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The Atheists are coming! Bill O'Reilly is very afraid

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Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010)

Synnical

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Fri Jun-08-07 09:32 PM
Original message

The Atheists are coming! Bill O'Reilly is very afraid

Edited on Fri Jun-08-07 09:41 PM by Synnical

http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=21051

Edit for formating

Atheism is chic, it's cool, it's the latest craze. The bookstores are chock full of authors declaring that "God Is Not Great," that God is a "Delusion," that you are a moron if you believe in the Deity.

The secular press, of course, loves these books, and the reviews are largely admirable. Some of the books are also selling very nicely, as it's been a long time since atheists had much to cheer about.|

. . . . .

Thus, I was looking forward to debating the most successful of the atheist authors, Richard Dawkins, who wrote the best seller "The God Delusion." Dawkins basically says that science can explain everything on earth, and no one has any direct evidence there is a God.

But I stopped him in the fourth round with this right hook: "(the earth) had to come from somewhere. And that is the leap of faith you guys (atheists) make, that it just somehow happened."

Dawkins replied: "You're the one who needs a leap of faith, the onus is on you to say why you believe in something ... you believe in, presumably, the Christian God Jesus."

"Jesus is a real guy," I said. "I know what he did. I'm not positive that Jesus is God, but I'm throwing in with him rather than throwing in with you guys, because you guys can't tell me how it all got here."

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wildhorses

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Fri Jun-08-07 09:35 PM
Response to Original message

1. i am not surprised --

bill is also afraid of his own shadow...

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Zenlitened

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Fri Jun-08-07 09:39 PM
Response to Original message

2. Um, Pastor O'Reilly? Where did God come from?

:shrug:

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redphish

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Fri Jun-08-07 09:42 PM
Response to Reply #2

3. Exactly.

"Jesus is a real guy," I said. "I know what he did. I'm not positive that Jesus is God, but I'm throwing in with him rather than throwing in with you guys, because you guys can't tell me how it all got here."

Well neither can he Billo.

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Booster

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Fri Jun-08-07 09:43 PM
Response to Original message

4. Bill O should be afraid of Jesus Christ because if God IS his Dad

Bill O is going to Hell.

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rurallib

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Fri Jun-08-07 09:43 PM
Response to Original message

5. Falafel Man ducks a question and declares victory!

Suck on this falafel, atheist!

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BlooInBloo

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Fri Jun-08-07 09:48 PM
Response to Original message

6. Once again "man would rather will nothing than not will at all". Idiots.

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greendog

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Fri Jun-08-07 10:10 PM
Response to Original message

7. So, if my "invisible man" came to O'Reilly's Church...

...and kidnapped their "invisible man" would ol' Bill notice that "his guy" was missing?

What would be an appropriate ransom for something you can't see?

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Swede

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Fri Jun-08-07 10:18 PM
Response to Original message

8. God created the universe,part of it is evolution.

Why would anyone have trouble with timetravel,lightspeed,hyperspace, etc it you really beleived in a supreme being?

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AlCzervik

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Fri Jun-08-07 10:19 PM
Response to Original message

9. usually i disagree with Hitchens on many things but his new book is excellent

i really enjoyed it.

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Warren DeMontague

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Sat Jun-09-07 03:33 PM
Response to Reply #9

35. Just goes to show, even the worst raving drunks can make occasional sense

from time to time.

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Bitwit1234

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Fri Jun-08-07 10:35 PM
Response to Original message

10. ONE think I can't find anywhere about these people

what is the name of their religion. Their practices are so foreign to any type of religion I know.

The hate people who are not the same color, don't believe the same thing, they hate people who don't follow along in lock step with bush, they love war, they love killing, they tell lies and distort the truth. They don't believe in helping those in need. Damn I always thought those kind of people worshiped the devil.

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jazzjunkysue

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Fri Jun-08-07 10:44 PM
Response to Original message

11. Tell him not to worry. I don't have his address. I'm not coming.

I'd rather have root canal.

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BoneDaddy

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Fri Jun-08-07 10:49 PM
Response to Original message

12. Religious fundamentalists and hard core athiests are the same ilk

both claim certainty....both suffer from the same ignorance.

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Hamlette

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Fri Jun-08-07 11:20 PM
Response to Reply #12

13. Bone Daddy, you are SO wrong.

fundamentalists are people who believe every word in the Bible is true. It does not matter what evidence comes along to disprove something in the Bible. They will say the evidence is wrong and the Bible is right.

