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kpete Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-16-08 03:32 PM
Original message
Krugman schools Will
 
Run time: 01:17
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3yAyQV8gOjo
 
Posted on YouTube: November 16, 2008
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Posted on DU: November 16, 2008
By DU Member: kpete
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jwirr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-16-08 03:36 PM
Response to Original message
1. Public Works Program know as WWII - It is obvious that will not work today.
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Jack Rabbit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-16-08 03:46 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. The Iraq War was a boondoggle, not a public works program.
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MindMatter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-16-08 11:17 PM
Response to Reply #5
29. The money went to Blackwater, Halliburton et al
And Halliburton promptly moved their headquarters to Dubai.

In WWII, America mobilized to build ships, tanks, airplanes -- everything. Some of that happened with Iraq, but hundreds of billions ended up being spent in Iraq in attempts to build THEIR infrastructure. That doesn't benefit Americans one bit.
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patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-16-08 04:28 PM
Response to Reply #1
9. War doesn't produce goods the consumption of which produces other goods.
It does the opposite of that.
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jwirr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-16-08 04:44 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. Good point. That is the way we should look at spending - does it
produce positive effects for use in ordinary lives.
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patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-16-08 04:59 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. Thom Hartmann on AAR was talking about this last week.
You can listen or get podcasts from http://airamerica.com/

The "works program" of WWII by itself would have done nothing for our economy if the war had been a permanent one (e.g. the War on Terror). What made it work was Winning and coming home to take advantage of all of the industries that the war gave a start to and of the GI benefits (EDUCATION especially) that the war gave to the People.
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-16-08 06:28 PM
Response to Reply #13
23. Exactly....
great show....
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Cassandra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-16-08 11:22 PM
Response to Reply #9
30. Which is why the multiplier effect of weapons...
is so much less than for consumer goods throughout the economy.
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lumpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-16-08 05:55 PM
Response to Reply #1
22. Even if WW2 had not occurred, this country would still have
survived and flourished economically. We had all the tools in place (manufacuring/agricultural abilities) that afforded the US to be self sufficient and independent. Once FDR administration's financial regulations were set in place we were back on track until capitalist free-style greed managed to eliminate the ground rules.
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mrreowwr_kittty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-16-08 03:37 PM
Response to Original message
2. K and R. nt
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thunder rising Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-16-08 03:38 PM
Response to Original message
3. My man G Will ... ducks his head. He knows defeat!!!
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lumpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-16-08 05:43 PM
Response to Reply #3
21. Will's laugable thinking is garbled as Krugman pointed out.
He certainly has a skewed take on our economic history.
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theoldman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-16-08 03:41 PM
Response to Original message
4. The reason Krugman won a prize was because he is smarter
than guys like Will. FDR was also smart and did the right thing to help people earn enough money to survive. I am not saying that the present situation is the same but there are some similarities. We should learn from the past.
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aejlaw Donating Member (46 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-16-08 04:22 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. Right George, everybody knows FDR caused the great
depression. If only we had continued the trickle down economics of Herbert Hoover everything would have been just fine. :sarcasm: Lately I've been hearing alot of this revisionist history from Republican "intellectuals". Glad we have a Nobel prize winner setting things straight.
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bbgrunt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-16-08 05:11 PM
Response to Reply #8
15. yes, there is a lot of such bs going around. Krugman
sets the record straight for once, but they will continue to mischaracterise the causes until the public believes the catapulted propaganda.
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NewJeffCT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-16-08 05:41 PM
Response to Reply #8
20. Welcome to DU, and they've been trying to reinvent a lot of history lately
they've tried to rehab the image of Joe McCarthy... they've criticized Truman for not allying with the Nazis after WW2 and invading Russia.
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BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-16-08 03:58 PM
Response to Original message
6. Goerge Will was tapping his fingers. He does not like being corrected...
Tooooooo Baaaaaaaaaaaaaad. :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Krugman is so much smarter than George Will that it is pathetic.
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DallasNE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-16-08 09:46 PM
Response to Reply #6
28. This Is What Happens
When you match up a pundit with an expert in his field. The pundit gets his head handed to him on a plate. It doesn't have to do with smarts. It has to do with knowledge. Krugman has the knowledge and Will doesn't.
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eleny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-16-08 04:06 PM
Response to Original message
7. Krugman usurps Will's self annointed position - smartest guy at the table
:rofl:
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bulloney Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-16-08 04:33 PM
Response to Original message
10. A war wouldn't help us out of our economic crisis today. Our country has been in a war buildup mode
since Reagan. Our economy is like a drug addict, only the addiction is defense spending.

