CONYERS: "Let Me Be Clear: This Is NOT A Request-It Is A Demand"

"Let me be clear: this subpoena is not a request, it is a demand on behalf of the American people for the White House...to help us answer the questions that remain," said Rep. John Conyers (D-MI). "The breadcrumbs in this investigation have always led to 1600 Pennsylvania. This investigation will not end until the White House complies with the demands of this subpoena in a timely and reasonable manner so that we may get to the bottom of this."

Senator Patrick Leahy (D-VT) also accused the White House of seeking confrontation.

"By refusing to cooperate with congressional committees, the White House continues its pattern of confrontation over cooperation, and those who suffer most in this case are the public and the hard-working people at the Department of Justice," said Leahy, Chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee. "The White House cannot have it both ways -- it cannot stonewall congressional investigations by refusing to provide documents and witnesses, while claiming nothing improper occurred....Some at the White House may hope to thwart our constitutional oversight efforts by locking the doors and closing the curtains, but we will keep asking until we get to the truth

more at:
http://rawstory.com/news/2007/First_issuing_of_Attorneygate_subpoenas_to_0613.html

Thanks for the thread kpete.

Go guys!

Thank you Mr. Conyers.

Maybe we would actually get somewhere if they were.

Conyers is a real progressive, a true Liberal, a good man.

He's in the minority.

Conyers got "fire-breathing pissed"...plus after hearing about "vulture funds" and it's ties to RNC donors and it might lead to Chimpie himself..he's plenty pissed right now!...Would be nice if Conyers actually just punches Chimpie's lights out...ah! wishful thinking...

Is there any?

And that's what worries me.

I believe it would go to the D.C. Circuit first and then the BFEE would appeal it to the SCOTUS.

If it reaches the SCOTUS the decider will be able to ket off scott friggin free.

At least that's how I understand it. And I think that's why Conyers, Waxman, and Leahy have been more theatrical in announcing subpoenas up to this point instead of actually serving them. They all hope the publicity and Monkey Boy's abysmal polling will force his gang to comply without an actual Constitutional confrontation. Court-wise, Bush is in a much better position than Nixon was.

If he had any loyalty to the Republican party, that might work but I don't think he does, I think his loyalty is entirely to his cronies.

when the WH acts above the law and the law protects them, or when the constitution represents all the people, or at least we were led to believe.

Fascism.

at SCOTUS corral. This Supreme Court may be more favorable to Bush than the Supreme Court of Nixon, but the charges against Bushco are much more severe and overwhelming.

anyone who wants to scrutinize it and make it fair, basically has to keep their fingers crossed (because that's all there is?)

Conyers, Schumer and Leahy would need to have their case rock solid. In addition to being rock solid the public needs to be aware of the seriousness of the problem so much that the courts would not risk the level of public outcry.

All that is needed is 5 votes. That is possible even with the 2 new judges. I don't believe the 2 newer judges are as crooked as Scalito, Rehnquist or Thomas.

Alito and Roberts got put there in the first place. And this U.S. Attorney case is all about stealing future elections, so that even more justices on all federal and state courts will be crooked.

This is about nothing less than a take-over of the United States of America.

very sobering !

Wouldn't want to waste all that powder blocking authoritarian Supreme Court appointees.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=1103139&mesg_id=1104798

It could also lead to a real investigation of Roberts and Alito that didn't take place in their confirmation hearings. These clowns support martial law, not the Constitution.

BTW, does anyone on DU have that pic of the SCOTUS in clown suits from after the 2000 'selection' ?

haven't seen one yet. Showdown at the OK Corral?

After being passed over for chief justice scalia may have some hard feelings that he's kept hidden for just the right moment, that moment maybe approaching. He may just throw a big fucking monkey wrench into the gears, after all he is Sicilian and they like their revenge served cold.

on the Court...

Do the other five members have any lingering reverence for the Rule of Law?

arm twisting is in order.

Fabulous!

I REFUSE to be called a waterfowl!!! :)

Michigan native here too... Pontiac/Waterford specifically.

And I might actually see him at an event downriver tomorrow night. If I do, I'll thank him in person for issuing the subpoena.

Heck, MichLib too.

