Joe Scarborough's 6-minute defense of torture.

Run time: 06:39 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Hf8r6H71nc   Posted on YouTube: January 12, 2009 By YouTube Member: Views on YouTube: 0   Posted on DU: January 12, 2009 By DU Member: babylonsister Views on DU: 1637

 

and I never watch that horrid show. It made me physically ill. Torture has been proven time and time again by experts that it doesn't work and in many cases gets false information. Scarborough insists that it works, he doesn't know what he is talking about, yet again.

He's becoming an O'Reilly (or is he already there?). I didn't know there were enough wing nuts out there to give both fox and friends and Morn. Joe sufficient viewership.

He actually brought up Operation Bojinka which has roundly been ignore by the Clinton critics and then stated that torture stopped that. There is no proof of that whatsoever- yes Murad was tortured but the information gathered that stopped or at least made it impossible to pull off was from investigation NOT torture.

also works Joe! Mika must just cry when she leaves this show in the morning having to listen to this windbag bully. MSNBC should be ashamed of this spectacle!

From Aristotle on down through the ages, torture doesn't work. The real purpose of torture is to threaten the free thinking of a nation's own citizens. There is no more fearful propaganda than fear of torture from one's own government.

If maybe we only threatened to torture people like Scarborough, then they'd see the error of their thinking. What an asshole, oh, what an asshole.

The idea behind sleep deprivation, drugs and disorientation is that we can manipulate an enemy and double them into an asset - but this takes time - and time works against us in the case of a ticking timebomb. And mind control doesn't stick. It's far too unpredictable, and, therefore, too dangerous to a network and its modes.

If you watch Scarborough enough, you'll see that the man thinks in simple and stereotyped ways. And he can't hold two opposing ideas in his head at the same time. He was adamant until Nov. 5 that working class people in rural Pennsylvania/Ohio/Indiana would not vote for a black Democratic man, which was why he was convinced that McCain would beat Obama. He does not research issues before forming opinions and can't be dissuaded when more credible sources disagree with him. He alienates both guests and MSNBC colleagues by insulting or silencing them. It's only a matter of time before MSNBC ditches this embarrassment of a host.

"Democratic leaders were briefed fully on what was happening post 9/11"

That doesn't make it legal (much less effective)!

"We got an overwhelming amount of our information about al qaeda from Kahlid Sheik Mohammed from waterboarding."

That doesn't make it legal either!

"These things that were helping us get away from Sep. 11th without another attack."

Putting aside the fact that we have been attacked since 9/11 (anthrax attacks, embassy in Yemen, etc.), prove that torture is the reason we have been able to "get away from September 11th". Oh, and even if these techniques have helped prevent another attack, that still doesn't make it legal!

"Waterboarding wont work anymore because al qaeda, who studies what we do will..." yada yada yada prepare to be waterboarded, train for it, whatever.

How is this going to make waterboarding any less effective than every interrogation expert tells us it already is (which is to say, NOT AT ALL)? Oh, and it still doesn't make it legal!

I could go on and on and on! All perpetrating torture does is gain us non-actionable intelligence that actually makes it harder to ferret out the truth and puts our troops in harms way by gaining (rightfully) the enmity of the entire rest of the world. We prosecuted officers of another country's military for waterboarding (calling it torture in the process) a scant 50-some years ago. Damnit, I want my country back! F You to Joe and all the other torture apologists out there!

I heard it at 3:00 AM and wasn't quite awake so I appreciate the post,thank you.

Christina Freeland really stuck to her guns against a very overbearing Joe. Joe can't discuss any hot issue without personally attacking the other person. He was dead wrong about getting good information from torture. Doe anyone know why he refused to talk about John McCain on air? He told Christina he would talk to her off air about it.

propaganda by omission.

