If gasoline gets to $5.00/gal or $6.00/gal

if heating an average house in cold weather states is $400 - do you think that most Americans would still oppose the presence in Iraq? Would oppose the draft if the next target is kazakhstan (if, indeed there are oil fields there?

I am not so sure, not with so many SUVs and Hammers still roaming around on that special terrain - the suburban mall parking lots.

they feel if it comes to that it is survival of the fittest and most Americans will go along with invading other countries. I find it chilling to say the least.

I am stationed in northern Germany.

It's about the equivalen of $6 a gallon already.

I think that it was always around $4.00/gal in Europe while in the U.S. it would be around $2.00

It was about $5, where yesterday it was about $6.50

Things get a little skewed, because the Europeans have
different taxes from country to country, and some of them
have even put Value Added Tax onto the gas price, AFTER
the gas tax has been added on, so here you now also pay
tax on the tax!

our gas bills this winter were ALL over $400/month...where have you been?

and were out of town during the cold snap of February. So after a December bill of $215, we have been in the $150-$170. Of course, we do lower the temp. to 65 when out of the house and at night..

We also use electric space heaters so electricity was at the $50-$80 range..

and gas prices should drop quite a bit

We're going to slowly work on insulating this "new to us" old farm house over the Summer.

If at all possible we'll also be adding geo-thermal to help our oil/wood heating bill... although that may have to wait until nest year since we're on a fixed income and digging out of this financial pit we've found ourselves in due to this past Winters heating debt is primary.

Although there may be some that will think oil prices somehow justify invading another country I think most folks would rather see Bush do his job and get control over the oil prices we're paying through other means... especially after seeing how obsene a retirement package the OIL CEO just got.

And yet, and yet. This country has never had that desire to redistribute the wealth. This is why revolution, the kind that we have seen all over the world, could never happen here. People here still believe in the "American Dream" the gold in the streets. Too many do not begrudge these obscene salaries, they want to have them.

I hope that I am wrong. If many working people could learn from the immigrants of previous weeks and march in the streets, than I will have more faith in my fellow citizens. I do remember that the students protest against the war in the 60s took place only after all college deferments were canceled.

When prices go that high, people won't be clamoring for more NecroPorn Wars. They'll be calling for Bush's head.

That's already happening where I am. All of us good Americans will be docile and grateful to get gas at any price after a few weeks of wondering if we will be able to get any gas at all.

shortages in the 70's? Unbelievable, you would wait in line for hours to get gas all over the country. The oil tankers were waiting in line off the coast of Long Beach so they could unload. There were no shortages at all, they just wanted to get the price up. The sad part is people went along with it.

After all, as Iraq showed us, you can win a war and still not get oil out of the ground. We spend ten bil a month to get seventy three dollars a barrel now. Two wars means twenty bill a month to get one hundred forty a barrel.

They're having a hard enough time keeping their shipping costs down now with the price as it is!

They're the ones I really feel sorry for.

We should not have to put up with that, considering the min. wage is still only $5.15 per hour. If it does, I might be willing to get my pitchfork and torch out of storage.

Look out! But I don't know if gas will even have to get that high. Not when we also pay for it in the price at the grocery stores too.

When I had to work the weekend shifts at a TV station where we were being paid close to minimum wage to do the late news segment in the evening. We had a TV reporter working that shift that wasn't paid much more than that. The station could have staffed themselves with interns if they wanted then. I remember feeling the irony of watching this reporter on the newscast cover a meat packers strike where he was dressed up in his suit talking to employees complaining about earning wages that were two to three times more than he was making. He at least worked a longer shift than I did as someone helping doing the newscast itself since he had to go out during the day to get news stories. That was even before the Telecomm bill passed, and back in those days only two media companies owned the newspapers TV stations and news radio stations in that town, and they had a "gentleman's agreement" not to talk about each others' labor issues, which is why you saw coverage of meat packing plant strikes, but not anything on internal labor struggles at those media companies. I did see a bunch of people get fired for trying to organize something then.

Had I had to do that today, I'd have had to tell the manager that they needed to either offer me a longer shift that day or I couldn't work then, as gas would be more expensive than what I earned from the job. I worked 6 days a week then too there, and even then, didn't make much money over the hours I put in. I ultimately got another degree in CS later and went on to a lot more rewarding career (THEN!), when companies here in California hired people and hardly had any layoffs in the mid 80's.