One of his staff members was there and she thought he might show, but said his plane landed at about 8:15 and he was probably tired and went home. I asked her to thank him for me.

they will get the info they seek...THE ENTIRE ADMINISTRATION WOULD HAVE TO GO TO PRISON!

or go before the House and say they can't recall in response to questions?

Of course the whole issue revolves around submitted documents so they will probably claim executive privledge, it will go to the Supreme Court, who probably will rule in favor of bushco

We are sooooo screwed, and the only chance is taking back all three branches of government

I strongly suspect the SC will rule in favor of the Law. Bushco does not have these folk in their pocket, as most seem to think they do.

and I hope and pray he will make the right choice.

A very very good read!

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/6/13/17384/6651

here as to what Congress can do.

They have the Right and Obligation under the Constitution to investigate all matters concerning the government. The reason the House, then Senate are set up, is to ensure the House has very serious power in investigations and other matters. The Executive Branch was deliberately set up as 2nd because of fears it could become too powerful, however, it will take courage and fortitude to push this administration into complying, but it can be done. The previous Congress, under R rule made this administration the powerhouse it is. Therefore, for te House to demand these people to reply and submit to a subpoena is a little more than just a shoe-in. It can be done, and it will go to the USSC, but it is imperative that those who argue before the High Court, understand and pursue the the whole R-wing "rule of law" the R's speak so highly of. Pressure can be applied to the USSC, and all of the Judges are exposed to impeachment and trial by the House. Lifetime appointment is only good as long as the House does not impose impeachment proceedings against the Justices...Once before, IIRC, a Supreme was brought up on charges, but it all blew over. Other Judges have been removed from lower courts by impeachment and trial, so it can be done.

Question is, since it is a heavy gamble, would one want to toss in their bets on this?

rasputin1952 - the rule of law is not a right wing thing that I'm aware of. It's a Constitution thing. We are a nation of laws, (which includes our rights as laid out in the constitution) as opposed to ...say... religious rules that must be obeyed.

Are you maybe thinking of the right-wingish phrase "law and order" ???

glc

RWer's speak of rule of law when discussing just about anything that has do with anything but themselves.

For instance, there was a huge stink over Clinton and the "rule of law", during his impeachment, etc; also, there is a huge RW outcry of rule of law over William Jefferson...but when it comes to Scooter Libby, suddenly they talk of pardons, and how the law was used to "abuse" him. IMO, Libby essentially committed an act of treason,and was let off easy for whatg he did. It is simply a case as to how the RW uses it's simplistic view of Rule of Law.

As for "law and order", that, once again only applies to those whom they wish it to apply to. They use that phrase to scare people, nothing more. They only have fear to sell, nothing else. If they truly believed in "law and order", bush would not be president, and would actually be sitting in a prison cell.

:)

Ras

Take it back Ras! Take back the meaning of the Rule of Law. Don't let them own it. They're perverse freaks who've twisted its meaning beyond belief.

My people, the democrats, are fighting for the real Rule of Law, and we're on the high ground. :-)

I understand what you're saying re Clinton's impeachment, poor, long sufferin' and horribly persecuted Scootie, and all the rest. But that's all they've got. Their entire arsenal is to neglect to apply the same standards to themselves as they do to everyone who isn't them. Focus on that and keep getting their outrageousness into the public record.

You know that the Rule of Law means that there is no king here. The law -- the Constitution -- is the ruler and not even * is above the law.

* ran as a law and order candidate when he first started out in Texas too, mainly because he's always "known" that the law doesn't apply to him. I think he has a surprise coming down the road a bit though. Nixon thought that he was all set too.

:toast: to Waxman, to Conyers, to Leahy, to everyone following the breadcrumbs... :breadcrumbs the size of bass drums icon goes right here with big honkin' spangles on it:

glc

in the least that the whole Rule of Law aspect has fallen into the shredder. And I certainly agree that we need to bring the true meanings of phrases, and what those items behind those phrases, back into the realm of reality.

Speaking of Law, Phelps' daughter went to the "dreaded" and much maligned by the RW, ACLU for help in her lag Desecration case....( I dokn't think anyone of the radical side has a sense of irony). I might add, Limbaugh, who spent years making money on trying to destroy the ACLU, also used it to protect himself from prosecution during his oxycontin investigation. The ACLU ensured the case was essentially closed by keeping Limbaugh's medical records from scrutiny under numerous privacy arguments.