And repeat itself with a vengeance. Because in effect, a major US political party representing approx 50% of the people are actively promoting torture by already citing precedent. This fascist guy, "Morning Joe", is already citing precedent that Dems colluded, that there was great benefits to the US, etc. If there's no accountability the Obama admin will seal the collusion in stone, fascist principles will have won. This is even were Obama to introduce new feather-light "laws" prohibiting x, y, and z. I say "feather-light" because the precedent that will be set in stone is just that such laws have no meaning. International law has no meaning. Universal principles of morality have no meaning.

to be used against your worst enemies, it later gets used against all enemies. Then it gets used against your own citizens.

If the moral objection to torture disappears, which is what I think Joe is suggesting, then why not have it in every US court case to make sure witnesses tell the truth. Why not use it in US Prisons, and even in the work place.

Joe is doing some fictional math in his head. one guy tortured 100 terrorist caught. That is the math he makes up in his head. Ok Joe how about one mobster to bring down a crime family, and save a few hundred people from crime. Or one drug dealer tortured to stop selling drugs to 100 people by bringing down a drug ring. Why not torture all people suspected of crimes? This is where this leads. Now right now his different level of empathy for different groups does not make him think this way, even possible hatred of some groups. But alls a leader has to do is get him to hate any group and he will gladly sit back and allow them to be tortured.

Back to Joe's math. One guy tortured. 100 terrorist caught and 1000 terrorist created. How many headlines of USA torture camps will be splashed over news for years to come if Joe gets his way. How many whispers of disappeared people will enter the lexicon of things spoken about the USA. How many 1000s of terrorist will the program he advocates create?

That is what you get from torture.

Even if you ignore the lack of dignity he advocates. He is not thinking long term nor is he thinking of the effect across the board to the respect US gets from other countries. And respect translates into business contracts, diplomatic help with problems, financial cooperation, and even military help.


On his point about right after 9/11. USA was in fear, and some anger. people were scared.

To be honest, because our leaders, at the time, were darkside people, they went with it and actually increased the fear, and even added much hate, because they believe in using fear and hate to get things done. If you whip a bunch of scared people into a frenzy so that they will allow you to do things that require them to be scared to allow, things of violence and depravity, you are still responsible. Both for what is done, and the lack of leadership.

A good leader would have broken the fear spell. That is done by instilling courage, and yes, also hope, instead of hate and fear.

This is done taking moral high ground and having dignity in your actions. Maybe there should be a mitigating 'everyone was scared' factor. But if you want to run a country of millions of people, you better be able to handle things like that, because you are being looked to for leadership. So it is hard to give top officials just a pass. Running a country is not just a little fun thing you can get to do because you were born with a name, or knew the right people. It is a responsibility with consequences.



I don't know that girls name next to Joe, but she is great, she did not back down and honestly in a respectful way shared her opinion on the issue. It should be her show, and Joe can go back to where ever he is from.

And I really hope Joe doesn't get his way
(and just so Joe can understand what he is advocating, not because I ever wish hardship for him, nor anyone. But just so if he happened to read this he might understand what he is advocating.)

Joe, what if during a complicated part of your life, someone decided finding out the truth was important enough to torture you, and you were whisked away for 6 months to a year. And nothing you said was of value anyway, since torture doesn't work. Again I wish Joe the best of life, and only ask this so he understands that the real reason for torture is to instill fear in many people.

And Joe, if anyone did try to do that to you, they would have to go through me and hundreds of liberals, because we would not allow our government to torture you. We would fight for you Joe, and we would hope the reporters on TV, with there own show would fight against torture too.

Because torture is wrong!

The very articulate woman denouncing torture, who never backed down is Tina Freeland, editor for Financial Times.

because the Frat Boy and the Big Dick told him so.

Blow it out you ass, Joe.

She talks to knowledgeable parties to the interrogations of Khalid Sheik Mohammed who told her that the valuable information was obtained BEFORE the torture began. Scarborough just saids what he wants to believe.

Mika should leave the show. She is lending an air of legitimacy to Scarborough. In fact, Scarborough is not a rational person. He just talks from his emotions unfettered by information. I do not like him.