Gang-Banger shoots his mouth off to cop -- faces 15 year sentence.

:nopity:

It's about time...

Instead of trying to curtail gun related gang violence by passing even more useless/feel good gun control laws, how about dealing with those directly responsible for the bloodshed instead.

I hope Mr. Carr enjoys his stay.




Full story

Holy shit!

...

Also let me add this coming from someone who's son's friend was murdered by a gang member - so I know full well how freaking evil they can be and the pain and suffering they cause.

However, I won't let my disgust of gangs cloud my judgment of what is appropriate punishment for a specific incident.

through college as a cop in Tulsa and I saw a LOT of inexcusable behavior on their part. And I wholeheartedly condemn that kind of crap but I've also encountered more than few on-the-verge punks like this one seems to be.
I don't cut them any slack either. Sometimes preventative measures really are justified.

eom

15 years for mouthing off seems a little harsh, but could he possibly have been any more stupid? I can't say that I feel too bad about a moron like that being temporarily suspended from society.

Probably the charge won't stick or get bargained down to something lesser. It also doesn't sound like Mr. Carr is that much of a gangsta--a professional criminal wouldn't take such a stupid risk. He's a wannabe and a good candidate for some kind of diversion program IMO.

There was a big anti-gang push using injunctions in a town near me but it fell apart because it was ultimately illegal. I hate gangs, they've wrecked the quality of life in many places I've lived, but I really think prevention is more effective than prosecution. (That and I'm no fan of cops or prosecutors.)

Sounds like he thinks he's a damned bad ass and is heading way down the wrong path.

hot-heads with a quick temper and a feeling of bravado don't stop to think about "stupid" or the consequences of their actions.

he would be in more trouble with his homies than with the law for talking this shit. That's why I doubt he's a real gangster.

on edit: Note also that he wasn't actually packing when stopped. Pretty good sign that he is not fully "in the life."

the gang bangers are all dumb

Maybe the cop just made up the entire exchange? :shrug:

On the other hand, if he did indeed threaten the officer, then he should face charges... if they can prove he did it. Very likely the defendant will get a state attorney who does not give a fuck about him or his case.

Nevertheless, 15 years for this offense is outrageous.

15 sounds just about right to me...

We better call Halliburton and ask them to build 10,000 new prisons.

Oddly enough, it happens whenever I suggest people should have the right to defend themselves against hoodlums.
I guess that's not acceptable in certain DU circles...
:eyes:

but this really sounds odd. If that kid is that stupid then he could use some time to think about life. BUT I'm not sure I'm buying the bravado on this one.


hmmmmmm

I cannot believe people so fucking willing to take away another person's freedom just because they mouthed off. Jesus wept man. The land of Happy Fascists.
Lee

A gang member threatened his life. That is significantly more than "mouthing off."

The average sentence for murder is 15 years in this country. So that they are willing to take 15 years of a young man's life for ANYTHING VERBAL is crap. I think not. It sucks.
Lee

and frankly, he was willing to give away his life when the threatened the life of another.

Is it that you hate the establishment so badly that it is ok with you that they are threatened or killed? Would you feel the same if say, the guy was a high school student saying the same thing on campus? When should we take threats seriously? When they are in the process of pulling the trigger? Or is everything ok with you?

Where are YOUR lines that you define mine as fascism?

Anytime ANYONE is locked up for 15 years for just mouthing off...it's fascism. There is an in-between. What a crock. Next we will have the thought police.

THE GUY MOUTHED OFF. In what bizarro reality do you take 15 years of someone's life for FUCKING MOUTHING OFF. I guess you've never been locked up. I have.

It's almost worse than fascism that they would even consider locking someone up for 15 years for saying ANYTHING. THERE ARE NO WORDS THAT DESERVE THAT. Posturing and bravado are common at that age, with boys/men. If we locked up every person who ever said anything threatening in the heat of the moment, we would have jails brimming over. Oh wait, we already do have jails brimming over...but I guess it's ok if it's a oooooooh...gang member.

...and wow, I'm sure he will come out of jail a much much better person because they rehabilitate people in jail...hahahahahaha. All this will accomplish is to make SURE this young man NEVER has a chance...NOT EVER. It's actually HIS life that has been stolen...and it will make sure that when he does come out...someone will die.

