This whole Hugo Chavez hatred is so weird.

He's called all kinds of names and accused of all kinds of things and most people seem to have so few facts in hand. It just blows me away.

It's hatred. Why would people feel so much intense emotion against someone like Chavez -- who has been befriended by so many prominent progressives?

It's just strange.

I don't believe he's better than he is but, good God, the vitriol is amazing.

My grandfather worked under possibly the most brutal dictator in the history of El Salvador. He didn't set up hot meals for school kids or try to wrest the country's resources back from corporations or try to form a long term plan to fend of the incursions of US hegemony.

I just don't get it. Is it because he's brown and speaks a funny language? What?

a Latin American country. I believe living here makes people take things for granted. Sure it's not easy, but its certainly not the same as living in, say, El Salvador (since that's where I'm from). It's damn near impossible to change your station in life in countries like that. That's not to say its super easy to do here, but at least you have a chance if you work hard enough. I don't believe Chavez is perfect, but at least he's trying to bring change to a country that has the resources to help its people live better lives.

would catch onto that?

The elites in Venezuela hate him passionately because he is, imperfectly perhaps, making a space for the people, shifting the balance of power. It's just weird to see the same venom on this board.

Especially after watching the documentary about the coup and how openly the people were lied to and how blatantly the media tried to lie to them about what was happening.

I think he likes seen his name writen in international papers a little too much in the same way Bush likes to dress up for the occasion. They are both like puppies hungry for attention. Chavez ideas aren't what we are used to but he is popular with those who love him which seem to be the majority (in Venezuela). I know a lot of Venezuelans who only complaint that he is a "charlatan" but don't think of him as a dictator. His ideas are different but are thing that "could" work for their culture. Democracy works for us and it doesn't mean that it could work in lets say, an Islamic nation just to put an example.

The fact that he opposes everything about US (well, mostly Bush and American Oil Companies) is a red flag for many in the US even Democrats. Americans can only understand about Capitalism and they mistrust anything related to Socialism. They think it won't work when in fact WE ARE THE ONES RESPONSIBLE for the failures of many Latin American countries who had socialist regimes. Many who dislike or hate Chavez has little understanding of Latin American affairs. But this is my opinion and I am sure someone here in DU has something better to add (I am being sarcastic... I have no idea what's been going on here lately but its horrible.) Can't even make an opinion lately since you get bombarded horribly. Not that I have something important to add but hey...

One think for sure is that Cindy (I do not intend to start a Cindy thread in the Latino forum, I SWEAR!!!) showing up with Chavez was IMO a very bad move. Why? Because there is a lot of ignorance and distrust of Latin American leaders and her showing up with Chavez hurt the progressive cause. Everything went down hill after that. I was very mad about it but it was just because it only gave fuel to the freepers to clean the floor with her and manipulate the ignorant in this country.

By the way. Have you notice that all the Chavez threads are posted by the same person?

about posting to those threads because they seem to be put up to start flame fests. It's too bad, too, because I'm very interested in what's going on in Venezuela.

Chavez himself reminds me of a lot of very bright people I've met. His social skills are a little wacky.

There is a big, concerted effort by the US corporatists to demonize him, imo, because whenever I search a topic, there are 10 RW hit job entries for every sort of neutral one. And at DU at least, it seems to be working well.

playing to. He doesn't give a damn about the rest of us and I think he enjoys shocking us. He is always in danger of being assassinated by us or those whose power he lessened in his own country, but he is doing what the "big man" or chief does in the culture he is appealing to. This is how he is consolidating his power. It remains to be seen if once he does this, if he will keep taking care of the people or if he will actually turn into a tinpot dicator. He just hasn't had the chance yet to be one or the other.

Quite honestly, considering the dreadfully unconcerned and cocky buffoon we have for a president, we can't be criticizing any head of state these days for not having social skills.

And, he's handsome, too.

lol

when most of the regimes were banana republics with some very bad guys in power as dictators. Our country, the USA, did business with them and looked the other way when the abuses were piling up. Most of those countries have suffered from countless revolutions trying to set up governments for the people and by the people and our government always aided another coup to install another banana republic government with a dictator leading them that they liked better. It's our M/O. They are trying to do the same thing in Venezuela, which is why all this astroturf about Chavez is being spread in the media and the internet to turn American opinion away from him.

As for Cindy posing with Chavez, I think it's no different than Jane Fonda in that tank meeting with the enemy in Hanoi. Jane Fonda has explained many times her side of the story and that she was manipulated and used. I think Cindy was too and for a very smart cookie she wasn't thinking this one through. Sometimes what the public thinks does count because the enemy will use occasions like this to inflame the public with propaganda and pictures at eleven.

I have said this over and over again about Salvadore Allende, when he was the legitimately elected President of Chile. People were screaming commie and the Russians are coming. I said if the people don't like him, they well unelect him when his turn is up or even use legal means to get rid of him sooner like impeachment. But our government true to form backs a right wing military junta to assassinate and install their dictator Augusto Pinnochet, whom they could do business with instead. Chile had never had a dictator before after they broke from Spain. Look at the forty years of horrors and human rights abuses that ensued under his regime. I notice on the comments on many of the Youtube videos that some are saying the same thing in Spanish that elections will take care of him if the people don't like what he's doing.

Hugo Chavez was legitimately elected by the people and if they stop liking him because he has overstepped the line they will get rid of him by election or impeachment when the time comes. We just have to leave them alone to determine their own political destiny. Venezuela is a democracy with free elections and it will happen if we don't meddle, but we are.

Personally, myself, I hope he succeeds just like Castro did by poking a stick in the eye of American Latin American hegemony. In his case though, I hope that democracy does work, if he in fact sets himself up as a dictator, and that the people will impeach or unelect him to prove that they do in fact have a real democracy.

I have started a thread with all the resources that were popping up at DU in it. It's far from finished. I'm putting up information both good and bad about Chavez so that we can get a truer picture of him and his legacy other than fighting flame wars in GD. I haven't had enough time to keep up with it and post everything that is useful information, so any help anyone wants to give me here will be appreciated.

And you are right. That is our pattern. What was that book (lost to me now in the post-divorce dust up) that was seven cases of US intervention gone wrong -- beginning with Hawaii? I believe there was a chapter on Chile there or, the author wrote about Chile in one of his chapters. It was a searing indictment of US Imperialism. This old brain won't give me the title.

But, when I read about Chile, my heart just hurt. :(

He seems to have his finger on the abuses of power the Americans have visited on Latin American nations including your country El Salvador.

go to Amazon and look at my purchases. It really bites to deal with an aging memory. :)

Overthrow: America's Century of Regime Change from Hawaii to Iraq
by Stephen Kinzer

http://www.amazon.com/Overthrow-Americas-Century-Regime-Change/dp/0805082409/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/002-6007803-2849646?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1181159307&sr=1-1

can't handle it.

Can you imagine being George Bush and having to wake up to Hugo Chavez?

lol