LAT: BUSH JOINS CHENEY; NOW CLAIMS EXEMPTION FROM HIS OWN OVERSIGHT ORDER

Bush claims exemption from his oversight order
By Josh Meyer, Times Staff Writer
7:44 PM PDT, June 22, 2007

WASHINGTON -- The White House said Friday that, like Vice President Dick Cheney's office, President Bush's office is exempt from a presidential order requiring government agencies that handle classified national security information to submit to oversight by an independent federal watchdog.

The executive order that Bush issued in March 2003 covers all government agencies that are part of the executive branch and, although it doesn't specifically say so, was not meant to apply to the vice president's office or the president's office, a White House spokesman said....

***

...from the start, Bush considered his office and Cheney's exempt from the reporting requirements, White House spokesman Tony Fratto said in an interview Friday...."We don't dispute that the ISOO has a different opinion. But let's be very clear; this executive order was issued by the president, and he knows what his intentions were," Fratto said. "He is in compliance with his executive order."

Fratto conceded that the lengthy directive, technically an amendment to an existing executive order, does not specifically exempt the president's office or the vice president's office from the requirements. Instead, it refers to "agencies" as being subject to the requirements, which Fratto said did not include the two executive offices. "It does take a little bit of inference," Fratto said....

***

"If the president and the vice president don't take their own rules seriously, who else should?" said Tom Blanton, director of the National Security Archive, a nongovernmental research institute at George Washington University in Washington that lobbies for open government. "If they get a blank check, it's a recipe for disaster. I can't think of a quicker way to break down the credibility of the entire security classification system."...

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-cheney23jun23,0,863839.story?coll=la-home-nation

I honestly don't think it will work. Too much has eeked out; now the dim one wants to hitch his star to Cheney's stupidity? Who's in charge here? I realize they're losing many stalwart buddies, but they sound, to me, like they are all in free-fall. That's good for us. But really...

(Please tell me it won't work. :crazy:)

Quaker Oats guy spawned the one who smells of sulphur.

This is, like, Bush could either distance himself from Cheney or embrace Cheney's fantastical position. Bush chose #2 as the better option. And perhaps, in a cynical way, it is, for Bush... but it stinks. It really stinks.

Note that the order itself defines 'agency' in such a way that most certainly does include the WH.

in the WP, the word in the order was actually any "entity". To me that clearly reads as anyone in Executive with classified docs.

The order has one of those nice little legal definitions at the start that actually says what certain terms mean, and that definition includes such and such and such "and any entity" that's part of the executive branch (you know, including the office of the president!!!) that has access to classified documents (you know, like the office of the president!!!).

That is not an easy definition to screw up. That is not an easy definition to misread. This 'inference' business is complete legal garbage. Never in history has an executive order been interpreted contrary to its plain written meaning because the President 'must have intended' something else. If he really intends something else, let him make an executive order to that effect!!! That's what secret findings are all about re: assassinations or other black ops jobs in the first place. But at least there IS a written order, even if it's kept under wraps. Otherwise, who's to know what the hell is in the President's head? That's not the way a civilized government functions.

who's in charge...cheney would never have a snowball's chance in hell of being elected pResident and he knows it...but he is the true puppet master.

btw, *ush didn't choose the dick as vp, the dick did so himself.

to the pictures. That is the only explaination.

He's got something over Junior and it has to be extremely incriminating.

They are on the same bloody page.

"Fratto conceded that the lengthy directive, technically an amendment to an existing executive order, does not specifically exempt the president's office or the vice president's office from the requirements. Instead, it refers to "agencies" as being subject to the requirements, which Fratto said did not include the two executive offices. "It does take a little bit of inference," Fratto said...."

:wow:

in full out protection/bullshit mode this eve!

(Since I had seen it reported on the morning talking head shows--good!)

and I thought "Fratto" was a new nickname for *. You know, as in "frat boy"?

(I guess I'm showing my current events ignorance by not being familiar with the Fratto guy, but they are coming and going so fast these days.... ;) )

Kinda worked, dinnit?

Total utter abysmal tinpot dictator trash.

Lordy, I can hear that compactor going now.

*His* intentions are the only ones that matter. (I thought about putting :sarcasm:, but, really, that is the simple truth. If you haven't internalized that, you don't "get" this administration.)

you can bet your butt Scalia and Thomas will be able to suss out the dim one's intentions.

:crazy:

The best LSD could not have prepared me for this.