The RWer's believe in tough laws and hellacious punishments for infractions, but runnlike scared kids meeting a spook when they have to face any form of responsibility for their own actions...x(

Few people realize that when bush is out of the WH, he is open to all charges that can be brought before a judge by a prosecutor. Some people believe that he has a "Get out of Jail Free" card because he will be an ex-president...all he becomes is another citizen, and is open to a host of charges that juries can/will determine his fate...

if both the Executive Bramch and the Supreme Court clearly refuse to follow the rule of law, then it should be the duty of the American people to rise up and force Congress to start immpeachment proceedings against Supreme Court justices and the Administration. Otherwise, we have truly lost our democracy.

Go get em boys! The White House is so stinking dirty on so much
that impeachment has to be on the table.

so far. I'm personally TIRED of talk. Tired of saber rattling. Let's shake it up, folks, or go the hell home. We've got a country to save, and come to think of it a whole planet as well. Time's awastin'.

Aren't they just going to spit out the line that the American people don't want to go through an embarassing political circus like they did with Clinton?

Conyers is one of the only reasons I have any faith this country isn't doomed. I'm sure Conyers gives a rat's arse about them. Some people actually lived the sixties. And the DLC would have stopped civil rights to win an election if they could.

Fuck the DLC. My thoughts are with real Democrats like John Conyers!

held hearing. The DNC issued a whitewash report about the election but Conyers and the House Judiciary Dem Staff issued a real report "Preserving Democracy: What Went Wrong in Ohio" (google it if you have never read it) The DNC report ignored the activists on the ground going into the BOEs and taking affidavits but Conyers not only listened but has compiled the evidence.

He is not afraid to go against the grain of the party elite and seek the truth. Conyers is a man of the people NOT the corporate elite!

And will lose everything if they continue to stall on these constitutional issues. They will permit Congress to do its ordained job, or go down memory hole with the whole GOP.

Not a bad idea!

:toast:

MKJ

"It's not fair, Mom."

Or, in this case, "It's not fair, Karl."

Let them see what the law looks like when it is enforced!!

:eyes:

But they all pout real good.

Not much.

The administration has no regard for what Congress wants, only what they perceive as their 'rights'.

What has happened since then? Did she appear before the committee who subpoenaed her?

I think not.

So, what are these good for? Absolutely nothing. (as the song goes)

Talks, threats of issuing subpoenas, then issuing subpoenas, then... waiting... waiting... for nothing.

Then talks, words, threats of issuing other subpoenas, then... still nothing? :grr:

What good is this for if Congress approval sinks deeper, and deeper, poll after poll? :argh:

Conyers and Leahy make citizen arrests

I always thought failure to show for a subpoena was contempt and you went to jail???

They are in Contempt

ARREST THEM

Arresting them is off the table.
Hence, more drops in the polls.
What kind of strategy is that?

power of Congress

Congress is a freakin joke and Bush Gonzales and the bunch are just laughing at them

Presidential Directive 51 will be soon acted and Congress did their job

gave America to Bush

but it WILL FAIL and Horribly

the tide is turning and I hear the swell of anger and the people trust them no more

their control over us is over

they play at government not knowing what it is

Sometimes that hope of seeing the war criminals occupying the White House will FAIL seems like the only good visualization of things to come we've got left.

Thanks!

My pet goat... Iraq war ...its failing ... the propoganda machine its failing... the Diebold machines failed... the firings of attorneys failed ....Abu Ghahib failed... Outing Plame failed... I don't think these guys do anything right

They failed in college military and life all together

And Capitalism is in its last gasp

Americans healthcare system is failing and he failed destroying social security...

He has failed and will fail

These are NOT LEADERS these are crooks

Look at the FDA FCC FBI CIA PENTAGON etc.. etc... they are shells barely operational inept and absolutely useless

Time is on our side not theirs

Congress had subpoened somebody who refused to appear. The AG - a brother or relative of the person subpoened - refused to enforce the subpoena, so the House had the person arrested, and it was upheld by the SCotUS.

traditionally, people respected the law and so there is not much previous experience with having to force them to comply with it.

It's not just Bush - nowadays even ordinary people will act as if a subpoena is just an invitation - they'll be like "I have a hair appointment that day" and I'm like: read the subpoena. Basically obey it or go to jail. Or you subpoena a doctor or a business and they just ignore it, figuring that's the way to make it go away.

