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-..__... Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-22-07 07:27 PM
Original message
If you knowingly hire even 1 illegal immigrant..
does that make you just as much as part of the problem as large corporations that hire dozens to hundreds?

What about a smallish business that employs only a handful?
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MadMaddie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-22-07 07:28 PM
Response to Original message
1. Small or large....it's still against the law...
Hire American workers.....
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madokie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-22-07 07:29 PM
Response to Original message
2. a big loud resounding Yes
illegal is illegal, no wiggle room
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Xipe Totec Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-22-07 07:31 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Remember Victor Hugo's Lesson - Les Miserables nt
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-22-07 07:42 PM
Response to Reply #3
9. That lesson is lost on many here
who seemingly prefer a nation more to Javert's liking....
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Xipe Totec Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-22-07 09:28 PM
Response to Reply #9
31. I know it's against the law. I ask you, what has the law ever done for this place?
- Dr. Wilbur Larch, The Cider House Rules 1999
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Captain Angry Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-22-07 07:31 PM
Response to Original message
4. Ask the wealthy people who keep getting caught with one minding their children.

As they say, you don't get rich by spending money. These guys have that down to a science. Buy somebody, pay them very little, and keep them out of sight to clean your toilet.

If the economy tanks, and average people figure out EXACTLY how favored the wealthy are, it could get very ugly.
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karlrschneider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-22-07 07:35 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. Yes, but there's always that executive privilege to fall back on.
:grr:
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-..__... Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-22-07 07:50 PM
Response to Reply #4
13. But, it's just not the wealthy.
What about middle class homeowners that hire the occasional (or one time), carpentry contractor, landscaping crew, etc because the home owner either lacks the time, knowledge, equipment, physical ability, etc to perform the job?

Small restaurant owners are most likely not even close to being middle-class. Should they be held to the same standard/culpability/fines as say Swifts?
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RB TexLa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-22-07 07:37 PM
Response to Original message
6. I will enter into financial agreements with whomever I choose.
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havocmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-22-07 07:47 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. Regardless of laws?
How cheney of you.
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RB TexLa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-22-07 07:49 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. I went jogging without identification or any money today

Let me guess you want the vagrancy laws enforced and have me spend a night in jail for breaking the law?
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havocmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-22-07 07:58 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. No, not at all
but I want those who hire illegals AKA ILLEGAL employers, put in jail for breaking the law.
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RB TexLa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-22-07 08:00 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. No, you don't want me punished for vagrancy? "regardless of the laws"
How Libby of you.
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ManiacJoe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-22-07 08:11 PM
Response to Reply #11
20. Are you saying that your city requires...
... you to have ID and money on you whenever you are off your own property?!?!
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RB TexLa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-22-07 08:13 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. If you are on the public streets. Our outgoing mayor floated the idea of enforcing it
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havocmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-22-07 08:22 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. Outgoing mayor/local law as opposed to a national law about employers hiring illegals...
not QUITE on a par. Your straw man has a decided limp.
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RB TexLa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-22-07 08:28 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. They are both antiquated laws that have outlived their usefulness
and have no business being enforced.
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havocmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-22-07 08:36 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. ah, no, one out of two
your straw man is dropping matter all over the place.

Hiring illegal workers is abusive, often done to avoid taxes and safety/worker protection laws and therefore harms our society.

Walking around without your wallet is NOT a threat to anybody but a gung-ho cop.
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RB TexLa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-22-07 08:39 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. You feel it should be enforced, I don't.
Edited on Fri Jun-22-07 08:40 PM by RGBolen
before I go, think you could at least once refer to them as human beings? It might make you feel just a little better about life to refer to people as people instead of "illegals," try it. You can still call for denying them a chance to work.
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havocmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-22-07 08:45 PM
Response to Reply #26
27. I use the term illegals for both undocumented entrants AND the smucks who abuse them
You are tossing more straw out there and it is a pretty empty gesture.

Might be I am a person who stashed water in the desert. You just don't know, do you? :rofl:
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-..__... Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-22-07 08:04 PM
Response to Reply #6
17. That wasn't the question.
Sure... you can "enter into financial agreements with whomever I choose", but if you do that (knowingly violating the law), are you... should you, be held just as accountable as the owners of a large meat packing plant or mom and pop construction company?
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-22-07 07:38 PM
Response to Original message
7. I have a lovely Hispanic man who has cut my lawn for years
with a crew; I don't know whether he's legal or not, nor do I care. He's dependable, honest, and nice. And I have to believe if I fired him, we'd both lose.
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-22-07 08:12 PM
Response to Reply #7
21. What are you? Some kind of (gasp, eek) humanitarian???
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The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-22-07 07:41 PM
Response to Original message
8. What's the population of Miami?
Assume at least 1 to 2% of the residents hire a nanny or cleaning lady who is illegal. So, what is the population of Miami? Does it come out to a big number?
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Horse with no Name Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-22-07 07:49 PM
Response to Original message
12. Yes.
AND that make YOU at fault for offering what they seek.
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Jed Dilligan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-22-07 08:03 PM
Response to Original message
16. A huge number of "illegal employers"
are legal immigrants who own businesses and employ family members who come over on tourist visas. I'd say these people are doing more good than harm--the workers, being family, are well taken-care-of, even if it doesn't show on the books. I've lived in inner-city neighborhoods where these are the only people willing and capable of selling the basic necessities of life to residents. The supermarkets won't touch these places, and there isn't exactly a queue of native-born 'Murcans lining up to sell bananas in the ghetto.
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Stinky The Clown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-22-07 08:05 PM
Response to Original message
18. Yup ... just as guilty
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-22-07 08:10 PM
Response to Original message
19. I've hired them, indirectly, and would do so again.
Had to have a tree removed from my property. Hired a tree removal service. They showed up, 1 white guy, 3 latinos who spoke almost no English. Good, careful, workers who risked their necks.

I can't swear they were "illegal" cuz I didn't play "good German" and ask for their papers. I did offer them coffee and cigarettes and gave them all generous tips when they were done.

So sue me.
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nevergiveup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-22-07 08:48 PM
Response to Original message
28. Several years ago
after major back surgery I hired an older Mexican man to do the yard work at my small business. The guy is a sweetheart and works his ass off and I pay him well. I suspect he may be illegal but I don't ask and he don't tell.
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mitchum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-22-07 09:06 PM
Response to Original message
29. Yes (n/t)
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-22-07 09:26 PM
Response to Original message
30. The key word, imho, is "employ" ... including matching FICA.
As an individual, my making payment for services does not equate to "hire" any more than walking into a store that uses illegal aliens and buying retail is the same as 'employ.' In general, I regard the provisions of the current immigration laws as applicable to licensed businesses filing AS A BUSINESS and domestic employees. At the retail/individual level, if I can't know where the fuck the wheat gluten came from then how the hell am I to know where the employees of some service company came from and whether they're legally authorized to work in the U.S.? They AIN'T my employees.

Ref 8 USC 1324a http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode08/usc_sec_08_00001324---a000-.html
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