Two Word's Hillary.......

........FU#K YOU and the horse you rode on.......

.....as you say if you would have been president in 2002 we wouldn't be in Iraq.....so nice it has taken you 4 1/2 years to start start Monday morning quarterbacking.......again you prove just how disingenuous you really are....

do give an impression of political expediency rather than sincere belief.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

Unless you are insulting the Democratic Party.

Good Democrats don't join right-wing smears against other Democrats.

I don't necessarily agree with the o.p.'s logic, but calling Hillary Clinton a "good Democrat" is a stretch, and she certainly isn't a "very good Democrat."

But then, after what she pulled on Kerry, I have trouble seeing her as a good person even.

vote for in the dem primary....and I AM a democrat

who have a lot of doubts that Hillary is a progressive. Hillary Clinton is dancing and spinning as if she's ever opposed this war that she has fully supported for years. Some of us would like a Democratic Candidate who is is really progressive, not just faking it when she thinks it's safe.

.....just someone who has participated in helping the DEMS get elected in 06 because they said they would make change....so far Obamba and Edwards have spoke boldly ....


Hilary should continue to work for the people of New York I don't plan on helping her in future employment. I think Id rather have Hagel at least he has been against the occupation...

..........09 is a long ways to late to end the occupation.....


REP plant........geez what ever happened to real liberalism where one could be critical of someone in the party...

She's a very good hawkish centrist corporatist.

Oh wait.. I think Rush Limbaugh may have done that already. Rush? is that you?

Please re-read my post.

point taken.

I call BS.

or Rumsfeld's firing in 2003-2004 when both those issues were spearheaded by Kerry, the NOMINEE, but who had little backup from Dems, especially BIGNAME Democrats who sided closer to Bush than to Kerry throughout the 2004 election cycle.

THAT is being a good Democrat?

If he had won, she would have had to wait until 2012 to run.

And that's what bothers me about her, I think she'll always put her own ambitions ahead of any real positions.

Free Trade has devastated many middle class jobs by outsourcing overseas. Can you please tell us who brought us NAFTA?

and then there issue of the DLC connection to PNAC:

Will Marshall is one of the founders of the New Democrat movement, which aims to steer the US Democratic Party toward a more right-wing orientation. Since its founding in 1989, he has been president of the Progressive Policy Institute, a think tank affiliated with the Democratic Leadership Council. He recently served on the board of the Committee for the Liberation of Iraq, a committee chaired by Joe Lieberman and John McCain designed to build bipartisan support for the invasion of Iraq. Marshall also signed, at the outset of the war, a letter issued by the Project for the New American Century (PNAC) expressing support for the invasion. Marshall signed a similar letter sent to President Bush put out by the Social Democrats USA on Feb. 25, 2003, just before the invasion. The SDUSA letter urged Bush to commit to "maintaining substantial U.S. military forces in Iraq for as long as may be required to ensure a stable, representative regime is in place and functioning." He writes frequently on political and public policy matters, especially the "Politics of Ideas" column in Blueprint, the DLC's magazine. Notably, he is one of the co-authors of Progressive Internationalism: A Democratic National Security Strategy.

-snip
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Will_Marshall


Thanks, but no thanks...no votes for DLC in our household

I'm becoming more and more suspicious of the Hillary attacks lately. Seems too coordinated, and none of these folks seem to ever attack anyone else that voted for the resolution... nor do they attack the people that REALLY got us into this fucking war.

"Rush, is that you?"

be "suspicious" of our "hill-ary attacks", buster..cause it ain't gonna do you a whole lot of good.

Those Hillary opinions are coming from a wide variety of people on DU. Can't you just accept we don't like her, for reasons stated above, and don't have to?

Edwards not only voted for the resolution...he co-sponsored it.

http://www.congress.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d107:SJ00046:@@@P


...then let's not forget that Bill Clinton caved into PNAC's pressure and enacted the Iraq Liberation Act.

call us plants is downright disgusting. She is my Senator and I have not supported her since she voted for the IWR against the majority of NYers who were against it. She couldn't give a crap.

Bad candidate for our nominee.

Sorry --- but tis true.

:eyes:

Wirds???? Wurds'? Hell, who care's about plural's or singular's anyway's. LOL's.



Frankly, Hillary Clinton is a brutally effective competitor - and she's clean and articulate, too!

with conspicuous consumption.

:rofl:

:rofl:

..
:D

:evilgrin:

the proper codewords will suffice to protect the base of 13% voters who support her, and will approach the 23% of those willing to support her should she take any stance on Iraq, and might make inroads on the 39% who disagree with her on other issues.
Therefore, the polls suggest that a timely refined, nuanced, but strong, statement (we are working on the exact words now), promoted in advance, tested, tasted and refined again, delivered with the right impact (the videocams are ready for the practice sessions) will win on this issue.

Hillary is holding a commanding position in the Dem polls. Obama is fading. Edwards is third but not gaining. Hillary is doing fine, and attacks on her from the right or the Nader lefties will not stop her.