So maybe that is something trickling down from the top, too. People see Bushco ignoring such things and think they can, too.

Thanks John Conyers!

:kick:

glc

in prosecuting anyone connected to Bush as long as he can pardon. It might be best to drag things out until he's gone and then go after every scumbag, fascist war profiteer hiding under the rocks. Bush may issue preemptive blanket pardons (it's a family tradition) for every criminal associated with his Administration, but Congress could pass legislation to make his cover-ups null and void. Congress may also institute impeachment proceedings against some Supreme Court justices who have violated the public trust.
The other alternative is millions of peasants with pitch forks and torches descending on Washington to exact primitive summary justice.

Risking humiliation when BushCo ignore him, and practically begging for * to puff out his chest.

But it's great that he's making his position clear. The MSM will find it a bit tougher to spin the inevitable response.

Its like a parent telling a child - I'm gonna punish you- and then never does

John Conyers is a hero. Now we only need to get the media to pay closer attentiont to this.

but that is all it is, a show. My only hope is that the Dems will take the WH, and 60% of congress in 08....

Demand.. request.. whatever.
It doesn't matter.

The WH won't comply.

It's a dictatorship outside the rule of law.

:kick:

Mr. Conyers,

Thank you for finally locating the balls that are needed to bring these guys to the floor and answer some fucking questions! What good is the S-word if no one can find a slot in their calendar to stop by?

Those committees have been doing the subpoena waltz for some time now, but somehow the dance never seems to go anywhere.

I'll leave it up to Conyers to follow through, but my money says he won't. (I sincerely hope he proves me wrong, but I'm betting he doesn't.)

I have been converted into an absolute cynic when it comes to this subject.

This latest incarnation of a "do nothing" Congress hasn't inspired any confidence in me. As a matter of fact, all they've shown me is that they'll bend over for Bush and rubber stamp his desires just like the previous one did.

Enough words, Dems. Time to back up what you say.

:toast:

we can hope that the SC ... IS actually full of right-wing nut-job funda-mentalists...

they might actually see this abhorant situation for what it is and try to clean up


I KNOW... but i'm a glass is half full thinker

You've asked enough and each time they told you to go fuck yourself.

Its time to stop asking and time to start acting.

the Democratic congress can do to them...the republican owned corporate MSM is not reporting it by design so the people don't know about any of this and don't give a fuck anyway.

Bush/Cheney/Rove know they can just cruise until they are out of office and NOT give up a damn thing...they react like typical liars and criminals...fuck you, what can you do about it...

Bush/Cheney/Rove also know very well it would be more damaging to them to comply with congress than to just say fuck you to congress, it gives the republicans big laughs and great kicks to say fuck you to the democrats....Bush is at 29% he doesn't give a fuck about the polls he's getting his way on everything, corporate backers are making billions on the US occupation. War for profit!

There's NOTHING the Democrat's can do but use tough words and you know it!!

So these filthy republicans and this administration will continue to do as they please and just cruise...the only thing in our Constitution to stop these criminals is impeachment...But the Dems have made it clear that's never going to happen.

So nothing will ever change...count on another election being stolen in 2008!!!
(They still have all the electronic machines in place, the Pentagon controlling overseas voting even among private citizens, voter ID's and worst of all is their use of voting purge to get rid of likely Dem voters, very easily done.
http://www.salon.com/opinion/feature/2007/05/10/voting_rights/

That's why ALL the republican nominees for president are running on the extreme right, to get that same extreme neocon republican base to nominate them. Because they know the winner/nominee will have the 2008 elections stolen for them......Keeping corporate fascism alive and well. All they have to do is hold on to and steal the executive branch (they already have the Supreme Court for decades to come).
http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0703/S00474.htm

http://www.tcf.org/list.asp?type=NC&pubid=1530

Don't talk the talk, if you won't walk the walk.

How many have been subpoenaed and how many have actually testified?

you work for how badly you want to do your jobs. Don't take your big recess for the 4th of July. Just take the same three day holiday everyone else gets and then get back to work and fix this debacle, GOD D'IT! Can you even consider it, dear sirs and madams?

Impeachment is lurking right under the table, but hey, keep it QT and let them bring up the subject if they want :rofl: