Funny FKN Planet: There Is No God

Run time: 08:55 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBgfGB9hVDU   Posted on YouTube: February 16, 2009 By YouTube Member: Views on YouTube: 0   Posted on DU: February 16, 2009 By DU Member: Turborama Views on DU: 2273

 

I bet if freepers watched that they would be seething cauldrons of explosive magma ready to strangle that Deke guy and SHUT HIM UP!

What about the tyranny of reason? The Enlightenment was followed by an age of Romanticism, the industrial revolution by Impressionism, the technological age is subverted by Post-Modernism.

Besides is utilitarian purposes, science and reason can be used to an equally domineering effect. "True" or not. I personally don't give a shit if you are a dictatorial scientist or a fanatic Christian, both religion and science can be wielded as a sword to divide and conquer.

Personally, I feel both religious myths, parables, fables and fairy tales have their use and charm, especially in education and artistry. Science also has its uses in industry, medicine, and a myriad of other practical matters. However, besides the creative art of the experiment, science is a dull, boring and dry explanation of the universe's workings.

My favorite sources of inspiration and solace are the places where science and mythos meet. Joseph Campbell's work with mythology, Capra's "Tao of Physics" and numerous other modern texts that explore the intersection between fact and fiction.

When will we all just grow up and have the humility to admit that we really don't have a clue as to what is really happening? Instead, just work on making the journey as interesting as possible.

Who said they didn't? (Both?) Where did you get the notion that people who understand science have no tolerance for the arts?

Give an example please of a "dictatorial scientist." Also tell how you managed to shrink your mind so much that the actual explanations of how the universe works are "dull, boring, and dry." Can you cite the entertaining details of "it's all done by magic?"

--imm

"people who understand science have no tolerance for the arts".

I have a strong understanding of the sciences, as do many of my friends who are researchers, engineers and technicians. It seems you may have read to far into my response. I am also surprised by your personal attack, accusing me of having a shrunken mind. I suppose if I were to start with naming dictatorial scientists I might begin with you and Confusius below.

If one were to look for excesses of science and reason, one would only have to look so far as Wall Street, the Military industrial complex, Modern social engineering, Wall street or Madison Avenue. You are correct that I would be hard pressed to name a singular dictator, though I might start with Alfred Krupp, Wernher Von Braun, Adam Smith, Henry Ford or Machiavelli. However, there are a sea of anonymous faces that have abused science for same purposes as those religious figures that you have such bile for.

I appreciate your dedication to science. I even envy your passion for it. However, it is a bit myopic to assume that others share your views or passions.

The scientific dictators you describe are certainly no more plentiful than religious or other oppressors. Their achievements are coincidental to their personality flaws. I'm also having trouble finding those things that inhabit the "intersection of fact and fiction" as those things would seem mutually exclusive. That's the point of this whole thread; some people treat fiction as if it were fact.

I think Socrates was first but I am most familiar with a quote from Marcus Aurelius: "No form of Nature is inferior to Art; for the arts merely imitate natural forms." Nature is the prime source of beauty, and it is our inherent connection to nature that wires us to appreciate the arts.

Sorry for the personal attack. Perhaps you do not see the hostility in your initial post. And why would you dwell on the "excesses of science and reason" rather than their beauty, which is certainly more plentiful? And starting with the "tyranny of reason" seemed to throw down the gauntlet to those who use it. I am neither a scientist, nor dictatorial. Reason does not need a dictator; it speaks for itself. Actually, a lot of my life's work is in the arts.

The people you mention certainly had their flaws. None would qualify as a dictator, except in some hyperbole. The term scientific dictator really makes no sense. Think it through.

--imm

Then again, I am a theater artist and educator so I consider that a minor fault.

You and I are most likely in agreement in the majority of our opinions, so I apologize if my initial statements were not as finessed as they should be. I am also accused of being an external processor and do not always choose my words carefully. However, I fail to see how a question can be considered hostile or an act of verbal warfare.

I must take umbrage to the idea of me dwelling on the excesses of science and reason. The video was approximately an 8 minute assault on religiosity (an assault for which I am heartily in agreement with), my response took me a couple of minutes to write and you even less time to read. It was merely an observation or a postulation, if you will.

