Ever talk to someone you really like and then lose all respect for them because of their politics?

My girlfriend of 6 years has great parents. They're fun to be around, the family is close, we always go over there for family occasions and they treat me like I belong.

The only problem is they are Republicans. No, not moderates... George W. Bush loving, poisoned view of the world, Christofacists.

On everything else in the world they are terrific people but when the talk turns to politics I get this sickening feeling and I can't help myself but be both shocked by what they say and troubled by how wrong they are. I feel like everytime we really get deep into politics I lose that much more respect for them.

And politics is unavoidable. They enjoy talking or debating it with me so they purposely begin discussing it. Probably because I try to come off as the most calm even handed liberal ever and use subtle jabs to crush their points rather than allowing myself to erupt like a volcano over the absurdity of their views or the recklessness of the policies they endorse.

The most recent incident was a couple weeks back when I invited them over to dinner. Beforehand we were talking and I let them control the TV which they of course turned right onto FAUX. I'm certain that was the first time that was on my television for more than the Stephen Colbert interview on O'Reilly.

Somehow we got spun onto Gay Marriage. My girlfriend's uncle (brother of her Mom) is openly gay and has been in a longterm relationship. I asked them if they would deny marriage and happiness to her brother to which they responded yes and that gay marriage is wrong and sinful. I brought up the "what if he was in a car accident and on life support in the hospital and didn't have a will made up. Should his partner be denied a hospital visit?" They again replied yes.

I responded with my opinion that marriage is a church ceremony and if certain churches choose not to recognize different types of marriage so beit, but what the state should recognize on that piece of paper should be a Civil Union because anything that is state or government authorized deserves to be covered by the equal protection clause of the Constitution.

They of course objected to the idea that their marriage could in anyway be called what the gays want.

Then in the middle of the topic of Abortion I threw this at them:

"Why do you vote for Republicans on Abortion? They had 6 years of total dicatorship control and never offered a single bill to outright ban it. They use it to sucker people like you in to vote for them. They use YOU. And while they are spending zero time on legislation on this, they are robbing you blind by instituting their "rich get richer" policies that actually do affect you. Democrats don't want abortion either, we just want it to be the mother's choice."

Then her Dad made a statement that was the easiest floater pitch ever.

"Well if Democrats had let us have our judges."

To which I responded, "Wait, I thought your side HATES activist judges? Because when it comes to gay marriage they're activists, but here you're saying they should be used to change laws that elected officials will not pass to change."

I said all this calmly and dinner was done cooking right at this point.

As I was finishing up the serving of the food I leaned over to my girlfriend and hugged her whispering my disgust over the gay marriage thing and then the table conversation centered on the food.

I know a lot of you have similar people in your lives that you think are great people, minus their politics.

I just felt like sharing that since I have been thinking a lot about it lately and it still bugs me even 13 days later.

Rp

Whenever you talk about problems in America, replace "Republican" with "rich cocksuckers" or "monied interests" or whatever other term you desire. This generally avoids natural defenses that are encountered whenever you broach the issue of politics. If you describe the situation by removing loaded labels and replace them with neutral labels, you are more likely to get through to your audience than if you didn't.

If you went to the countryside and talked to an audience about how they're being screwed over by Republicans, you'll likely not get near the kind of attention that you would if you removed that label and replaced it with bankers, industrialists, and elites instead.

the parents views?

I think it was interesting to see her parents' reaction when the two of us went to Iowa to work for John Kerry or when we protested Bush when he visited Appleton.

Rp

of their conservative views. I really try not to, but the way a person stands on certain issues means something to me. Last week I posted about how a girl I was interested in apparently supports the war, and it really bothered me to learn about it. I've had a few other friendships be slightly damaged from politics too.

I have had republican friends all my life. We found other things in common.

But these days, it does more that slightly damage some friendships. I outright avoid those very conservative people, even if they have been friends in the past. If they needed something, I would recognize their humanity and be there for them. But would they do the same for me? Once again I say, thanks, Newt.

Still, I can't help but be reminded of that song in West Side Story, where the members of the two rival gangs each sing, "Well, they began it..."

They began it. And our side is going to have to use its power judiciously in order to stop it. Sometimes numbers and strength do matter. Maybe then I can regain some of my friendships. You too.

I've said before one of the disadvantages of being politically aware and having strong opinions is that it can be very difficult to maintain friendships with people who are not. Fortunately for me, I'm still young, and I like to think that maybe some of these people can change their views over time.

but being the misanthropist that I am, I have difficulty getting past the "someone you really like" part of it.

I don't care how "nice" they appear to be,I think that anyone who can vote for the repuke policies are not playing with a full deck.Also,anyone who thinks moron bu$h is a "great president" and likes and supports him are a total disgrace and should be ashamed of themselves.

To me,when a person supports bu$h and his cronies shows they have no respect for themselves or our country.Bu$h is an idiot and the whole world knows it.

We don't have any like that in our family...a few mild ones, but they're rare and easily swayed with cogent argument. I've worked with ones like that, though.

I have to say, you handle yourself well. Not knowing the players at all, though, I have to wonder if the parents, seeing as they are supposedly so nice and wonderful, are covertly getting their jollies by engaging you in political debate, perhaps hoping that you'll go off on them, and give them an excuse to find you wanting for their daughter.

If you think that might be the case, you can cut them off at the pass by declaring a rule at the next dinner, that there is to be NO discussion of politics, religion or orienttion issues. Your goal, of course, is to ensure that NO ONE at your table feels uncomfortable. Make sure your gf knows the rule and backs you up. That will stifle them, if they do have a motivation to try to push your buttons. Every time they bring it up, refuse to answer (it's tough to do, but stand fast!), and reiterate your rule!

And grab that remote and block FAUX...that parental chip is good for something!

that otherwise intelligent and caring people would swallow a bunch of official bullshit because they'd never bothered to think things through for themselves.

They become people I am very guarded around.

It isn't the political views that bother me, it's the reasoning, or lack of, that is the sticker. And that is why I, like you, feel uneasy about situations you describe- they may be nice, but there is a faulty thinking process going on, and they refuse to take a look at why they believe the way they do.

But he was so nice for an ax killer

There is something deeply wrong with a person who still supports Bush--if they watch the news, anyway. If they don't watch the news and just hear in church that Bush is still king of the world, I can't blame them for simply being unaware. But if they see what's going on in the world and know about his callous disregard for human life and deliberate ignorance about facts that displease him, there is just something not quite right with them.

Someone who likes Bush may still be charming, pleasant, etc, but if they think that all the evil he has done is somehow okay, that says something about them that disturbs me.

On account of their head being up their butt.

be honest. Tell them it really upsets you. Don't subject yourself to it over and over again. You need your strength. We have to win in '08.

In a snide way you may be able to get in that it makes you think differently about them. You'd be on thin ice, but you can try.

;)

I don't disengage from the discussion because I honestly think that I might be the only source of truth they hear. Even if they dislike it it's better that they hear it rather than just streaming FOX to their brain and being 100% ignorant of other views.

Does it change their opinions? No. I think they know I beat them point for point on issues but they seem to enjoy the hunt, so to speak.

I also don't want to let their ridiculous assertions of what they believe to be fact remain unchallenged. I'd rather they know that their view isn't unanimously and universally accepted as fact. If we shy away from the discussion these people tend to believe they won it and then brag as such (her parents are not loud bragging people but you get the point of my generalization there).

It bothers me to hear they feel that way and to know I can never change their views. But it doesn't bother me to engage because regardless of how similar it is to talking to a brick wall, I feel that at least by doing this they hear what their one source of news will never tell them. The REAL other side of the issues.

Rp

I let them know when I think they are being reprehensible. You are in a sticky place being that they are your girlfriend's parents, not your friends. I think that we allow these people to play the moral issue but don't call them on their immorality because we are too polite.

Let them know that what they say makes you think less of them, tactfully. It is a mentality that you are trying to change and that is a way of thinking. Not necessary issue orientated if you know what I mean.

For instance, a right wing 'friend' of mine said to me right after Katrina that the people of NO were not being very grateful. I just about flipped my lid and told her that that was the most disgusting and unChristian thing I had ever heard. It shut her up but I think it shocked her because me, the liberal, was questioning her morality.

Another friend insists that I worry too much and wants to talk to me about all the shit she bought at target. She's got the fish on her car, goes to bible study, the whole bit. I finally said to her I don't want to hear about what you bought. Do you have any feelings of obligation to pay attention for the sake of your kids? You have a flag on your car but you don't care enough to pay attention. Great. (what I didn't tell her was that I had to talk to her 16 year old son because he has been throwing the N word around)

This same woman was going to drug test her kids randomly throughout high school. As you can imagine, I had to call her on that one, too.