Atheists are exactly the opposite. We "believe" in those things for which there is the most convincing proof or evidence. If someone could show me evidence for the existence of God tomorrow...I'm there. I would, however, want to know where HE came from.

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BoneDaddy

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Fri Jun-08-07 11:51 PM
Response to Reply #13

14. I may not be talking bout you per se

but many atheists act as if they KNOW what reality is with as much conviction as those who claim they know. I do not agree with any fundamentalist be they religious or atheist. I may admit I may be wrong...can you?

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Hamlette

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Sat Jun-09-07 01:22 AM
Response to Reply #14

15. fundamentalism does not mean you KNOW something, it means you believe the Bible

(or other holy book) is inerrant.

I don't know what atheists you're talking about so I can't comment. I've read all the recent books, Harris, Dawkins, Hitchens. None of them are fundamentalists. I'm not sure exactly what a fundamentalist atheist would be. What would be their inerrant text? Darwin? I'm pretty on board with Darwin, as are they, but then again, show me how Darwin was wrong and I'll change my mind.

Its only that I need proof.

I think what you mean to say is some atheists are outspoken. It drives some people crazy when I say "I don't believe there is a god." Just me saying those words angers some people. I guess because they consider it blasphemy. But its the price we pay for living in a free society. I get to say it and they get to be offended.

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BoneDaddy

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Sat Jun-09-07 10:35 AM
Response to Reply #15

16. It doesn't drive me crazy as you are entitled to your opinion

and I am not saying Darwin was wrong either as evolution and a higher form of consciousness in the universe are not mutually exclusive to me.

Fundamentalism, to me, is the idea that we know the ultimate reality and that our way is the "right" way. It is the certainty of the religious and the certainty of the atheists that I struggle against. Each group thinks they know the ultimate reality. I think that is foolish, arrogant and myopic.

I have read many atheist views and think that they respond mostly to the Abrahamic religious views and challenge them. I don't disagree with their criticisms at all. I do not believe in an Abrahamic God so to speak but I do acknowledge that we do not have all the answers about the universe and cede the possibility that there may very well be a higher form of consciousness, order or pattern that is mystery and always will be.

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Nikki Stone1

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Sat Jun-09-07 12:29 PM
Response to Reply #16

29. popcorn

:popcorn:

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BoneDaddy

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Sat Jun-09-07 10:00 PM
Response to Reply #29

41. with or without butter?

that is the question.

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Hamlette

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Sat Jun-09-07 03:58 PM
Response to Reply #16

36. fine, you can define "fundamentalism" any way you want but the rest of us

(including the dictionary) define it as literal interpretation of the bible.

If you want to define fundamentalist as people who are convinced that their way is the "right" way I think you include everyone, including yourself. (Your ultimate reality is that people who think they know everything are "foolish, arrogant and myopic." You are as convinced you are right as I am that I am right.)

We can't have a discussion if we do not agree on the meaning of the words we use.

And honestly? It tends to push my buttons when people say atheists are "fundamentalist" because of the definition of the word "fundamentalist".

Maybe you should consider "self righteous" instead since I think that might be closer to what you mean.

Just saying.

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BoneDaddy

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Sat Jun-09-07 09:56 PM
Response to Reply #36

38. Actually

I think a fundamentalist attitude exists where ever there is the "certainty" that there is only "one" way to view anything. I don't believe that at all, as I think there are many aspects to truth. I am not even attached to my viewpoint, cause it is after all, just a view point.

In general I tend to agree with the atheist position in reference to traditional religious views, I just think that there is something beyond the atheist postition, something greater than we can possibly understand from our limited intellectual position. Some physicists postulate 10 dimensions that cannot be "proven" but there is enough mathematical evidence to point to a deeper reality than we can perceive or understand at this point. That is faith to me. Not the faith of any Abrahamic religion, but the faith that we will NEVER understand the deep complexities of a universe that is in front of us.

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SidDithers

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Sat Jun-09-07 10:18 PM
Response to Reply #16

46. What is the atheist certain of?...nt

Sid

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BoneDaddy

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Sat Jun-09-07 10:24 PM
Response to Reply #46

47. They are certain

that their position that there is no higher being is true... I agree with the denial of the "masks of God" that our previous cultures have put forth but to say with certainty that there is no GOD or higher order of consciousness to the universe is equally "certain" as those with more fundamentalist beliefs.

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SidDithers

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Sat Jun-09-07 10:33 PM
Response to Reply #47

49. Most atheists don't claim certainty about the non-existence of god...

Edited on Sat Jun-09-07 10:33 PM by SidDithers

just that without any evidence to the contrary, there's no reason to include a god in their personal philosophy. They live their lives without god.

Some atheists, on the other hand, do actively believe that there is no god. But if, by your definition, that makes them fundamentalist, how does that not make EVERYONE who believes in the truth of their position that there IS a god also a fundamentalist?

Sid

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pink-o

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Sat Jun-09-07 01:25 PM
Response to Reply #14

31. It's all a matter of degrees..

..as an agnostic, I'll wait until I can get more conclusive information--and I can't possibly use a 5000 year old "bible" written by a bunch of men with their own agendas as proof. When God wants to make himself known to me, I'll be ready to listen. Till then, I'll only drawn conclusions on information that I have at hand.

I take many scientific doctrines with a grain of salt as well. But to anyone with a pair of eyes, evolution is bloody obvious, a species survives if it can adapt to its physical environment. Also, science humbles us: it makes us confront the hard truth that humans are not superior in any way (this God's image crap is the first in a long line of fairy tales I have issues with) it eliminates racism, judgement and that whole Manifest Destiny that's gotten us into so much trouble.

I also believe that in order to evolve into what humans are meant to be, the time has come to put away the fairy tales and the easy answers, we have to start dealing life based on reality. Religion had its place a few centuries ago--I wouldn't be here if my ancestors hadn't designated themselves as the Chosen People, and used their strong faith to survive a pogram or two!--but it's necessary for us as a species to grow without it.

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BoneDaddy

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Sat Jun-09-07 09:58 PM
Response to Reply #31

39. I tend to agree

with your postion. )

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dansolo

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Sun Jun-10-07 10:47 AM
Response to Reply #13

52. What you just described in an agnostic

Not an atheist. Agnostics believe in the possible existence of God, but believe that there is no evidence currently to prove it. Atheists deny the existence of God absolutely, and because of that belief, believe that there will never be any possible evidence that could prove the existence of God.

I consider myself to be agnostic, with deist tendencies. That is, I don't believe that God exists, but that if God really did exist, then God was responsible for the initial creation (Big Bang?), but that natural processes took over from that point.

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pink-o

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Sun Jun-10-07 03:07 PM
Response to Reply #52

55. We agnostics merely state...

...that we DON'T BLOODY **KNOW** the answer, so we reserve judgement. I personally don't think of it as a "belief system", but merely that the jury is still deliberating the evidence--or lack of.

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treestar

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Sat Jun-09-07 10:47 AM
Response to Reply #12

17. IA, when it comes right down to it, an atheist can't prove there is no

God either.

It's a perfectly open question, and always will be, only the agnostic or the deist is truly honest.

I think we need to merge all religions into one simple religion with nothing to it other than what the Deist would put forth for it. I'm not sure what the closest present religion is, but it might be any given Native American religion (I always liked "Great Spirit") or maybe the Unitarians or the Quakers.

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Commie Pinko Dirtbag

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Sat Jun-09-07 10:55 AM
Response to Reply #17

18. When an atheist says "there is no god," it usually means

that the gods people around the world worship are, with 100% probability, fiction. Ditto for any deity that may be invented in the future and whose stories violate the laws of Nature so badly.

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BoneDaddy

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Sat Jun-09-07 09:59 PM
Response to Reply #18

40. Agreed

I think the "atheist" position is exactly that. A refutement of the certainty of the "masks of God" that people place their certainty in. I think the complexity of reality is so much more deeper and powerful than any "mythology" out there. Consciousness, like DNA, is an evolutionary process.

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MindPilot

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Sat Jun-09-07 10:56 AM
Response to Reply #17

19. Can't prove a negative

Prove to me there is no invisible, completely undetectable code running in the web page you are looking at right now that makes you have to pee after drinking coffee.

Do you have to pee after drinking coffee? Then obviously the script is working.

