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They're "Only Iraqis", it's o.k. to torture & rape them. (just don't call us Nazis)

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Philosoraptor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-17-07 08:46 AM
Original message
They're "Only Iraqis", it's o.k. to torture & rape them. (just don't call us Nazis)
Edited on Sun Jun-17-07 09:07 AM by Philosoraptor
http://uruknet.info/?p=m33751&s1=h1

Taguba was met at the door of the conference room by an old friend, Lieutenant General Bantz J. Craddock, who was Rumsfeld’s senior military assistant. Craddock’s daughter had been a babysitter for Taguba’s two children when the officers served together years earlier at Fort Stewart, Georgia. But that afternoon, Taguba recalled, "Craddock just said, very coldly, 'Wait here.’ " In a series of interviews early this year, the first he has given, Taguba told me that he understood when he began the inquiry that it could damage his career; early on, a senior general in Iraq had pointed out to him that the abused detainees were "only Iraqis." Even so, he was not prepared for the greeting he received when he was finally ushered in.

"Here . . . comes . . . that famous General Taguba—of the Taguba report!" Rumsfeld declared, in a mocking voice. The meeting was attended by Paul Wolfowitz, Rumsfeld’s deputy; Stephen Cambone, the Under-Secretary of Defense for Intelligence; General Richard Myers, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff (J.C.S.); and General Peter Schoomaker, the Army chief of staff, along with Craddock and other officials. Taguba, describing the moment nearly three years later, said, sadly, "I thought they wanted to know. I assumed they wanted to know. I was ignorant of the setting."

---------------------

Just don't dare insult any of the neo cons by calling them Nazis, the Nazis were all Germans from a long time ago silly. Calling an American citizen a Nazi is just a cheap stunt from someone with too weak a mind to argue sensibly.

And don't dare mention the fact that bush's grandpa was Hitler's buddy and biz partner and that bush 1 and bush 2 inherited millions made from the murdered slaves of Auschwitz, or someone is liable to call you a crazy zealot who simply wants to say something awful about our president.

DON'T YOU DARE call anyone a Nazi, lest you want to automatically be dismissed as a nut.

-------------------

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mp4vLBvU1bA Thanks EV_Ares!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=1125933&mesg_id=1125933 Thanks kpete!

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Philosoraptor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-17-07 10:58 AM
Response to Original message
1. ..............
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Cerridwen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-17-07 11:45 AM
Response to Original message
2. K & R
Took a while to read...I hope others take the time to read this.

Taguba, watching the hearings, was appalled. He believed that Rumsfeld’s testimony was simply not true. "The photographs were available to him—if he wanted to see them," Taguba said. Rumsfeld’s lack of knowledge was hard to credit. Taguba later wondered if perhaps Cambone had the photographs and kept them from Rumsfeld because he was reluctant to give his notoriously difficult boss bad news. But Taguba also recalled thinking, "Rumsfeld is very perceptive and has a mind like a steel trap. There’s no way he’s suffering from C.R.S.—Can’t Remember Shit. He’s trying to acquit himself, and a lot of people are lying to protect themselves." It distressed Taguba that Rumsfeld was accompanied in his Senate and House appearances by senior military officers who concurred with his denials.

<snip>

Taguba’s assignment was limited to investigating the 800th M.P.s, but he quickly found signs of the involvement of military intelligence—both the 205th Military Intelligence Brigade, commanded by Colonel Thomas Pappas, which worked closely with the M.P.s, and what were called "other government agencies," or O.G.A.s, a euphemism for the C.I.A. and special-operations units operating undercover in Iraq. Some of the earliest evidence involved Lieutenant Colonel Steven L. Jordan, whose name was mentioned in interviews with several M.P.s. For the first three weeks of the investigation, Jordan was nowhere to be found, despite repeated requests. When the investigators finally located him, he asked whether he needed to shave his beard before being interviewed—Taguba suspected that he had been dressing as a civilian. "When I asked him about his assignment, he says, 'I’m a liaison officer for intelligence from Army headquarters in Iraq.’ " But in the course of three or four interviews with Jordan, Taguba said, he began to suspect that the lieutenant colonel had been more intimately involved in the interrogation process—some of it brutal—for "high value" detainees.

<snip>

Despite the subsequent public furor over Abu Ghraib, neither the House nor the Senate Armed Services Committee hearings led to a serious effort to determine whether the scandal was a result of a high-level interrogation policy that encouraged abuse. At the House Committee hearing on May 7, 2004, a freshman Democratic congressman, Kendrick Meek, of Florida, asked Rumsfeld if it was time for him to resign. Rumsfeld replied, "I would resign in a minute if I thought that I couldn’t be effective. . . . I have to wrestle with that." But, he added, "I’m certainly not going to resign because some people are trying to make a political issue out of it." (Rumsfeld stayed in office for the next two and a half years, until the day after the 2006 congressional elections.) When I spoke to Meek recently, he said, "There was no way Rumsfeld didn’t know what was going on. He’s a guy who wants to know everything, and what he was giving us was hard to believe."

<snip>

Abu Ghraib had opened the door on the issue of the treatment of detainees, and from the beginning the Administration feared that the publicity would expose more secret operations and practices. Shortly after September 11th, Rumsfeld, with the support of President Bush, had set up military task forces whose main target was the senior leadership of Al Qaeda. Their essential tactic was seizing and interrogating terrorists and suspected terrorists; they also had authority from the President to kill certain high-value targets on sight. The most secret task-force operations were categorized as Special Access Programs, or S.A.P.s.

<snip>



Much more to read at OP's link.