I also love to point out that I am a liberal. If I have had a drink I usually follow that up with BOO! Do I scare you?

Then I say how insulted I am that people claim that I am not a moral person and I don't love my country because I am a liberal.

Our relationships are strained, no doubt, and again this is your girlfriend's parents so you are in a tough spot.

Don't forget that they are kind of toying with you. They aren't blind or deaf, they choose not to read and listen. Don't put them before yourself and your sanity. I speak from experience and angst.

We will all keep fighting the good fight but we seriously need to take care of ourselves and not let these people get the best of us. :)

then I excuse myself and leave.

I'm tired of putting up with rude behavior from people who are insulting me. When I was a young woman I had to listen to all kinds of "women are stupid" jokes and stories. When I was in management I had to listen to all kinds of "women in management" jokes and stories. As a Catholic, I've had to listen to "anti-Catholic" jokes and stories. Now I'm expected to put up with anti-Democratic Party jokes and stories.

I'm tired of it. Their behavior doesn't change until I tell them to "stop it".

I just say "That's offensive. Let's not talk about it." And I repeat it, and repeat it, and repeat it. If they won't stop, then they're deliberately and knowingly insulting me so I get up, excuse myself and leave. When asked about it later, I just say "I find that kind of conversation offensive. I don't care to discuss it." And repeat it, and repeat it, etc.

I FIND IT OFFENSIVE! And I'm tired of putting up with it. It's not funny. It's not intelligent. There's no attempt at learning anything. It's just prejudice, bigotry, and greed.

And until we tell them to stop it, they keep getting away with it.

when talking to a kool-aid drinking Repug. I'm sorry, their policies and attitudes go against every value I hold dear. I can dismantle their specious arguments and propaganda with facts, they don't care. They'll stick to their RW talking points, like the intellectual zombies they are.

I have no respect for those who aren't aware of the damage these repug neo-cons have done to this country. I have disdain for those that support that damage.

And I try to just avoid discussions and even feign lack of interest in politics ( um try obsessed). It is so sad, especially my mother. She calls CNN the Communist News Network, and won't watch Outfoxed even when I beg. How do you deal with a mindset that when asked, "But what if you could watch something that would prove to you that you are being lied to and manipulated?" refuses to watch.

She is otherwise intelligent but completely ignorant of what has really been going on. I think that both of them or anyone attracted to that mindset really come from a base of fear. I think that the reality peddled on Fox News is comforting and concrete. The ambiguity and lack of integrity of officials is fundamentally frightening and the absolutes are comforting.

But of course these are people in my family and I can't avoid it. I realized that I should focus on the love and that my place in life is not to teach them. I choose peace. However, when I do encounter anyone of this rigid mindset I do avoid them. It totally affects my opinion of someone and would limit how close I could get to them.

For instance, the indifference to the suffering of those on the Gulf COast, or citizens of Iraq. I encounter no empathy towards others. It's all us vs. them. That's a moral choice not political, and enough to really make me loathe someone.

I am amazed at how well you dealt with your girlfriend's parents. I get way too huffy and emotional. It always seems a waste of time since if they hear something new that they don't like they just say it's not true. How do you deal with that? I can't walk around with links and Google.

And believe me I know. Her parents sound just like mine. My mom loves to spout her opinions at every possible opportunity, and her opinions are fed to her by Faux. It has gotten in the way of our relationship, I find I don't want to spend time with them because things always devolve into her saying rude things about "that evil one I can't even say his name" (her words) meaning Bill Clinton and a circle jerk about how

1. lazy Katrina victims are, and how they deserved what they got
2. wonderful GWB is and his beautiful wife (gag) This topic usually comes with some disparaging remarks about the BITCH (Hillary)
3. wonderful homeschooling is, so parents can keep their kids safe from evil atheists and instill good Christian values in them
4. much they miss Ronald Reagan

Christmas was really special.. when the war in Iraq came up, I said halfway under my breath that it was just like Vietnam. My mom literally dropped what she was holding and gasped my name, then said "but Vietnam never attacked us!". How do you even get through to someone that thick? When I asked "And when did Iraq attack us, mom?" she nervously shrugged and made moaning sounds and told me to basically shut up, she didn't want to discuss it with me since I didn't know what I was talking about.

I have to try really hard to keep from throwing up, to be honest. Sometimes I think I had to have been adopted, there is no way I came from this woman.