We constantly hear about the work that "Americans won't do". But its reasons like this why they "won't do it". Why work for slave labor wages and get nothing back from it when you add all of your costs together. I'm trying to imagine what it must be like to work at many smaller news station markets now. Even the reporters might have a problem now with the costs of weekend shift commutes too.

I think they would have to make a connection that the war is for oil and that war will bring the gas prices back down. The reaction I'm hearing from people is that the war in Iraq has resulted in HIGHER gas prices, so I doubt they'll think the war in Iraq or any other future oil-producing nation would bring lower prices.

I see it as much more likely that if gas prices go up that much, people will start looking for new political leadership. I know way too many people who blame Bush and the Republicans directly for the oil prices. Just as I know many people who blame Carter for the oil crisis of the 1970s. Doesn't necessarily mean that was right, but a lot of people look straight to the top when something like this happens.

It means an end to the war in 2007. It means we can stop this mad man from starting WWIII.

Most of you don't have a clue how this is squeezing America's farmers. My fertilizer prices have doubled in the past year. My fuel bill has doubled or more. There will be mass bancruptcy in the corn belt if this keeps up!

... for most Americans.

If you're a farmer, then you know that no one is more to blame for Bush being elected than the farm belt.

It's a big hit, and it's all part of OIL FIRST under Bush.

We need ethanol made profitable and price does that.

consequence in the last election. It was the repub bastards in town that did the damage.

what do they care about small farmers when they are dealing with corporations?

Hope you will survive. I think that the farm crisis of the 80's was also a result of hight energy costs in the 70's.

And Welcome to DU, Dickster

:toast: :bounce:

We will have fewer grain farmers, and much more expensive grain, I am afraid.

But then, most Americans could afford to be a little less "corn-fed".

invasion was to keep Iraq oil off the market in order to drive the price of oil up. That factoid needs to get out to the American public. Can we count on the "librul" media to inform the American public? I doubt it.

the bike shop I wanted to open 8 years ago after all.

This was said by a co-worker yesterday.

he was complaining about gas prices. I mentioned that perhaps a change in congressional control may lead to a real investigation with gouging.

his response: "THEY are all scum...that's why I don't vote"

me: every voter that stays home is a vote for the scum already in office. The only way to get rid of the scum is to vote.

If everybody voted, we sould be fine.

with with the price of a barrel of oil. This is PRICE GOUGING, plain and simple! Don't even talk about a draft, don't go there!

natural gas this year by burning more wood in the fireplace. We have a small house and the FP does a pretty good job. That said, we spent $600 on wood and it was a mild winter by comparison to previous ones. We do "budget billing" on the gas which evens out the payment over a year, and a rough estimate shows it will factor out at about $110/mo on heating (including the wood) + gas cook stove cost for the year (Nov 05 to Nov 06). Higher gasoline prices will make the wood more expensive - this year the price per 1/2 cord was the same as last - but I figure it will go up next season. And we can't exactly go cut down our own trees in the pothandle.

Republicans will be out in full self-promoting regalia talking about how they have brought the price of gas down by 40%, thoroughly believing their own propaganda about fighting against the OPEC thieves for the American people or some such. With BushCo's ties to the Saudis and general Republican coziness with the heads of the oil industry, it won't be hard to swing a temporary lull in prices within a few months before any election. They'll gouge now, blame everyone else, back off for a while, get elected and then extort some more. It's what they do.

The media will back them up with every bit of Republicanism-promoting skill they have learned to use over the past quarter century. I can just picture Tim Russert shaking his head incredulously asking a (Dem) 'Senator, you can't honestly deny that this administration has brought gasoline prices down almost 40% from their OPEC highs of nearly five dollars a gallon?!'

These people, Republicans and the media, are able to steal elections, hollow out a thriving economy, let America get attacked by terrorists and lie flat-out to start a war, all without any real questions being asked. You think they can't manipulate the debate about energy gouging when they control both the pricing and the propaganda?

I think they can. I think we'll be lucky if Democrats aren't blamed for not drilling our way to oil independence, a ridiculous notion, and not wanting to fight for our national security oil needs.

Maybe by then we'll be ready to concede that the invasion/conquest/occupation/reconquest cycle isn't lowering the price of gas. Perhaps we'll realize that the money spent to fight war after trumped-up war could be more efficiently applied to subsidies at home, and to research on alternate forms of energy.