I am not the first to use the phrase "tyranny of reason", both Hegel and Heidegger make use of the term in their writings. It refers to use of logic and reason to elevate argument above morality. For example, in the face of starvation we can logically reason that it is in our best interest to kill our friends in order to give us the opportunity to survive. A calculation that could be proved scientifically, yet would fly in the face of humanity. A more Luddite argument would show the connection between a scientific increase in production through machinery and a correlation in the increase in unemployment for a large sector of the human population. A 19th century Romanticist would argue that the Enlightment, the Age of Reason, led to a devaluation of the life of the uneducated, common people.

Of course, you could argue that science and reason are merely impassionate tools used to measure, describe and manipulate the world. You could say that they are tools that can be used for benefit of society or for its ill. But that is my point. Science is wielded by humans, for better or for worse, just as faith and religiosity are used and abused.

Finally, your quote from Marcus Aurelius is exactly what I speak of when I speak of the intersection between fact and fiction. Any good writer knows that the best fiction is merely "the truth disguised and made interesting". Fiction that bears no relation to reality is mere candy or material made more for masturbation than for thought.

Thank you for your response. I think you are right about my malapropism "Scientific Dictator". Though I have met Dictatorial teachers of science, and I can think of plenty of dictators who made use of science, the term is.... confusing at best.

Peace

You certainly made me think, so it's all worth it. I am a teacher myself, and sometimes a choreographer.

A thought though. I understand your application of the tyranny of reason. I think it requires more of the tyranny of tyranny than any reason.

I'll go with the notion that we probably agree on most things. It's true of most folks I encounter here, but that doesn't preclude the occasional joust. That's the nature of anonymous boards. :hi:

--imm

"tyranny of reason". Are you upset because science says the the stars don't rule your fate? That vaccinations don't cause autism? That homeopathy or smelliopathy is bullshit?

"science and reason can be used to an equally domineering effect." Yea, I guess, if you want to believe in fairies, but science says they don't exist. I guess I would be disappointed too.

"science can be wielded as a sword to divide and conquer" I don't remember any wars being fought over the question " Does that Copper Chloride contain 2 Chloride atoms or one?" as for dividing, only if you believe in Homeopathy, smelliopathy, or fairies. Provable facts are provable by everyone, if you have the time and interest.

"science is a dull, boring and dry explanation" Says who? I find nothing on this world more exciting then reading about growing diamonds which could be used in computers running a terahertz speeds, carbon coatings which are 1000 times slicker then Teflon, or the discovery of planets orbiting stars "close" to our own, etc, etc, etc.

"intersection between fact and fiction" Ahh fiction. See above.

"clue as to what is really happening" I hear scientists say that they don't know, but given time, they will find out. Maybe you will find a clue someday too.

"work on making the journey" Science is what makes the journey exciting for me. The vaccinations, created by science, are what allow me to live right now and not have died when I was 10 years old, and the food I eat right now due to nitrogen fertilizers, created by science.

It wasn't so long ago, the 70's, that polio and smallpox killed millions. Thanks to science, we don't have to worry about that, and can spend our time making stupid, not smart, criticisms. Short memories.

.

Swallow a biter pill today?

"Yea, I guess, if you want to believe in fairies, but science says they don't exist. I guess I would be disappointed too." Some amazing chemists developed Absynthe, allowing me to see little fairies. Empirical evidence thank you very much. I am so sorry that your vision is so clouded.

"I don't remember any wars being fought over the question " Does that Copper Chloride contain 2 Chloride atoms or one?" No but some asshat developed enriched uranium in order to make us all safe. And I guarantee that future wars will be fought because some other ass hats decided that nitrogen fertilizers and vaccinations would save lives. 6 billion lives that are currently overpopulating this planet and destroying their own ecosystem. But that is science for you, neato carbon coatings that only take a few hundred thousand gallons of fresh water to create, but gee are they slick.

It is fun to see you worshiping at the altar of science. So faithful that you cannot even step back and examine the movements in history that I speak of. Science and reason have been abused for the same purposes as religion. Reason, Religion and Romanticism have all had their extremes and historical reactions. I find it sad that a so-called devotee of science and fact cannot find time to even Wikipedia what I am talking about.

BTW, the old stories are the first attempts to reason out the inexplicable. Somewhere along the line some very insecure people turned myth to doctrine. They used doctrine to identify the "other". They used "otherness" to belittle people, make themselves feel important and find excuses to oppress and insult others. Sound familiar? You should look at your response above.

"Absynthe, allowing me to see little fairies." yea, should have figured. alcohol rotted the brain.