I'm truly astounded

Asking her to please impeach Dick over his traitorous crap
and now I'm gonna have to write another letter.
I told her Dick Cheney made me ashamed to be an American
and that she was the only one who could really get impeachment going.
I never felt this shame before. I feel weak and I dont like it.

Okay, Cheney says he's exempt because he's not part of the Executive branch. (So, what IS he a part of? Has to be either Executive or Legislative. If neither, he's outta government.)

But what's Bush's excuse? If he's not in the Executive branch, who is?

He's broken his oath to "uphold and defend the Constitution of the United States" many times over, but this one is nothing less than an overt declaration of dictatorial powers.

BTW, CREW had a few choice words about Cheney:

Just found this on a blog:

"Keith Olbermann reported tonight that WH spokesmodel Perino told reporters that the Big Dick's 'exemption from the White House records rules was on 'page 18 of the EO' (Executive Order, I presume), but, in fact, there is no such thing on that page. Olbermann's staff then requested clarification from the White House and was pointed to sections 1.3 and 5.2, neither of which cover any such exemption."

http://youwillanyway.blogspot.com/2007/06/update-on-cheney-branch-of-government.html

They are scrambling to explain Dick, and now, they have to explain the blivet. It's the same ole incompetence; they just don't get how freaking stupid they are, and they, one day, maybe soon, will experience the wrath of US from their stupidity.
I hold out hope in my heart!

aside from a very few like Olbermann, nobody in the M$M will touch this sort of story, as they avoid the utter politicization of the entire Justice Department, among myriad others

has always considered the VP to be part of the executive branch (differing from the earlier Cheney interpretation-ie 4th branch)

I could be mistaken. I was still seething from how RFK Jr was treated on Tweety.

Who isn't afraid of going to jail for what he's helped these fascist pricks to do.

Actually, you'll need more than one.

:mad: :grr: :cry: :sarcasm: :argh: :wtf:

:grr:

so is bush.

simple as that. the congress needs to go after him with both feet and make noise about it along the way.

and NO ONE is stopping them!!!!

identical but reversed world up was down, good was bad, etc. I NEVER thought I would see it actually come to be. Holy crap!

Yes, you're correct -- right down to the Federation becoming an Empire. Except there never was a good Bush** and Cheney. Those evil fucks are all ours.

Sadly we don't have the equivalent of the Enterprise's senior officers in Congress to deal with them either.

:cry: :mad:

Cheney and Bush were on their way to Camp David, but an argument broke out.
They were both killed in a fierce battle.
Regrettable, but it leaves Mrs. Pelosi in Command!

Seriously, these evasions might buy them a little time.
But I like to think of every event like this as another couple of years the 'Cons will be out in the cold.

Do we need to hold his executive orders over a candle in the hopes that otherwise invisible writing will appear?

Do we here at the DU need to hold a seance, consult the tea leaves or get a tarot deck in order to have informed knowledge of the workings of the executive branch?

It is just amazing!

K&R

This reminds me of an old Bob Hope routine where he's playing a game (golf? cards?) with a completely insane person who keeps telling him what the rules are except they are always different.

In Guys and Dolls, Big Jule plays craps with blank dice. The other players have to trust him because he knows what the numbers on the dice "formerly were."

The Plame case for starters?????

Also, at one point they announced that a particular guy was in Al Qaeda... turns out he was a mole working for Pakistani intelligence... he did the IT work for Al Qaeda, he was perfectly positioned to know everything about them... and they blew his cover.

Those are two big ones I can think of.

I suspect I'll like the answer about as much as I usually do.:puke:

when he opposed the FOIA requests dealing with the Energy Task Force.

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=us&vol=000&invol=03-475

:wow: yet they continue...

but you know, this comes as no surprise to me.

Here on DU we have discussed the reluctance to let go of control that is the hallmark of this administration. We have seen Republicans lie, cover up evidence, ignore and defy the Constitution, steal, neglect and cheat.

I expect them to try to determine how far they can cross over the line. At some point, either someone will stop them or the American people will erupt into chaos.

Trickle-down applies to ethics, and eventually you are going to see a population that feels it does not need to follow the rules, either. If we can't hold Iraq, how can we contain the rage of this nation?


Even the most jack-booted creep I know will be with his own family if all hell breaks loose. The only chance this administration would have to declare martial law would be to bring in foreign troops. (Watch out for that guest-worker program bringing in SWAT teams, LOL but not really. Please.)

These people screw up everything they touch and I believe it will be a small puff of wind, some stupid little oversight, that will be their undoing.

Maybe this will be the straw that breaks the Supremes' backs but the SCOTUS seems stacked against us Common People, so watch and see what they do next.

And if you are the praying/meditating sort, pray/meditate really fervently.

:yoiks:

THE LAWS WE MAKE ARE FOR THE LITTLE PEOPLE, NOT US!

I think I got my answer and it likely is NOT the clause that Bush/Cheney are trying to use. But, I'm still trying to wrap my head around this and I posted another angle in post # 102, specifically related to how they might have maneuvered themselves to be exempt from oversight.

Section "Sec. 5.3. Information Security Oversight Office" of the EO establishes the Information Security Oversight Office (ISOO) which has the following tasks:

(1) develop directives for the implementation of this order;

(2) oversee agency actions to ensure compliance with this order and its implementing directives;

(3) review and approve agency implementing regulations and agency guides for systematic declassification review prior to their issuance by the agency;

(4) have the authority to conduct on-site reviews of each agency's program established under this order, and to require of each agency those reports, information, and other cooperation that may be necessary to fulfill its responsibilities. If granting access to specific categories of classified information would pose an exceptional national security risk, the affected agency head or the senior agency official shall submit a written justification recommending the denial of access to the Director of the Office of Management and Budget within 60 days of the request for access. Access shall be denied pending a prompt decision by the Director of the Office of Management and Budget, who shall consult on this decision with the Assistant to the President for National Security Affairs;

(5) review requests for original classification authority from agencies or officials not granted original classification authority and, if deemed appropriate, recommend Presidential approval through the Director of the Office of Management and Budget;

(6) consider and take action on complaints and suggestions from persons within or outside the Government with respect to the administration of the program established under this order;

(7) have the authority to prescribe, after consultation with affected agencies, standardization of forms or procedures that will promote the implementation of the program established under this order;

(8) report at least annually to the President on the implementation of this order; and

(9) convene and chair interagency meetings to discuss matters pertaining to the program established by this order.
http://www.fas.org/sgp/clinton/eo12958.html


The section cited in the other post refers only to "Mandatory Declassification Review." which is just one part of the entire set of regulations defined by EXECUTIVE ORDER 12958.

Cheney, and now Bush, claiming immunity from any ISOO oversight based on the exception for "Mandatory Declassification Review" would be just plain old wrong, not that they wouldn't do it. That idiot spokes-woman (liar) yesterday was claiming that as Bush is the executive the EO means whatever he says it means, or something to that effect.

It's almost funny how pitiful their arguements are becoming on conflicts that arise.

Just how much obviously illegal garbage does this administration have to pull off in order to get kicked out? I mean serious, off the top of my head I can think of plenty of illegal things it's done or tried to do so far.

-Exempting themselves from having to submit to independent federal watchdogs when dealing with classified national security information.
-Firing prosecutors for not prosecuting enough democrats and putting democrat scandals in the news.
-Violating international law and treaties by invading Iraq.
-Refusing to follow congresses' subpoenas, and then deleting the subpoenaed information.
-Violating laws for recording stuff done in the white house for historical purposes, such as by using RNC emails to discuss whitehouse business.
-Using plenty of signing statements to change or get around laws, such as saying he's allowed to torture prisoners.
-Violating the Geneva convention with prisoners we captured in the war on terror and war in Iraq.

And to be honest I've probably forgotten half a dozen more laws that the president has broken while in office.

At the very least least get a judge to order all records be preserved and not destroyed; at most, force them to submit to oversight to determine whether things really need to be classified.

smart remark when i opened your thread.

and then i had to check your link, because i still didn't believe it.

YOU'RE NOT KIDDING!?!

kill me!

if I had read the article right. I had had a glass of wine with dinner, and I was worried my eyes were deceiving me. It's breathtaking.

done. he had to exempt himself.

i actually thought that on thursday when the cheney news came out.

i mean, what the hell was bush going to do--say yes, dick is being a dick? no. and for his office to be in compliance while cheney's isn't would look just too pussy-whipped. so, cheney forced his hand and bush had to say he didn't have to comply either. (because they're SPECIAL!)

When Dana was being so mealy-mouthed at the press conference that she made absolutely NO sense, even in the circular-reasoning/firing arena, I pretty much knew that neither * or Dick(head) were complying.

