Run time: 00:33 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=URAAfREIRGA   Posted on YouTube: August 01, 2011 By YouTube Member: ThinkProgress6 Views on YouTube: 303   Posted on DU: August 01, 2011 By DU Member: Amerigo Vespucci Views on DU: 4083

 

Nothing wrong with that analogy. I refuse to let modern sensibilities change the very clear meaning of the term. Not a fucking thing racist about it.

Run time: 00:33 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=URAAfREIRGA   Posted on YouTube: August 01, 2011 By YouTube Member: ThinkProgress6 Views on YouTube: 303   Posted on DU: August 01, 2011 By DU Member: jberryhill Views on DU: 4083

 

In general, discussions of whether "tar baby" is or is not a primarily racist term (despite its origin in African folklore), draw in people who find it difficult to disengage once they have decided to become a part of them.

IS A RACIST REFERENCE. It IS and HAS BEEN for the 6 decades I've been alive.

This is PERFECT EXAMPLE of what Empowerer was asking on this thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Have YOU ever been the lone dark-skinned in the class, surrounded by bullying kids on the playground calling you a black, stinky tar baby? Have you ever considered how you might perceive such an experience? THAT was over 50 YEARS AGO.

I loved it when my Aunt Carole read Uncle Remus to us because she could do so many voices and dialects. I understood the metaphor as did my siblings and cousins.

I personally experienced the reference morph into a racial slur.


As an ESL language trainer abroad, I can assure you of one thing linguistically.

USAGE. ALWAYS. TRUMPS.

ALWAYS.

Not a fucking thing racist about it?

I am one of those who was familiar with the term as a general reference to an intractable situation from which one cannot disengage.

As always, the point of these things is that the perception of it as a racist term is sufficient grounds to avoid its use.

Sorry...no sale. Respect your opinion, but no sale.

As I said, I understand it is perceived that way.

Some folks are genuinely surprised when they run into the perception that it is a racist term.

It is not like rap artists using the N word, which has always been an offensive term.

This particular phrase is derived from an African folk tale about a doll made of a sticky substance used as a trap. It is unlikely that the Africans with whom the story originated intended it to have a racist connotation at all, since the "tar" reference is due to it being a sticky substance, and not about color.

But, again and to be clear, because it is perceived as racist, it is best not used.

It is at this point like using "gay" to denote a state of happiness - it is simply unlikely to be perceived in that sense anymore.

Another "dead word" is "niggardly", which has nothing to do with race, but is often perceived as such by those unfamiliar with the word. The solution, again, is to avoid using it.

So, by "no sale", you do not agree with my conclusion it is a term best not used?

Niggardly is just misunderstood. It never has had a tie to the racial epithet. It just sounds like it does and I agree with you - best avoid using it because of the confusion.

Tarbaby and gay have both evolved to have meanings that are not as benign as the original sense. Gay most certainly has become principally associated with homosexuality rather than glee. The debate on DU is always whether the same is true for tarbaby. The OET accept the racial slur history of tarbaby and that's good enough for me to presume that when someone uses it in the context of an African-American president there's nothing benign about that choice -- it's little different from portraying Obama as a monkey.

In what sense is the current understanding of the word "gay" "not benign"?

Anyone who uses "niggardly" is simply looking for trouble, and for no good reason at this point.

Ideally, the question would be what is Doug Lamborn's understanding and intent in using the term "tar baby".

Gay when used correctly in modern context is fine, but it's also sometimes used as an epithet. The older common usage did not have any derogatory sense.

While I don't like the use of the N-word at all, for many black people (e.g., rap artists) it is a form of claiming back something used against them as their own. They take the word and say, "OK, this is a horrible word. But when we use it, we can change its meaning for those in our group." This is empowering in that they take something forbidden and make it permissible to themselves while still forbidding it to others. Thus, it is still not OK for someone who is not black to use it (unless you are writing/directing "Pulp Fiction").

Many in the black community hate its use as well; however, language ownership is continually fluid to one degree or another.

Although Christian came full circle from "pejorative", to "owned by the group", to "actual name of the group".

"Mormon" has done the full loop as well.

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IBTL

so break my heart...

Tante K

maybe it's because he get's called disgusting racist names everyday, somewhere on a radio or a TV in America.

I just learned Limbaugh calls him Iman Obama frequently.

called Lamborn's office and told the kid to Google tar-baby and then hit images. I'm the same age as this jerk - My mother told me to never use this term, ever.