"Empirical evidence" You used it WRONG. Direct observation, without the use of alcohol.

"And I guarantee that future wars will be fought because some other ass hats decided that nitrogen fertilizers and vaccinations would save lives." Well I would suggest that you stop living in a house, apt, wearing clothes, eating, because all that came from science. I would expect the side that rejects science would lose, and rather quickly too. Probably in 3 hours or so, no nukes involved.

"6 billion lives that are currently overpopulating this planet and destroying their own ecosystem." Science saves lives, it can't do anything about asshats who want to have to have to many children, want to make a buck, etc. Thats up to philosopy, and it hasn't really done a good job, has it?

"neato carbon coatings that only take a few hundred thousand gallons of fresh water to create" You have no interest in science, so how do you know it takes a few hundred thousand gallons - how do you know it takes even one? YOU DON'T. YOU'RE SPEAKING OUT YOUR ASS. Your little alcohol you love so much takes more water to make then a bunch of bucky balls.

"It is fun to see you worshiping at the altar of science" There is no altar for/at science. There is only the truth. A truth not based on the wims of a man. 1 + 1 = 2 always.

"Science and reason have been abused for the same purposes as religion" Once again, speaking out your ass. You sight no examples of science being abused the same as religion. There is no right/wrong in science. It is up to us to decide what is right or wrong. Science only says "This is possible"

"So faithful that you cannot even step back and examine the movements in history that I speak of" What? bowel movements? thats all I'm seeing from you. No examples. Long sentences that go nowhere and say nothing. Examples WHERE? movements WHERE/ WHEN?

"I find it sad that a so-called devotee of science and fact cannot find time to even Wikipedia what I am talking about" WHAT are you talking about? Wikipedia WHAT? The word MOVEMENT? two posts, no examples, just pulling shit out your ass. Blaming the wrench 'cause your car is broken, and it didn't fix it. Its up to us to use the tools wisely.

"They used doctrine to identify the "other". They used "otherness" to belittle people, make themselves feel important and find excuses to oppress and insult others. Sound familiar? You should look at your response above."

Maybe YOU should read Wikipedia a little more. Science is not like a church where secrets are withheld because the public wouldn't "understand". All things are posted/ printed and can be read and understood, as I said before, by anyone who has the time and desire. I never thought I would understand Calculus, but while difficult, its not impossible. I get high enough in math, I can understand the general theory of relativity. Its only lazy people who don't want to spend the time, or the brainpower, who call it, or compare it, to a "church" or "religion".

If that belittles you, well, I'm not really sorry. You had a choice. Yours was to attack something I deem as valuable without any understanding about how/why/when it works. If you had understanding, I would take you more seriously, but by your statements "dull, boring" "neato stuff needs alot of water" it shows you have none. As someone who HAS studied history and science, I have no desire to go backwards. Attacking science IS a move backward, and I'm not going backwards without a fight.

explain energy - energy doesn't come from nothing. there is a source that was present to produce the massive galaxies. for most people, if you believe in a deity, you believe that the deity knows all, but we are intelligently created and over time, great men & women have used their intricate brains to explore the vastness of space, and slowly but surely we learn some of those mysteries.

we all believe what we want - but I choose to believe the rather simple thought that (beyond my own soul, which I feel is full of wonder and conscience) this existence was created by a creator.

while the religionist will insist that he knows, and then makes shit up to explain what he doesn't know.

Humans are limited in their ability to understand the reality we live in - not as limited as a dog is, or a butterfly is, but limited nonetheless. That doesn't mean that it cannot be understood; nor does it mean there must be a supernatural explanation.

did the what come from ad infinitum.....As Aldous Huxley opined "Time must have a stop"; Other dimensions or even just one being the only answer. God as we know that delusion, in the image of man, had and has nothing to do with it; Except to make our lives as miserable as possible. Time is an illusion, a wobble or ripple in infinity. The illusion of time makes our existence possible and at some point we return to infinity which by its very nature is without time and is without the prison bars that time imposes. Time is a conundrum that cannot be understood without another dimension to explain how time and infinity can coexist. Just a few of my own crackpot theory's. Oh and that other dimension is infinity from which all others spring. Infinity is all and everything rolled up in the collision of yesterday and tomorrow, the past and the future; The explosion of life, that fleeting moment we perceive as now.

computers and the internet, as I rarely get out and about. Thanx for the direction. I've heard of it but never looked any further