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treestar

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Sat Jun-09-07 11:02 AM
Response to Reply #19

20. Yeah, but it will still always be a mystery why we are here

And it seems an inevitable part of human nature to wonder about that. I don't mind that, it's the certainty that seems off. Some people have to have an answer for everything. Several of them are my relatives. They are convinced of the rightness of the Catholic Church, but you can always get aht sort of doubt coming through, because they protest so much. One can just never know for sure.

Not that I think one religion will turn out to be "right." But more that all religions are expressing the same thing.

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MindPilot

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Sat Jun-09-07 11:35 AM
Response to Reply #20

22. It is very normal to wonder, but there is also the real possibility

that there is no why. Instead of why are we, perhaps the real question is how are we. How did it happen that humans developed the ability to be self-aware and to be able to manipulate our environment unlike any other known life form?

I suspect that question won't be answered until we find sentient life someplace else.

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treestar

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Sat Jun-09-07 12:07 PM
Response to Reply #22

27. That's true

We don't even know that we will ever find out. Many may have lived and died without ever knowing.

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A HERETIC I AM

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Sat Jun-09-07 11:56 AM
Response to Reply #20

23. Why is it a mystery why we are here? From a purely biological standpoint

we are here to reproduce. Thats it. The point of existence is survival.

Questions that range further than this seem to me to venture into the realm of philosophy which, as far as we know, humans are the only practitioners of. (It is possible that whales dolphins and the higher apes contemplate their existence but as far as I know, there is no evidence)

When i ponder why humans are so concerned about life after death and purpose of life, i think of early man and how they reacted to the death of a loved one. To hold in your arms someone you care about who was, only seconds before, full of life, now still - to see literally the life drain from their eyes, must have left the living with unanswerable questions that tend to gnaw at the curious nature of our brains. It is my opinion that this along with general observation of the cosmos above, initially led to the genesis of the various religions. (There are few religions, the 3 faiths of the god of Abraham in particular, that do not have an extraordinary amount of celestial symbolism interwoven in their dogma)

In short, we are here to keep the species alive and continuing. Pondering existence any further than that has in large part become the realm of religion.

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BoneDaddy

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Sat Jun-09-07 10:01 PM
Response to Reply #23

42. What a boring

life then.

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SidDithers

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Sat Jun-09-07 10:34 PM
Response to Reply #42

50. So? Who said life had to have meaning?..nt

Sid

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Beelzebud

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Sun Jun-10-07 10:49 AM
Response to Reply #50

53. The same people that need an invisible father figure that lives in the sky.

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alarimer

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Sat Jun-09-07 12:04 PM
Response to Reply #20

26. there is only a "mystery" because people feel superior to other life forms

so there must be a "reason" for our existence. There is no reason or mystery. The path of evolution led us here but it was not inevitable. Instead a lot of other, random events had to occur for us to exist in the first place. Life has no "meaning". It just is.

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BoneDaddy

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Sat Jun-09-07 10:02 PM
Response to Reply #26

43. Or if the meaning

is that we, as humans, have the capacity for more awareness of this unfolding universe. who knows.

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alarimer

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Sat Jun-09-07 12:02 PM
Response to Reply #17

24. The onus is on you to prove there IS a god or gods

not on the atheist to prove there isn't one. You can't prove a negative anyway. There is no evidence of any god existing anywhere.

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slowry

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Sat Jun-09-07 12:25 PM
Response to Reply #17

28. .

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Warren DeMontague

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Sat Jun-09-07 01:38 PM
Response to Reply #17

34. You can't prove you DON'T have a 500 foot tall invisible, odorless, colorless orangutan

living on the roof of your house.

Yet you CAN say, with some degree of certainty, based on the utter and complete lack of evidence backing up the proposition, that you're pretty sure there isn't one.

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muriel_volestrangler

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Sat Jun-09-07 04:12 PM
Response to Reply #17

37. Why is a deist "truly honest"?

They believe, without evidence, that a supreme being created the universe. Why is that more 'honest' than an atheist who believes there was no entity which created the universe.

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BoneDaddy

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Sat Jun-09-07 10:26 PM
Response to Reply #17

48. I have always said

Edited on Sat Jun-09-07 10:26 PM by BoneDaddy

that the agnostic is the only real position. We do not know The religious fundamentalist and the atheist both pretend to know the secrets of the universe... both are ignorant.