My husband refuses to get into it with them, and when they start in on me, he usually leaves the room. I wish sometimes that he would stick up for me and tell them how he really feels (he feels just like me... I couldn't be with someone who was a Christofascist! Maybe that is how I became who I am. They taught me how NOT to be. Who knows.

Good on you for trying. I really do know how hard it is. I envy any of you who grew up with liberal or at least semi-sane parents.

It would have been far worse and damaging if they were repugs. We let it all hang out, God knows, but we weren't hypocrites about it.
Thanks for reminding me how lucky I was.

I just try to avoid political conversations with her because she's beyond hope.

I also wrote a letter to my father-in-law regarding Rush Limbaugh's recent 'halfrican' comment, since his grandkids (my children) are multiracial. I thought he was a big fan of Rush but he has reassured me that 1) he stopped listening to Rush years ago and 2) he thought the comment was deplorable and he would never harbor that kind of sentiment. All's well that ends well.

If they resort to using so called "Christian beliefs" to back up their bigotry try something like this:
Well, marriage is two things- civil, which is the legal end of a union, and religious or spiritual. thinking that something is wrong because it is against your religious beliefs is one thing, but your opinion does not affect the civil, or legal end of marriage. ( and here is the kill phrase that stops them in their tracks)- You may object to gay marriage because of your views, but what if other Christians formed a religion based on Jesus' teachings, primarily the Beatitudes and certainly "Do unto Others--" and "What you do the the least--" and accepted gays and gays marriages because they feel that Jesus told us plainly to do good to all, then what?

The last sentence is a call out- IOW they can't defend their bigotry without saying they don't believe in the teachings of Christ, but they will not dare say so. If they say "well, we can agree to disagree" then you can coem back with "well, I, for one, am a follower of Christ and His teachings."

a friend we've known for about 20 years. We knew he was a Republican but figured he'd be smart enough by now to have figured out the clown in the White House. Our topics usually never contain political discussions. While talking about lack of good viewing on TV our friend mentioned that the only good shows that he watched daily were O'Reilly and Hannity & Colmes. DH and I almost choked on our lunch. We were stunned and deeply saddened. Yes, it definitely affects how I regard someone.

whom I have nothing in common when it comes to politics, but I still value their friendship and their knowledge in other areas. One is my goto guy for local nature questions, another for tooling/machining/welding, yet another for legal issues, etc.

I believe that shouting at or shunning them will do nothing to change their views and will only serve to make them believe that I’m the unbalanced one.

Regards, Mugu

At family gatherings we avoid talking about religion or politics. I feel almost estranged from them at times. Sad but true.

They're still very con on many issues, but they vote Democratic. I loved my mom's epiphany, "* is not a Christian." "Christians don't do what he's doing".

I had a former boss who was also a friend who I thought very highly of. He was a very sweet, kind, caring man and ALWAYS willing to go to bat for one of his employees when he saw them being treated unjustly. He was also a former career military guy who had served for over 20 years.

I was in my early 20's when I worked for him and I wasn't really politically aware at that time (although I was a voter and considered myself a Dem). When he started talking about politics I was both surprised and dissapointed to discover he held some VERY far right wing views. Even though I wasn't that interested in politics at the time I was able to recognize right wing talking points when I heard them.

I did lose a little bit of respect for him because of some of his politics, but there were still many other qualities about the man that I admired. I just considered politics an area where we HAD TO "agree to disagree".

I live in Oklahoma so of course. In fact a friend of mine for 15 years blew up at me and we had a huge fight over the abortion thing, the gay thing, and George Bush in general. Now, when I see her, we say a polite..hello, how are you and go our seperate ways. Sad really.


I have a new line though to combat the gay is a sin thing. I say so is lying. Did God come to you in your dreams and tell you that one sin carries more weight than another? Sin is sin and we are all sinners. Also use the "if you think so little of them then you should treat them like kings because you will be judged by how you treat the least among you."

Freapers love those. HEE HEE

My spouse & I have best friends that couldn't be more opposite in political views. About once a month the men get into a heated debate. The women participate for the first 1/2 hour or so, then go off and do their own thing to let the men duke it out. At times, I thought the relationship would be ruined by the nastiness that came out, but we are still best friends. Nothing wrong with a good debate. It makes both sides more motivated toward their cause. Politics are fraction of the person. Personally, my brother shares my political beliefs 100%...but I really dislike him as a person. If he wasn't family, I would never socialize with him.

I've pointed it out to several people also.