It's ironic that a five-star general--Dwight Eisenhower--warned this country not to allow the military industrial complex genie out of the bottle. But the Reagan administration would have had little economic growth had it not been for their ridiculous levels of military spending and we haven't let up since.

Now we have to find a way to wean this economy from this type of spending.
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Idealism Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-16-08 04:59 PM
Response to Original message
12. It turned into a great depression because
Hoovers administration refused to bailout some 3000 banks that slid into bankruptcy, the fed declined to help them saying its not how capitalism worked.
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Faygo Kid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-16-08 05:01 PM
Response to Original message
14. Nobel Prize winner in economics versus pompous twit. Hmm. . .
Paul wins.
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Just-plain-Kathy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-16-08 05:13 PM
Response to Original message
16. Wars helped our economy when American comanies and workers produced arms.
Now that Cheney turned Halliburton and all it's subsidiaries into companies of Dubai, we make nothing. Our leaders are able to spread fear worldwide while they profit selling weapons on the side. I will be very disappointed if PE Obama lets the White house mafia walk away scott free,
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eleny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-16-08 05:21 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. Right, "Rosie the Riveter" is now in Shenyang, China
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lumpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-16-08 05:38 PM
Response to Reply #16
19. The only problem we really faced during the 'big' depression
was the banking/economic failures which caused job loss. FDR did the right thing by enforcing strict banking regulations and creating federal make-work programs. Of course those banking regulations have been slowly eroded throughout the years, unfortunatly.
The saving grace for this country during the 30's depression was the fact that we had a strong and intact manufacturing/agricultural base which enabled the US to remain self sufficient. That self sufficiency was our strength.



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Cassandra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-16-08 11:36 PM
Response to Reply #19
32. We also had lots of our own cheap oil...
and no debt.
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Enrique Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-16-08 05:20 PM
Response to Original message
17. quick, which of them has a Nobel Prize in Economics?
I'll give you a hint, his first name isn't George or Cokie.
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mentalslavery Donating Member (215 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-16-08 06:29 PM
Response to Original message
24. We outsourced this one
and that is among the least of our mis-steps. WWII lead to victory and increased world power, the roughly even division of nation-states between east and west. This war has depleted world influence, broken the banks, and resulted in unknown failures to be realized in the coming months and years. Unfortunately, the problems are just beginning, as wars end will bring a host of unemployed men and women into the economy just as it purges jobs. Many of these individuals will need significant resources and deserve the utmost respect. To this day, the outsourcing of war waging has amassed riches on the doorsteps of private contract agencies. It will not be the honor and valor we award our veterans in victory but what we do for vets times of military blunder that signify the strength and resolve of this great nation.
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whistle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-16-08 07:45 PM
Response to Original message
25. George Will the nobel prize winning economist???? What an idiot
...to go on national TV and show just how uninformed and inculcated with "conservative think" he is.

Krugman made a very nice volley right back into Will's disgusted looking scowl! :rofl:
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Iwillnevergiveup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-16-08 08:58 PM
Response to Original message
26. Would it be asking too much
to rotate these "panels" say every year or two? Cokie, Sam and Georgie are so smug and arrogant because they're so entrenched. Paul Krugman is a brilliant man, but let's face it...not a great oral communicator. He talks too fast, mumbles a bit and allows himself to be talked over. The other 4 all speak better than he does and unfortunately, that scores points with viewers.

As an alternative, if we can't get a different crowd of panelists who might actually listen to an expert, how about having the Krugmans and any other truly informed guests on TV in a solo appearance. I suppose that's up to guests, though. As it stands, if they don't get to appear by themselves, they're forced to listen to all the blather.

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anberlin32 Donating Member (1 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-16-08 09:02 PM
Response to Original message
27. Public Works Program known as WWII
Is Krugman saying that we need another massive war to bring us out of this mess?
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Cassandra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-16-08 11:29 PM
Response to Reply #27
31. No.
He's saying that any stimulus applied through the Federal Government will have to large enough to make everyone, especially the deficit hawks, pretty queasy.
Welcome to DU!
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