Turkish immigrants at the root of ancient Italy - at least, of a big part of it.

"Howard Dean today: As a Democrat, I believe that we should welcome the stranger"
Which is a statement that has less to do with politics than with culture.
I read this in Madfloridian journal at http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=1119325&mesg_id=1119325

Then I found, in one of the Italian biggest papers, that it was finally evidenced that Italic Etruscan were Turkish immigrants…

Immigration is nothing new in our culture. But societies that become wealthy and powerful try to hide its origins creating myths to justify divine or supernatural origins. Or, worse, to forget.

But discoveries trace back real origins of peoples disregarding their attempts to make lose the track.
Prof. Alberto Piazza and others presented the results of their researches on DNA common features between Tuscany and Turkey at the European Human Genetics Conference 2007 in Nice, France.

Though not new, the genetic approach to the subject of the Etruscan origins seems to sustain Herodotus story, according to which the ancient population of Tuscany and central Italy came from Anatolia, Turkey, flying from starvation and searching for a better place to live.

The gene investigated in Murlo, Volterra and some other Tuscany villages shows many features in common with the same group in Turkey while being quite different from the groups observed in other neighboring Italian regions. The Murlo gene, in particular, was found only in Turkish people.

A non-autochthonous origin of one of the most important ancient italic populations and cultures is something refreshing in our dusty historical approach.
Rome was dominated by Etruscans for years. Its culture was permeated. Etruscans are at our national cultural root.

Between history and poetry, all in all it’s nothing new: immigration made big countries.
Etruscan came (historically, it seems) from Anatolians trying to save their lives and survive against famine. Rome is (poetically!) said to origin from Trojans flying from invasions and war.
Famine, war, invasions...sound familiar topics...

If politics was closer to science and humanistic, the discovery could contribute to new relationships between west and east. But it is not, unfortunately.

What's true, for Italians at least, is that we’ve got the East and its humanity swimming in our blood. We’re almost brothers.
Which leads me to Dean's statement, again. And the circle is closed!


Here’s the abstract link to Prof. Alberto Piazza contribution, for those who enjoy genetics:
http://www.abstractsonline.com/viewer/viewAbstractPrintFriendly.asp?CKey={7BC08BEC-3A9F-44ED-B455-710AE3BFB1AC}&SKey={82CC5754-2B89-44D0-BDE3-8AC035B384D1}&MKey={CFA3EC71-B100-4F89-928C-92A1239F5353}&AKey={384D2523-AA39-4B08-A120-38A9AB93ADA3}

Ciao!

The Turks entered Anatolia centuries later from Central Asia. During Etruscan times Anatolia was inhabited by a variety of peoples, including the Hittites, and later became largely Greek. As late as 1920 there was a large Greek population in Anatolia - driven out by Kemal Ataturk. (One of the Greeks driven out was the young Aristotle Onasis.)

The present Turkish speaking population in Anatolia is genetically descended from a wide mix of people who have lived in and passed through this land for centuries. I lived in Turkey for a year, and you see all types. I remember a red-headed flower seller in Izmir (Smyrna) who could have fit nicely onto the streets of Dublin.

...but that they MADE Etruria!

Anyway, the DNA research shows common features between the 2 populations.

You don't want to call them "Turks"?
Call them Lydians, as Herodotus does. Neo-Hittites, if you like. "Mix of people", yes.

It doesn't change the matter!

If your point is that certain strains of DNA are scattered all around the Mediterranean basin, that is undoubtedly true. Anyway, I've found the thread to be interesting. Have a nice day.

...and for your interest.
Incidentally, my point is that the gene the researchers talked about can't be found in other italian areas than in Etruscan older ones.
That's why it made news.

A nice day to you and thanks again!

but there were Turks living there as far back as the 9th century. Turks did not drive away the greeks it was a population exchange. One million turks from greece and 1.5 millions greeks were exchanged by the governments of turkey and greece. Remember that the turks were a majority in northern greece where they made up more then 60% of the population.

In 1700 half the population of the balkans was turkish most of them were driven and many massacred during 1686 and 1955. It is not right to say that turks were asian when they entered anatolia most turks did not look much different. Turks started mixing with non turks in central-asia, one of the most overlooked nations that heavily mixed with turks are the tocharians. Tocharians were a white germanic tribe that had lived there (central-asia) for millenia, they originally came from central russia.

The etruscans themselfes were not native to northern italy, they too came from central russia.

From an old Pete Seegar song.

Thanks for sharing.

:hi:

is that Turks are very ethnically diverse. Various conquering armies invaded Turkey and the Turks are diverse so how can they ensure that it's Turks who settled there.

...has been a mistery to us for years. Their origin, their language.
Herodotus said they were from what we call today Turkey. Others say they were born in the place - italic at root. Others stated they came from the north.

This research seems to reassure Herodotus was right. Naturally, we call now Anatolia and Turkey what at the time had other names. But the DNA the research is about seems to be the same and it's common to some today turkish people and people from villages in Tuscania - and to no one else. A common ground was laid.

My point was: why is the usual reaction (when an immigrant makes it) that something was stolen to us or to some that, according to us, had more right?

People running from wars, famine, invasions must be embraced long before politically and economically managed as a problem.

It's a big european issue, not only american. And the response is sometimes that we forget who the hell lives in our mixed blood, and that we think that today things are different from the past. But wars, famine, invasions, and desire for better life has been the same, for centuries and today. And miserable people all look the same, everywhere.

ciao and thanks!

Your point is well made. The GOP and the media have taken this issue to a new level of incredulity.

My ancestors came from England, from Northern Ireland, from Scotland, from Switzerland, from France. They came early on and helped build this country. But they were immigrants. They worked the land, were doctors, were preachers, were carpenters.

...it's exactly what I stated here in another thread on the subject
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=1127861&mesg_id=1127918

You know: Italy has a problem with demography, it can't express a modern culture, it's just getting old and needs new blood and energy.
How easily we forget and dismiss the big strenght of miserable people trying to survive!

What was that song: "nobody wants you when you're down and out!" (I know it in Eric Clapton's version)

ciao