...and that people accept this without much question or outrage makes me want to vomit.


Lee

consequences for a self-professed gang member who essentially threatens an officer?

15 years is likely not the starting point for the crime of threatening someones life...the guy must have criminal history to reach that level of prison time. So, it is not accurate to suggest that he is getting 15 years for "mouthing off."

The definition you have of "mouthing off" is different than mine. It is also different than the societal norm as it is not against the law to "mouth off," but is to threaten someone's life.

You act as if someone is doing something to this "young man" who will never have a chance at life. He threatened to kill someone with an AK47. He did it to himself. Indeed he made it clear that he had the means and the motive to carry out his threat. Very scary stuff.

"Bizarro reality" "Fascism"--how will we ever learn anything from each other if all you do is call names instead of discuss?

You know what makes me want to vomit? People getting killed by idiot-bad-ass-wanna-bes who would not hesitate to threaten an innocent person.

For going to a protest...

If he serves his entire time he'll be 34 when he gets out, a hardened criminal with few prospects for a legitimate lifestyle. At that same time, I'll be 71 and immensely muggable. Sounds like a bad combination.

The land of martial law...for insulting the poor widdle cop.
Lee

which is why they can charge him.

However, it just sounds a bit over the top.

"Could be" isn't a good enough reason to take away fifteen years of a young man's life. ...and what kind of person will prison turn him into? Defeating the purpose...the pound-of-flesh mentality defeats itself...
Lee

my point was IF he did indeed threaten a police officer he cannot get away with it either.

No less than 10 years though.

Carr isn't be tried/charged for threatening/"insulting the poor widdle cop"... he's being tried/charged as an admitted gang member threatening/"insulting the poor widdle cop".

Some here have doubts about his gang affiliation claims; I can only go by his statements and for right now have no reason to doubt his claims.

Moral of the story/lesson learned...

<Chris Rock>

Be Polite!

</Chris Rock>

I can't wait until it's illegal to be a leftist or a ..... This isn't nazi Germany...oh wait, maybe it is. The only person here who's life is being stolen is the young man's. What a crock of crap. Nazi police state.

Ooooh...and I am so sure he will come out a much better person. I've been locked up. Have you? That they could even consider that it is moral to lock someone up for that long, when the average sentence for actual real murder, in this country, is 15 years, is sick sick sick sick.

...and now I know who here, is really a progressive and who isn't. No progressive would EVER even consider that it is okay to steal someone's life for having a big fucking mouth. Makes me want to puke at how easily people are willing to steal other people's lives.
Lee

I think that most people who are so gung ho about long jail/prison sentences have never been locked up. All they know about jail/prison is fantasy images from tv and movies. I only had to spend a couple of days in jail, but boy did it fucking open my eyes to how fucked up it is in there. No, they are not clean. No, people are not taken care of. Yes, they are way overcrowded (tell me what's the point in locking cells, when easily 1/3rd of the inmates in the block aren't even sleeping in cells- because there's NO fucking room). Everyone is harassed. I was asked by a fucking officer if I was a man, the day after I was fucking strip searched, alright, the female officer saw my cooch for christ's sake. This is not an environment where people are rehabilitated and made contributing members of society.

Yeah, I've been locked up more than once. It's a horror. This is The New Pollyanna Fascism.

I can't even believe it though am happy to understand who is truly a progressive and who the hell isn't.

Lee

are black-and-white thinkers when it comes to law. reality is not black and white.

I just researched his supposed gang...The B-town Boys. Black/Haitian...of course. He wouldn't be in jail if he was white. The cop wouldn't have perceived him as threatening. The cop would have recognized posturing and bravado...
Lee

amounts to a bit more than "insulting the poor widdle cop". Tell you what - next time you go before a judge for any reason...traffic ticket, disturbing the peace...tell the judge that he's lucky you don't have an M-16 because you're a judge killer, he's going to need a gun, and you regularly roll with an AK-47. Let me know how that turns out for you.

Sounds like the cop was threatening the kids life.