It echoes the national politics. A bunch of incompetent fools who are throwing money around who think they are all powerful. They try everything they can to pass rules, etc. in order not to let people speak at the meetings. They also call meetings at the last minute and try to have them on the QT in order to not have people show up.

Ironically - the President of the board is a total ass who acts like a dictator and his name is George!!

I just got off the phone with him and he said "You're right - the politics here are just like national politics." I know it's too much to expect that he did a complete 180.

explaining how the Republicans, as a party, "use" issues like abortion to get the "footsoldier" votes from people like this. If you are able to express yourself with anything like the language you used, it is a VERY effective argument, particularly if you are able to remain cool and levelheaded as you appear to do.

Ultimately many more people will be reached with your type of approach than any other. It also helps that people like her parents can SEE, through exposure and knowing you, that you are a good person in general, treat their daughter well, AND have conviction in your beliefs, enough to both volunteer for a campaign and engage in these discussions. This counts for a lot.

It's very hard. I am from coastal, "blue" cities pretty much all my life and am a liberal who generally votes Democratic (never Republican). Now I live in a very red area of a very red state in the Bible Belt where the huge majority of people that I work with and encounter are people of the type you describe, aggressively partisan Republicans who are generally closed minded and only watch FOX news etc. I have to compartmentalize things, because there are many people who are outstanding professionals that I work with, excellent at their job and their dedication to it, but where I find their politics abhorrent. The professional respect is just separate.

A lot of DUers live in liberal enclaves like NYC or San Francisco. I love those areas and think that's great. I will say that it's a lot easier to be a liberal in Boston or L.A. than where I live now. I have nothing but respect for liberals in red, red areas who fight the good fight. You have to develop all kinds of personal skills and abilities and toughness to do this. I will admit that I do NOT fight the good fight most of the time, since my exposure to others is generally through work and my work has nothing to do with politics, and I socialize little with others outside my family. Most of the time (not all of the time) I avoid the subject of politics when dealing with people around here because the huge majority of the time my politics are different. If it comes up, I don't always avoid it or change the subject but sometimes will.

Longwinded, but I did want to say keep up the good work, I really appreciated this post and thread.

I don't spend time with people I feel that way about.

My mother was one of the kindest, most generous people I've ever known. Then in the late 80's she went through some really rough times -- some was simple misfortune, but she made some really bad decisions that contributed significantly to her hard times. It was during this time that she started listening to Limbaugh & within just a few years I saw such a change in her.

Since then, she's gotten so much worse. She has become a mean spirited, racist, bitter woman. Several times I have asked that we don't discuss politics, but she will not respect my request. She sends me the most hateful emails (always written by some anonymous person who is too cowardly to sign their hateful crap) about Katrina victims, Hispanics, Muslims, & of course, liberals. Like your girlfriend's parents, she cannot resist bringing up politics. She delights in pushing my buttons, so, I have as little to do with her as possible. My sister told me I should be easy on her because "when she's gone, you'll miss her." "I already miss her," I told her.

I've missed her for 18 years.

Good luck dealing with your girlfriend's parents. I wouldn't hang on too closely to the idea that exposure to your ideas & facts may open their eyes. I've found the backwash to be willfully ignorant & intellectually lazy.

for you, girl friend's parents and all. Same thing as inlaws, supposed to show respect if they love their kid.

For me, I have or should say had, a good, dear friend. A mentor really. He in some respects is one of the most interesting and evolved people I know or ever met. Somewhat of a mystic really.

Except.........for politics. More than just a dumb kool-aid drinking freep.
His favorite book on politics is The Prince by Machiavelli. Kinda sees politics from a sorta old testament thunder on the mountain school. Sheesh.

I couldn't be his friend and that's too bad.

I usually figure out where a person stands pretty quickly.

About the only thing anyone has successfully hidden from me is deeply buried racism.

7 out of 9 Supreme Court Justices were appointed by Republicans.

I have used the same argument.
They had the House, the Senate, and the pResidency. 7 out of 9 Republican Supreme Court Justices were appointed by Republican presidents.
And abortion is STILL legal.

it's just as likely they lose respect for you because of your politics.

To you, they're politically wacko. To them, you're the political wacko. You believe you have the right course charted, to them it's theirs.

You think you're right, and they think they are. * "hates" liberals as much as we "hate" him.
Respect for opinions - no matter the perceived extremities - cuts both ways. Politics is no different than all facets of society.
Work for change while maintaining respect.

...O...