He'll be gone by August, in time for the final run-up to the November "elections".
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BeHereNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-30-05 07:10 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. And then what do you expect to happen?
Do you actually think they will replace him with
a legitimately elected President?
Bush is NOT the problem, the powers that
placed him are and they are not going to
suddenly give up power and go home.
No way, not going to happen.
As a matter of fact, I predict that the
next puppet is already being groomed to
continue the agenda and will make
Bush look like a benevolent and kind leader.
Sorry, but that is what I honestly believe.
BHN
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electropop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-30-05 07:16 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. I'm sorry you feel that way.
Personally, I see so much to encourage me lately. One by one, the criminals at the top of each branch of Government are being investigated, indicted, and even arrested. There are only so many first-string crime lords to go around. The second string will not be nearly as skilled or as tough. We've got 'em by the balls and it's time to get out the pliers.
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BeHereNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-30-05 07:26 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. What I see and can assure you of is this:
For every player we may see fall, the powers that be
have ten in line who are even more vicious and corrupt.
I hope you are right and I am wrong but make no mistake,
this is about power, amassing all of it into the smallest
amount of hands- they have been orchestrating it for
decades and it will not simply disappear with the
ousting of the current administration.
We will be facing the undoing of these evil
bastards for generations.
That is what I see and the multi national corporations
are more powerful than ever now and we continue to
depend on them for all of our comforts, which
most Americans are not going to give up.
Who can suddenly stop using their phone?
Their television?
Their heating units?
The list goes on, and make no mistake-
Those corporations are in control of
our government and Congress.

BHN
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kpete Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-30-05 08:16 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Action is my duty, reward is not my concern (Ghandi)
We can NEVER stop the fight - even when we face the devil (or Bush).
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BeHereNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-30-05 08:53 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. I am not saying "don't fight" not at all!
Edited on Fri Dec-30-05 08:54 PM by BeHereNow
Our integrity may be all we will own when all is
said and done.
The integrity of knowing we did not simply
sink under the waves without struggle to
correct what has gone so wrong.
What I am saying is the struggle will
not end simply because Bush and his evil
minions have been exposed- the fight will continue
for generations- that is how far it has gone and
in my observation, Americans are no where near
doing what is necessary to pull the plug on the
multi national corporate thugs.
That is going to take a long time and things
will get much worse before then for that reason.
I do not expect an overnight crash and awaken
scenario- rather a creeping destruction of life
as we know it accompanied by a stealthful
unraveling of our so called liberties and rights,
which will naturally, make winning even more difficult.
BHN
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kpete Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-31-05 01:52 PM
Response to Reply #9
14. sad but pretty much true
I do not expect Bush's mess to be cleaned up in my lifetime. I only hope that I will witness the beginning of his fall and hopefully even, an awakening of the American people to the destruction this admin (& and I don't by any means consider them alone responsible for this mess) has caused to this country. I do still believe in my country and I firmly believe that my children or grandchildren (don't have any yet) will experience this awakening. That is what I work for.
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AndyTiedye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-30-05 07:04 PM
Response to Original message
3. More Like a Buzz Saw, We Hope

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onethought Donating Member (2 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-30-05 11:09 PM
Response to Original message
10. my take on impeachment
Every assertion in this article is opinion--mine.

I think the worse thing that can happen for right and justice at this point is for The Bush administration to be impeached. They only started all this choas in the first place, so they can rob . To impeach them now will not only leave the mess for others to clean up, it will allow the theives off the hook with their illgotten gains intact.

Tens of thousands of innocent lives need as much to be accounted for as the 4 innocent lives slaughtered by Tookie Williams.

I think strategically, you not only let the Bush administration continue..., but you let them have everything they want. Sure it's prudent to go through the motions of opposing them, but the wiset thing at this point, would be to let them have their patriot acts--, let them have their torture laws, let them screw with social security, let them keep giving tax cuts to the rich and keep cutting services to the poor, let them keep shitting on the U.S. constitution. The people are taking note and you can always undo all that stuff later.

But to a point, you give them all the rope they want.

The reason why you take such a coldblooded position is because if you want to once and for all kill this idea of imperialism, racist aggression, dictatorship, and profit wars, in this 21st century, you have to let it fully expose itself, for what it is, and not nip it in the bud too soon, only so it can pop up again, another 50 years down the road. Hopefully, you can then stop it before it leads to a real world war

Already, the world has recognized it a lot quicker that they did some 60 years ago.