It says "...pointing to an officer's AR-15 rifle...". That could mean it was in the cop's car in a gunrack, or another officer could've been holding it while the arresting officer was asking him if he had weapons in the car. I've never heard of a routine traffic stop where the cop approaches the driver of the vehicle while aiming an AR-15 at him. If they're that worried about the driver being violent, they will stay back and order the driver out of the car and onto the ground before they even approach the vehicle.

I would venture to say that this encounter was caught by a video camera mounted in the police cruiser or else there wouldn't be any grounds for the DA to charge the "child/teenager/sweet innocent youngster" with this crime. A DA is not going to charge someone with a felony over a "he said / she said" case unless that DA is Mike Nifong and he's up for re-election. And notice the cop arrested him based on the law that provides for a 5 year maximum sentence. It was the DA who, after reviewing the evidence, decided it warranted the more serious possibility of a 15 year maximum.

Sounds like abuse of power to me.

...

This is the biggest crock of crap and everyone so willing to lock-step and support this fascist mentality is also a big crock of crap. Kids are full of bravado. So what.
Lee

I know...karlschneider's gonna swear it's A-OK to send someone to prison for 15 years over this. It's nonsense.

If the prosecutors can't get a real charge, they make one up. It may make the karlschneider's of the world feel all righteous and chest-pumpy, but it is remarkably stupid and incredibly dangerous.

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thats great! seriously, we don't have ENOUGH people in prison. we need to fill those empty jail cells! :sarcasm:

The catch and release system is a much better alternative.

:sarcasm:

I say...

Eliminate the "War on Drugs" (within reason), and free up about 1/3 (or more), of the prison space. If a person is still part of an organized gang engaging in criminal activity or violent behavior, then adios... see you in 15 - 20 years. No sweat off my balls. :shrug:

making crappy body armor for 'our troops' for 10 cents an hour in the glorious prison industry. Sounds like you just got yourself enslaved, kid.

Welcome to China.

threaten to blow someone away with an AK-47. First Amendment has nothing to do with this.

Yeah because sending him to prison FOR FUCKING MOUTHING OFF...he will come out a much much better person. Pound-of-fleshers really don't get it...

This is fascism. Period. ...and you don't get 15 years for yelling "fire" in a crowded theater.
Lee

not sold on him actually having said those words. Maybe there will be a videotape that comes out to confirm it. Oh and spare me the "You don't like cops" routine because i have never had any problems with the police and the last time i got pulled over by the chp for an illegal window tint i actually said "Thank you" when CHP officer handed me the citation. He was very nice BTW but really "Thank you"?

Although I'm sure this older kid is scum, it's the system that needs to be evaluated here. I can think of a lot of creative punishments that would give this guy freedom and punishment at the same time (I mean clockwork orange type stuff), but since our system would deem them 'unusual' they would never be tried and this guy will be used to support the war/corporate machine. The U.S. really is in dire straights.

why an officer needs an AR-15 on a routine traffic stop?

Who was threatening who?

To provoke the bravado of young men so they can pop them for what's really NOTHING?
Lee

Your average radio car contains 400 pounds of communications equipment, road flares, first-aid kits, life rings, spike strips, cages, ropes, leg irons, blankets... and typically a rifle and/or shotgun.

The rifle is typically a semiautomatic in .223 and the shotgun is usually a 12-gauge pump. Think AR-15 or Mini-14 for the rifle and Remington 870 or Mossberg 500 for the shotgun.

They carry rifles now because pistol rounds and shotgun buckshot can't penetrate body armor. The North Hollywood shootout 10 years ago hammered that point home as 9mm slugs and .33-caliber pellets bounced with little effect off of the body armor the two bank robbers had.

Some departments store them in the trunk, some in the passenger compartment in a lockable rack next to the radios. The don't normally grab them unless the shit is really hitting the fan.

Some departments store them in the trunk, some in the passenger compartment in a lockable rack next to the radios. The don't normally grab them unless the shit is really hitting the fan.

Just remember. A sidearm is only something to use until you can get your hands on a battle rifle.

The pistol is common because it is convienent, not because it is the most effective weapon. It's hard to jump into a squad car or arrest a suspect with a rifle slung around your torso.