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badgerpup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-17-07 10:55 PM
Response to Reply #2
8. Calling someone a 'Nazi' has been overused on BOTH sides...
...to the point that it's lost its original connotation.*
It now doesn't necessarily cast the target in a bad light; instead it relegates the person who used the term to a shrieking hysteric who can't make logical arguments (like anyone would listen to them) and can only call names.


*Sorta like the terms "patriot", "patriotism", "Christian/Christianity", "justice", "accountability"...there's a whole SLEW of terms that have lost or changed their original meanings under the Bush maladministration.
"Heckuva job, jerk." :argh:
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conscious evolution Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-18-07 05:30 AM
Response to Reply #8
16. Not even close to be overused
Logical argument after argument have been put forward on the web.Unfortunately to many fascist sympathizers start the lalalalalalaala I can't hear you thing when the bfee's true nature is pointed out.
Heckuva job is right.If you consider rape and pillaging a country a good job,that is.
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Cerridwen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-18-07 09:57 AM
Response to Reply #16
18. "Fascist sympathizers" or scared people desperately clinging
to the myth that "it can't happen here"? In spite of a history which includes rounding up Native American peoples onto reservations, breaking every treaty ever negotiated with every tribe, rounding up Japanese American people into "relocation" camps, exposure of COINTELPRO, exposure of CIA ops in South American countries, in spite of a history which points to how easily it can and HAS happened here.

Too many people still hold the "American Dream" in a death grip inside their minds; it's too painful to let it go. They exchange "comfort" in belief of the ideals of America for blindness to an American history which has denied those ideals to so many of her people over the centuries. Ignorance IS bliss for those people. But their bliss is destroying the very ideals they so frantically worship. We are paying the ultimate price for their ignorance.



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Cerridwen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-18-07 09:44 AM
Response to Reply #8
17. It would seem George Orwell knew what was coming...
the degradation of language to irrelevance. Catch phrases, jingoism, slogans, sound bites, name calling, paying lip service, instead of discussion, debate, thoughtful communication, intelligent discourse, meaningful words...a well informed electorate.

I'm old enough to remember when there was still some gravitas in public discourse and I'm young enough to dread the days ahead in which the U.S. speeds down the intellectual hill to an "Idiocracy".



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Philosoraptor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-18-07 11:22 AM
Response to Reply #17
21. I read it in highschool, so did karl rove.
Only the two of us seemed to take it's meaning differently, I saw it as a warning and a profound lesson, he found it a handbook for his beloved big brother. I believe the neo cons are using the Nazi/1984 Plan, officially called the Project for a New American Century, which we are in the early stages of. Phase two is about to kick in.
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G_j Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-17-07 11:09 PM
Response to Reply #2
10. of course!
NO "serious effort to determine whether the scandal was a result of a high-level interrogation policy that encouraged abuse."

And then many of them have seen the photos that are far worse than what we the public have seen, and still done nothing.
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Cerridwen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-17-07 11:57 AM
Response to Original message
3. Gonna kick this back up while everyone's off reading it n/t
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Philosoraptor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-17-07 02:54 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. Hollywood should make 'Abu Ghraib', instead of 'Saw III'
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-17-07 02:57 PM
Response to Original message
5. NOBODY dismisses me as a nut.
... but I'm on several Ignore Lists. Here's a photo of a typical Ignore List user ...



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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-17-07 11:12 PM
Response to Reply #5
11. It's like an ostrich...


...but with more hamsters.
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Spazito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-18-07 11:09 AM
Response to Reply #5
20. LOL! Perfect, absolutely perfect!
Up until you posted this, I was trying to envision someone with no nose as in "cutting off one's nose to spite one's face" kind of thing. I like yours much better!

Thanks for the laugh and the visual!
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Raskolnik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-17-07 04:04 PM
Response to Original message
6. You're right. "Nazi" is a synonym for "very, very bad"
Present-day neo-conservatism is politically identical to German National Socialism.

Both are bad, so they must be the same thing, right?
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G_j Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-17-07 11:05 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. right!
:thumbsup:
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Raskolnik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-17-07 11:15 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. Wrong!
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G_j Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-17-07 11:34 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. no
Edited on Sun Jun-17-07 11:37 PM by G_j
actually worse than bad..evil
:eyes:

& of course they are not politically identical
just the trappings of the times
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Recursion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-17-07 10:53 PM
Response to Original message
7. You're right; the Nazis at least had universal healthcare
So they were one up on these jackasses in that regard.
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Philosoraptor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-18-07 04:29 AM
Response to Original message
14. ..............
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Hubert Flottz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-18-07 04:43 AM
Response to Original message
15. Would you believe....
"Nazi Like?"
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Philosoraptor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-18-07 10:42 AM
Response to Reply #15
19. If it goose steps like a duck, & tortures like a duck, it's a duck.
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Raskolnik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-18-07 11:25 AM
Response to Reply #19
22. Were Nazis the first/only political ethos that waged aggressive war and engaged in torture?
If you could point out the aspects of modern neo-conservatism that are uniquely analogous to the tenets National Socialism (as opposed to, say, Baathism, Italian Fascism, or Stalinism) it would make your argument much stronger.
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Philosoraptor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-18-07 11:49 AM
Response to Reply #22
23. Any 'ism' that oppresses, conquers, tortures or murders.
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Raskolnik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-18-07 11:56 AM
Response to Reply #23
24. So it would be just as accurate to call Bush a Baathist?
You know, these words mean very specific things, and "Nazi" is NOT shorthand for any regime that "oppresses, conquers, tortures, or murders."



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Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-19-07 07:51 AM
Response to Original message
25. kick
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