The Bushites, right now are begging to be impeached because they got the money. Now, all they want is out of the mess they created.
Everybody can see the hole they dug for themselves. They are not running or winning anything in Iraq. All they are doing is greasing palms, kissing ass, and begging the insurgency, for time to make a facesaving exit.

I think some military stategists will agree that keeping them in Iraq, is exactly what the deceased Saddam Hussien, planned all along--to drag the war out, like the Taliban, did to the Russians, and are doing now... Like military strategists has done to superiorally equipped Empires, since the dawning of time.

Does anybody really believe that if the Iraqi resistors, were really fighting a war to run the U.S., out, those 160,000 U.S., soldiers would not have been decimated by now? Saddam's entire army is intact, well equipped and in guerilla warfare mode. they have been preparing for this thing for 13 years.

Modern wars can't be won militarily, except by the ultimate weapons of destruction. They can only be won economically and by the will of the people, and he who depletes the willingness of his people to persist and suffer want, last, will ultimate end up the victor.


Every thinking person knows this, simply from a little knowledge of the history of the wars of the past 50 years.

This is why in a land like the U.S., modern wars have to be thouroughly justifiable, or at least made to seem that way. And it's getting harder and harder to decieve even as many people as Abe Lincoln, allowed.

Unlike past administrations, the Bushites, didn't even try to fool the People, because they thought they were going to imtimidate and bogart everybody, which would have left them freer to do whatever they wanted.


The first gulf war wasn't a war..it was a phychological trick perpretrated by both the U.S., and Saddam Hussien.The U.S., was playing for the phyches of the American people. Saddam was playing for keeps--sacrificing for the real battle to come.

As Napoleon, confessed, there's comes a point where you push people that drives them beyond thoughts of fear or anything else. When people reach that point all they want to do is fight, and you can't scare them, you can't torture them enough, you can't do anything to make them stop, until they get their pound of flesh. Even the Ancient god/gods, conceded that when you set mankind into a certain mode, all you can do is run for the hills and hide..and pray. .

As noted by more than a few strategists, the U.S., has made the biggest blunder of all time.--unless the plan all along was to start a global, nuclear war.

If they retreat from Iraq, with nothing but having gave the Iraqis "democracy" when everybody knows they went over there to steal so to be able to wage conventional wars, all over the earth, it would be recognized by the whole world as a total defeat, by a tiny impoverish People against impossible odds, and they will soon after find themselves running all over the world, from emboldened insurgents everywhere they are.

Already the world is laughing at the paper tiger, that couldn't.

On the other hand, if they stay in Iraq and Afganistan, for more than another two or three years, the Nation will face serious economic troubles and probably experience a repeat of the Vietnam, era, protests, or an outright revolution.

When people get hungry, who has never known hunger before; when they look around at their families, at their deterioating situation--when they see what the Bush administration, and the majority of their elected officials has done to them --not only economically, but morally, spiritually, and globally, I don't think a patriot act is going to do any more to save any of them, than a retreat could save the armies of Napolean.

In my opinion, it's really that serious. And I don't base my opinions, on nothing, but on a little bit of knowledge of history. Over and over again history repeats itself, --only this time I don't think the chaos can be controlled by the manipulators, like it always has been in the past, not only because of the information age, but because for the first time in history so many of the world's nonmilitary personnel, are as deadly armed as it's military, and also the whole world knows the effectiveness of guerilla warfare. Nobody is going to bunch up anymore. .

Villas in France, or Switzerland isn't going to save anybody, nor is any mega--underground cities

Maybe a flight to the moon, or Pluto, but here on earth..., I don't know what they keep piling the dough up for. They are never going to get a chance to spend it.

In the meantime, I think we, who have been so upset the past few years, can relax a little.
At this point the world is not only able, but ready and willing to take care of themselves.

All the Bushites, have left is the nuclear option,--or maybe biological, or chemical weapons, which is really no option at all because a nuclear detonation, isn't going to stop with just one, and you just do not want to start an all out biological/chemical war, with the kind of stuff these people have today -- nobody is going to win that. Everybody has nuclear devices, and biological weapons, and by "everybody" I don't mean just the Nation States.

Let me say, I think the U.S., has, and had, enemies and genuine threats of very serious natures. I believe much of the world has been plotting against and warring on the U.S., economically and otherwise, long before youngun Bush.