If he serves even a year, he will be more hardened and once he is released, he just may kill a cop...even if it's not the one he mouthed off to.

If they can do it to gang bangers, they can do it to antiwar protesters. Something to think about.

I have a problem w/prosecutors dragging out arcane laws to "make an example", that doesn't affect anyone besides the perpetrator anyway. Social mores do more to deter behavior like this that laws do, but the mores this man seems to attached himself to seem to deter him from being a respectable citizen.

What I see here is a remarkably foolish individual, and I hate to say this w/o having more information, but this man was either stoned, or unbelievably stupid. If he was out to "prove" himself, he succeeded only on "proving he is an idiot. To think that with a "no weapons sir" would most likely have this man going home w/o incident, instead, he might not see home for a long time, to me borders on complete idiocy. I have to wonder if he is in some serious regret at this point?

All that being said, as far as the law goes, there was no threat directly to the officer at the time, no one pulled a weapon, and apparently there was no weapon of any reason to arrest this guy. Arresting people for being stupid, at least at this point is pretty lame.

Particularly with regards to no-knock entries and other drug war tactics, but if this guy really said what the cops reported he's so monumentally dumb that he deserves some time off. Preferably in some minimum-security lockup where he would be separated from other gangbangers.

However, I'd need to know a ton more about the case to pass judgment; there could be some old vendetta against this guy on the part of the cops or some other reason to disbelieve that he said what they claim. If it's true, though... damn. If he wasn't fucked up on a dozen drugs at the time he's in the running for biggest moron in history.

the hard way....

While I don't know this particular person in the article, I have encountered some of these charming "children". They are animals. I'm not a little guy, I'm 6' and tip the scales at 215 -not fat. I had a couple of these pillars of society decide they wanted to confront the construction worker(I was working alone). The situation was very tense and could easily have resulted in them incurring an acute case of lead poisoning about the head and chest area. They, however, withdrew at the last possible moment. One of these scumbags threatened a police officer? Send his stupid ass to prison. 15 years may be a bit much, but then again, they may be saving some civilians life by doing that.

So says Nancy Grace the flaring nostrils of justice.

Used selectively and inconsistently, their primary purpose is to either illicit a confession or simply punish those that the cops don't like.

Five years for threatening a cop, OK, I can see it, barely. Fifteen years is a long, long time. And people wonder why the cops become ever more hated figures.

15 years in prison for mouthing off? Is it any wonder that the "land of the free" leads the world in prisoners per capita and in absolute number of prisoners?

Sometimes I think a society deserves the criminals it generates. A mean, vicious, punishing society generates mean, vicious criminals.

For progressives to support harsh sentences like this is just stupid.

Think of the children. :P

because his ass is in jail.

Are you willing to imprison people for years based on their potential to commit a crime?

He made a verbal threat. Did you forget that little detail?

It makes me sick to my stomach that anyone could support this. I now know who is NOT REALLY a progressive. Jesus fucking Christ man, if they locked up every young man who postures and is full of bravado...the prisons would be even more overflowing than they already are. This must be the land of the Democratic Fascist....*snort*.

...and we know how much better a person he will be when he gets out due to the wonderful rehabilitation we practice with our prisoners. It's this young man's life that has been stolen. They should be ashamed and I will NEVER consider ANYONE who supports this a progressive. NOT EVER.
Lee

If the guy was just talking, then, yeah, it's way overrated. But if the guy was screaming, making violent gestures, threats, using the officer's name explicitly, threatening the officer's family... A couple of months in the cooler sounds good to me. Not fifteen years. But enough to punish without totally taking away his life.

I'll wait for the video before deciding.

Yes, a couple of months to cool his little heels and see exactly what that life might lead to...OK. 15 years...well I personally do not think of young black males as disposable. Sorry some here do.
Lee

I highly doubt he's a real thug. He wouldn't act like such a punk. Chances are he's just some dumbass kid who thinks he's hard. Ahh, but give him 15 years in prison and what kind of person do you think he will turn out to be? A contributing respectful "Yes, Sir!" member of society? Yeah, right. Because that's how it works. :sarcasm:
What kind of people do you think he's going to be learning from in prison?

into either a gangbanger or a sex slave.

had gotten out of the car and punched the officer, he'd have gotten far far less the 15 years.