BLEHHHHHH. no, I'm not finished yet.

.....to the juice the DLC wants us to drink.......Get used to one thing about Hillary...she is going to have her bad joke day and it will back fire on her hopefully not at the cost of a democratic victory in the House..Senate and of all things....the White House..

Big balloons pop louder....

is a fool.

but the MSM seems to be wedded to the horrific idea of Hillary as the candidate. And even more than the Bushistas, the MSM NEVER admits to being wrong.

The first primary is a year ahead. Hillary is the favorite of the media and party. Maybe Gore or Clark will enter. Maybe Dodd will gain favor as an experienced anti- Hillary. If we don't like it we need to find the best alternative and support him.

We can still work to make sure she's not the nominee.

Howard Dean

keep dr. dean in mind, when it comes to hillary, remember when kerry get caught on the open mike sayin "dean, dean, dean, dean, how things can change.

It's another year before the FIRST primary.

Howard Dean actually WAS the best candidate in the race. The DLC stole that primary and they'll try to steal this one as well.

will immediately be dust in the wind.

on edit: I really do want him to wait till late and then come sweeping through on his white horse.

She does have to appeal to the entire country in order to win, not just the doves and the greens.

President Hillary Clinton...

Get used to it!!!

FOX News/Opinion Dynamics Poll. Jan. 30-31, 2007. N=900 registered voters nationwide. Results below are among Democratic voters (MoE ± 5).

.

"If the 2008 Democratic presidential primary were held today, for whom would you vote if the candidates were ?" Names rotated

.

1/30-31/07
%
Hillary Clinton 43

Barack Obama 15

John Edwards 12

Al Gore 11

Joseph Biden 4

Bill Richardson 2

Tom Vilsack -

Dennis Kucinich -

Chris Dodd -

Other (vol.) 2

Unsure 9

Wouldn't vote (vol.) 1

and McCain's star is falling as though a black hole suddenly appeared in front of his strate-talc-bus.

I can never support her.

Richardson is so much better. Edwards is so much more appealing. Obama is so much more fresh and alive and spontaneous and honest.
and then we have Al Gore. the master with experience and credibility. Hillary is a poor choice indeed.

AND THREE MORE WORDS:
ACADEMY AWARD WINNER

AND THREE MORE WORDS:
NOBEL PRIZE WINNER

and I seriously doubt if Al will be so forgiving as to favor her a VP nod...

Al ain't runnin...

It's obvious that she has plenty of paid "defenders" here, whether from her own staff or the DLC's (assuming there's any separation between the two anymore)

No, I won't stoop to your level. I DO think you're on the wrong website... if you'd like to tell democrats to "fuck off", while totally ignoring the REAL people that took us to Iraq, I think you'll find better places.

How fucking pathetic that ONLY HIllary is being attacked so viciously here on DU for the Iraq vote.. when plenty of the other Dems voted for the resolution as well. Why is this barbaric treatment of Hillary allowed? Oh.. because she's a female? Or because we're chock-full of instigators who are happy to destroy, what some would consider, a front-runner for the Democrats. Once she's been swifboated by some in her own party and instigators posing as Democrats, then it's on to destroy the next one. It's so fucking obvious, it's what ROVE and his pals did last time, and only the brightest people on DU caught on.

ON EDIT: I would not favor Hillary in the primary, as I have other candidates I like more. HOWEVER.. I would fight for her in the general election with my last breath. And would NEVER spend a minute trying to DESTROY a Democratic candidate because even with my lowly intelligence, I'm smart enough to see that is how to keep a Democrat out of the White House.. AGAIN.

her?...YES.

I hardly think it's ONLY hillary being attacked for that vote. There has been thread after thread about the IWR voters. I'm not sure how you missed the recent Edwards mansion threads; there's almost always been someone piping in saying who cares about the house, he was a war monger when we needed him not to be.

"Electing Democrats is not the same thing as stopping the war." http://stangoff.com/?p=455

You said:
..."ONLY HIllary is being attacked so viciously here on DU for the Iraq vote."

That statement (your premise) is false. Myself and many others here hold ALL NeoCon WAR Enablers accountable. Visit some of the old Kerry threads, or some of the current Edwards threads. Many here (myself included) will NOT support anyone who voted FOR the IWR.



Reduced to the simplest terms, there are only 3 reasons for a "Yea" vote on the IWR:

1)Sincerely believing the Bush*/NeoCon propaganda, in which case that individual has shockingly poor judgment and is not qualified for any management position,

2) Is a puppet for those Corporate Interests who would make $Billions in War Profits, or a bought puppet for AIPAC

3) Fear of political repercussions, in which case their lack of moral integrity disqualifies them from any leadership position. Anyone who values their career more than the LIVES of innocent civilians has serious problems.



The Democratic Party Honor Roll
These Democrats should be remembered for their principled stand against the WAR Machine.