I also believe it is impossible to defeat the U.S., on this soil, and will be impossible, for a long, long time to come. The whole world knows a United, American people, with such Armed forces, and armed populous, that it has, is no Rome. It's a given. We don't and never needed a white Knight, "fighting evil" for us. All we need our Presidents to do--if they are hellbent on defending somebody, is to defend weaker Nations and peoples, of the world and the best way they can do that, is to stop attacking them. Don't need him. Texas, don't even need him. A girl scouts troop would be able to defend themselves better without him. If Bush and his buffoons defends us too much longer we aren't going to have an economy, a standing Army, a friend, a job, an old age stipend, or anything else, but a debtor's prison looming over our heads.

We may as well go ahead and let the "terrists" blow us up now and get it over with. Besides, I don't know a single person, who is scared of a "terrist" But I bet you in ten or fiften years, there are going to be plenty of terrorists to fear. Where are all those missing Children, from New Orleans? I'll bet your uncle sammy, knows.

We've had one big suspicious incident in 200 years, and all of a sudden we are to supposed to let our leaders torture, spy on us, lock us up indefinitely without trial, shit on our constitution, lie us into an unjust war, and anything else they want to do, out of fear of "terrists." Seems to me I ought be more afraid of being spied on, tortured, falsely imprisoned, and attacked by my own government than some "terrist"

When Bush says they hate us for our freedoms, for once his lips was moving and he wasn't lying. He should know because he and his ilk are the primary Haters.

There has always been a war between the forces of freedom, and the forces of slavery and exploitation. And the North American people (not it's government or military. After all, they attacked and destroyed the only secular Arab, Nation in the world.) are still the last and most potent obstacle, in the way of the forces of slavery and fundalmentalism--be it political, or religious..

It's also a given that the American people will never unite behind unjust wars of aggression.

Personally, I think the only defense the U.S., needs, is to apologize and make admends to the world for the last 40 years of attrocities against it. No more enemies, then, but economic rivals.
And I think the U.S., is still in a positon to easily win the economic wars, simply by dealing ethically and fairly with smaller Nations. The U.S., is a super rich Nation, geographically and intellectually.
Unlike any other Nation, on earth, It can still stand alone and prosper. Why the Leaders are so demonically, and unnecessarily making enemies, of the smaller Nations, I'll never understand.

Actually, I do understand but most people still think the occult, satan and senseless evil is conspiracy thinking, so I wont go there.

Having said that, now I think the glaring question is, why did our Leaders, decide to "defend" the U.S., in such a way that they did.

The Bush administration, by starting, and plotting a global war most Americans, will never spiritually support , has made lions out of mice. The cat is barking at the dog now, all around the world, and I think the America People are going to look around very soon, and say what the fuck happened from 1999, when everything seemed to be going so well, to this damn nightmare, they're in now, which is going to become a horror show unless the Bushites, themselves, apologize to the world, stop bleeding the American people, give back the stolen trillions, and pay for their crimes--it probably won't happen, but it's all I can see that can maybe get things back to some normalcy, before it's too late. Even another 911 incident , wouldn't turn the tide because too many People--and I know this from personal experience of just talking to ordinary people--think 911, was an inside job.

They gambled and they lost. Nobody thinks anymore that they have anything under control..

I don't want to see them impeached at this point, but that's just me. And the only kind of fool who would write torture, into the laws of his land, is an imbecile, with no vision at all, who thinks he's always going to be on top. But history says different and the same viper that you train to bite somebody else, can, and will turn around and bite you. That's why I'm so suprised the U.S., military isn't apoplectic, about this torture thing, and this shitting on the laws of the geneva convention..

They aren't in the real "clash of civilizatons" "christian crusade " "axis of evil" war, yet.




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newyawker99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-31-05 09:16 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. Hi onethought!!
Welcome to DU!! :toast:
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CJCRANE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-31-05 09:31 AM
Response to Reply #10
12. Never give a dictator free rein
because they will never stop.

President Mobutu of Zaire died after a long life with $5 Billion in a Swiss Bank account. Zaire's foreign debt was...yes, you've guessed it - $5 Billion.

The people of Zimbabwe are starving yet President Mugabe still persists in his policies, even to the point where he has bulldozed the houses of hundreds of thousands of opposition supporters.

Obviously there are many more examples, but the point is that a megalomaniac will just keep going even if it means bankrupting or destroying their own country.




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Flubadubya Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-31-05 10:24 AM
Response to Reply #10
13. But the very process of impeachment...
would unmask their nefarious deeds for all the country and the world to see. Also, it would show that "we the people" will simply not stand for their corruption, and that we will not allow our republic and its venerable institutions to be torn down by this crew of jackbooted thugs.

I say IMPEACH the bastards NOW! :grr::mad:
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