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MindPilot

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Sun Jun-10-07 09:20 AM
Response to Reply #48

51. Then that makes you an agnostic fundamentalist doesn't it?

And it also depends on how one chooses to define agnosticism. The "old school" definition is someone who does not doubt the existence of god(s) but believes that an omniscient and omnipotent being is simply beyond human comprehension.

The common use of agnostic today is nothing more of Pascal's Wager kind of definition. It's saying "until I know more, I'm not going to take a stand either way." Which is fine, but it's also redundant and perhaps a bit wishy-washy.

It is redundant because that also describes the position of any Atheist who would of course have to change their opinion if the facts change. If god were to show himself tomorrow--and I don't mean in an oil stain under an '85 Ford, I mean a full on bible-quality-sky-opening-up-fire-and-brimstone-dead-rising-from-their-graves appearance--most Atheists would be going "Holy fuck, man was I wrong!"

But god has been unable to prove his existence despite have several thousand years of human history to do so; the lack of evidence is weighing against it.

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BoneDaddy

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Mon Jun-11-07 06:40 AM
Response to Reply #51

56. More of

Zen idea of "not knowing".

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toddaa

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Mon Jun-11-07 07:30 AM
Response to Reply #48

57. Name three atheists who claim to know the secrets of the universe

Be specific and give evidence to back up your claim.

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Canuckistanian

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Sat Jun-09-07 11:16 AM
Response to Reply #12

21. 'Scuse me?

As an atheist, I consider my views FAR from "ignorant".

I believe in REASON and SCIENCE.

If someone makes a broad statement like "God created man", I'd like to see even the SLIGHTEST physical evidence of this "being" called God and how, exactly he managed this feat. So far, the evidence is not looking good for the "God" version.

Until that time, I'm not taking anyone's word, not matter how much of a "tradition" it is.

Show me the proof. Or I'm not even buying into the basics of religion.

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Warren DeMontague

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Sat Jun-09-07 01:30 PM
Response to Reply #12

32. You say that with a high degree of certainty.

Frankly, I think that's a bogus equivalence.

First off, define "hard core" atheist: Someone who says they don't believe in "God" (or "Gods") out LOUD?

I'd suspect you're a "hard core" atheist when it comes to, for instance, Zeus.

I can't speak for any atheists beyond the one I see in my mirror every morning, but my atheism isn't based on hard-or-soft-core anything. It's based on the fact that I don't believe in anything- Unicorns, the Wizard of Oz, Gnomes that fix shoes while the cobbler is asleep, or "God"- without evidence to back it up.

And a man in a big hat saying "because I say so" in latin does NOT constitute "evidence".

If that makes me a "hard core atheist", so be it. Proud to wear the label.

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Colobo

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Sat Jun-09-07 12:03 PM
Response to Original message

25. Billo is so pathetic.

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chaska

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Sat Jun-09-07 01:10 PM
Response to Original message

30. When man embraced the concept of one god, there began the hierarchy...

that lead to the fascism we live under today.

I don't believe in gods, but there's something kind of nice about Animist beliefs, that god is in everything and not some guy in the sky.

call me a spiritual atheist, I guess.

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Warren DeMontague

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Sat Jun-09-07 01:33 PM
Response to Original message

33. Ooh. I "stopped him in the fourth round with this right hook"

Edited on Sat Jun-09-07 01:34 PM by impeachdubya

"(the Earth) had to come from somewhere." Shit! Damn! I never thought of that! Quick, retract everything I've ever said! Wow- he's right! Obviously, the only way anything can exist in nature is if a giant, invisible, sex-obsessed white man PUT it there! The God of the Bible MUST exist!

Yeah, sure, Billo. How about this right hook, logic-man: If everything "had to come from somewhere", where did "God" come from?

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teamster633

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Sun Jun-10-07 11:04 AM
Response to Reply #33

54. That, of course, is one of Dawkins' key arguments...

...in The God Delusion: you can't explain "irreducible complexity" by introducing an entity which by necessity would have to be infinitely more complex.

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Left Is Write

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Sat Jun-09-07 10:04 PM
Response to Original message

44. The secular press?

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mykpart

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Sat Jun-09-07 10:14 PM
Response to Original message

45. If Bill O'Reilly, who calls himself a Catholic,

is not positive that Jesus is God, then he is committing a grave sin of sacrilege every time he receives Communion. I call upon his local Bishop to advise the priests to refuse him communion.

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