IWR

United States Senate

In the Senate, the 21 Democrats, one Republican and one Independent who courageously voted their consciences in 2002 against the War in Iraq were:

Daniel Akaka (D-Hawaii)
Jeff Bingaman (D-New Mexico)
Barbara Boxer (D-California)
Robert Byrd (D-West Virginia)
Kent Conrad (D-North Dakota)
Jon Corzine (D-New Jersey)
Mark Dayton (D-Minnesota)
Dick Durbin (D-Illinois)
Russ Feingold (D-Wisconsin)
Bob Graham (D-Florida)
Daniel Inouye (D-Hawaii)
Jim Jeffords (I-Vermont)
Ted Kennedy (D-Massachusetts)
Patrick Leahy (D-Vermont)
Carl Levin (D-Michigan)
Barbara Mikulski (D-Maryland)
Patty Murray (D-Washington)
Jack Reed (D-Rhode Island)
Paul Sarbanes (D-Maryland)
Debbie Stabenow (D-Michigan)
The late Paul Wellstone (D-Minnesota)
Ron Wyden (D-Oregon)

Lincoln Chaffee (R-Rhode Island)


United States House of Representatives

Six House Republicans and one independent joined 126 Democratic members of the House of Represenatives:

Neil Abercrombie (D-Hawaii)
Tom Allen (D-Maine)
Joe Baca (D-California)
Brian Baird (D-Washington DC)
John Baldacci (D-Maine, now governor of Maine)
Tammy Baldwin (D-Wisconsin)
Xavier Becerra (D-California)
Earl Blumenauer (D-Oregon)
David Bonior (D-Michigan, retired from office)
Robert Brady (D-Pennsylvania)
Corinne Brown (D-Florida)
Sherrod Brown (D-Ohio)
Lois Capps (D-California)
Michael Capuano (D-Massachusetts)
Benjamin Cardin (D-Maryland)
Julia Carson (D-Indiana)
William Clay, Jr. (D-Missouri)
Eva Clayton (D-North Carolina, retired from office)
James Clyburn (D-South Carolina)
Gary Condit (D-California, retired from office)
John Conyers, Jr. (D-Michigan)
Jerry Costello (D-Illinois)
William Coyne (D-Pennsylvania, retired from office)
Elijah Cummings (D-Maryland)
Susan Davis (D-California)
Danny Davis (D-Illinois)
Peter DeFazio (D-Oregon)
Diana DeGette (D-Colorado)
Bill Delahunt (D-Massachusetts)
Rosa DeLauro (D-Connecticut)
John Dingell (D-Michigan)
Lloyd Doggett (D-Texas)
Mike Doyle (D-Pennsylvania)
Anna Eshoo (D-California)
Lane Evans (D-Illinois)
Sam Farr (D-California)
Chaka Fattah (D-Pennsylvania)
Bob Filner (D-California)
Barney Frank (D-Massachusetts)
Charles Gonzalez (D-Texas)
Luis Gutierrez (D-Illinois)
Alice Hastings (D-Florida)
Earl Hilliard (D-Alabama, retired from office)
Maurice Hinchey (D-New York)
Ruben Hinojosa (D-Texas)
Rush Holt (D-New Jersey)
Mike Honda (D-California)
Darlene Hooley (D-Oregon)
Inslee
Jackson (Il.)
Jackson-Lee (TX)
Johnson, E.B.
Jones (OH)
Kaptur
Kildee
Kilpatrick
Kleczka
Kucinich
LaFalce
Langevin
Larsen (WA)
Larson (CT)
Lee
Levin
Lewis (GA)
Lipinski
Lofgren
Maloney (CT)
Matsui
McCarthy (MO)
McCollum
McDermott
McGovern
McKinney
Meek (FL)
Meeks (NY)
Menendez
Millender-McDonald
Miller
Mollohan
Moran (Va)
Nadler
Napolitano
Neal
Oberstar
Obey
Olver
Owens
Pallone
Pastor
Payne
Pelosi
Price (NC)
Rahall
Rangel
Reyes
Rivers
Rodriguez
Roybal-Allard
Rush
Sabo
Sanchez
Sanders
Sawyer
Schakowsky
Scott
Serrano
Slaughter
Snyder
Solis
Stark
Strickland
Stupak
Thompson (CA)
Thompson (MS)
Tierney
Towns
Udall (NM)
Udall (CO)
Velazquez
Visclosky
Waters
Watson
Watt
Woolsey
Wu

or at least consolidate some of them?

ya know.

and not directed at Hillary. From the both of us .... with love!

But you should be directing that kind of talk to the thief in the White House!

The administrators of Democratic Underground are working to provide a place where progressives can share ideas and debate in an atmosphere of mutual respect. Despite our best efforts, some of our members often stray from this ideal and cheapen the quality of discourse for everyone else.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/forums/rules_detailed.html

Thanks,
petersond
DU Moderator