5 years in prison, or 5 years in Iraq. Take your pick.

... is that most of them are too fucking stupid to learn it. I guess he will have 5-15 to try to figure it out though.

I just did some research on The B-Town Boys...the gang this kid belonged to and lo and behold...Haitian. Of course they are...black... Bravado is OK only if it comes from the mouths of the lily-white boys.

One of the articles I found also said the prosecutors are RARELY successful using this expanded fascist little law...so nanananana....'cause I just don't think of black young men as DISPOSABLE. Sorry so many of you do. ...and do your own googling. I am not your researcher. It's out there, easy to find.
Lee

http://www.haitiwebs.com/forums/diaspora-news/41545-boynton-beach-fl-gang-tie-probed-mall-slaying-berno-charlemond.html

BOYNTON BEACH ? Jesse Cesar, whom police once linked to a gang-related murder, went to the Boynton Beach Mall with a gun and unleashed what police say could have become a Columbine-like incident.
snip
What ensued was a crime more violent and chaotic than police had ever seen at the mall: It had police dodging bullets, shoppers screaming and trampling one another, and Charlemond dying outside a record store.
snip
And, although Berno Charlemond was the victim Sunday, he had taken a gun onto the mall property a month ago. He and three other men were arrested there for reportedly carrying weapons because of a gang feud.
snip
A feud between several small gangs in south Palm Beach County has led to numerous drive-by shootings this year. Top 6 Records, which law enforcement considers a gang, reportedly oversees six smaller, predominantly Haitian or Haitian-American neighborhood-based groups in the Boynton Beach, Lantana and Lake Worth areas, authorities say. There are more than 100 members.
-----

http://knowgangs.com/news/aug06/2805.php

The recent wave of gang shootings and drive-bys around Boynton Beach isn't over drugs, money or turf.
snip
It started in February, when a girl who was dating a member of one gang started going out with a member of another. That sparked a fight that ended in a shooting in the parking lot of Club Boca west of Boca Raton.

Frisner St. Cyr, 24, who police said is a member of the gang B-Town Boys, suffered minor injuries.

B-Town Boys, of Boynton Beach, and a rival gang, San Castle Soldiers, based north of the city, have been in a street war using military assault rifles and automatic handguns.
------

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/broward/sfl-cpantigangs28may28,0,4494742.story?coll=sfla-news-broward

Boynton Beach fails to curb gang problem
Boynton Beach · The city has made several attempts to curb the gang violence that has gripped Palm Beach County.

Following the fatal Christmas Eve shooting inside the Boynton Beach Mall, officials publicly recognized the gang presence and scrambled to find ways to stop the killings. They held meetings, encouraged other cities to be more proactive and even passed a loitering ordinance aimed at keeping gang members from gathering.

---------
http://www.palmbeachpost.com/localnews/content/local_news/epaper/2007/05/06/m1a_TOUSSAINT_0506.html
School's caring counter gangs
snip
Isaiah's parents are dead. He lives with six cousins in a small house on Sterling Avenue. The area is home to the Sterling Boys, a Haitian gang in Delray Beach. Two months ago while walking home from the movies, someone, somewhere, started to shoot. Isaiah ran home that night, praying he wouldn't die.
snip
"When I was running, I could feel a bullet go right past me," he said, shrugging his shoulders. "I go through struggles every day. That's part of life."
snip
Palm Beach County authorities have identified at least 130 gangs in the county, and nearly a dozen fatal shootings in the past year have shocked the community to attention.

All of the shootings, according to police, have involved young Haitian men, including three who were killed in late March in an assassination-style shooting. Gunmen burst into a Lake Worth back yard and opened fire on a domino game.



"mouthing off?" Sounds like that gang has a history of significant violence in the community, which takes the "mouthing off" to a whole new level.

but how many "lily-white" gangbangers have you had directly threaten your life?

and Dick Cheney, just to name two.

Sorry, I hate the both of them too, but there are far more gangbangers than corporate rapists. The effects are often the same, but they are different.