Well, then. We've got nothing to worry about!

That Cheney and now Bush are opposed to oversight on how they handle and store classified materials?

What reason could they possibly have for not cooperating with this oversight on such an important matter? We all know by now that they improperly manhandled classified information regarding Valerie Plame and Brewster Jennings for political purposes but they skated on that unfortunately. What could they be attempting to hide now?

And another thing, Cheney's suggestion to abolish the office that conducts this oversight when he got called out for his refusal to cooperate is totally out of control.

Something is very seriously wrong here. This is blatant disrespect for our system of government from the highest office in the nation.

Every doc gets a number. It is a paper trail. If they start shredding secrets and there is an archival audit of those secrets, the shredding will be obvious. I conclude that they intend to start the shredding real soon. Anyone seen Ollie North and Fawn Hall lately? EO 12958 was intended to make that bullshit a bit more difficult.

I hope the Congress acts swiftly to counter this.

And another thing, Cheney's suggestion to abolish the office that conducts this oversight when he got called out for his refusal to cooperate is obstruction of justice.
Impeach already!!!!

The arrogance and hubris in this whole thing is astonishing.

Welcome to DU!

not quite? Ok then everything is alright, I'll go back to sleep.

see we don't have camps and nobody has been taken from the streets in the dead of night (the latter that they know off)

Go back to sleep

:-)

Holy shit.

see where his tie is and the edge of his jacket? It absolutely not an accident that it is showing

What did you expect? If the Congress is unable to stop Dick Cheney, a VP, how are they going to stop George Bush? The executive branch is sodomizing our Constitution and they'll keep doing it until someone stops them.

You know, anyone who goes to see the original Declaration of Independence or even the U.S. Constitution, knows that the ink is fading, and that seems to be a perfectly good metaphor for our times, because as the ink fades, so does the strength of the words.

I don't even ask for it to be put back the way it was completely...just give it back!

Damn it, I think I have to look for an "IMPEACH" bumper sticker this weekend and write a few (probably useless) letters to (craven) congresscritters.

I feel sick and trampled on...

Its a natural progression I suppose for them, after so many years without any checks and balances. Its logical for them to think the can do anything they want at this point, after all, nobody is stopping them.

except the terrorist nuke attack. Got to save something for the 4th.

He's exempt from a "presidential" order??? Wasn't that the whole purpose of him issuing a "presidential" order?? And now he'll choose to ignore his own said order??? More and more, the Administration's policies resemble those of a place called Bizzaroworld!!!

Why have laws at all??? I call on Congress to impeach these two fuckers now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Madness! :grr:

WTF

Bush and Cheney are saying that they are not part of the Executive Branch?? Well of course they are not! They were never Elected in the first place! So now they are telling the truth. I think that We The People should just march on down to The White House and pull bush and friends out of Our White House, arrest them for Impersonating to be the President and Vice President of The United States of America.:shrug:

I'm smelling something coming down the road - something.

I find it interesting that this is all coming out at the same time as the CIA dump. There's a war going on right now and it's not just in Iraq - it's in our own government.

Sometimes it's hard to know who's who, but one thing's for sure - in all that old CIA stuff - Poppy was neck high in ALL OF IT! Could this be why he's been crying so much lately in public? Was he blackmailed about it? Inquiring minds want to know. Too bad we don't have a 24 hour Cable Truth Network!

Everyday when I get up...the news is worse. NOTHING surprises me with this bunch any more. Yet...just when ya think they can't possibly overstep anymore than they have...they do. A deadly game of "Can you top this?" I hate these bastards...

:hi:

i feel i should disclose that i fervently believe that unless america wakes up and impeaches this "president", we have died as a nation based on representative democracy. decisions are now made in the beltway, not by the representatives of the people, but by power grabbing cynics who mock our system.

the Senate were possible, but I'd rather build a case against him and have him sitting in the WH basement, neutered and unable to do harm to the nation. He can be tried for crimes after he leaves office, but w/o conviction in the Senate, impeachment is a essentially a waste of time.

Impeaching him would make a point, take up a lot of time, and the Senate would exonerate him. Even if many R's could be convinced that conviction would be the right thing, cheney would have to impeached as well...that means Pelosi would ascend to the presidency. There is no way the R's are going to allow that to happen...conviction is out of the question.

After the toad gets out of office, all kinds of criminal action can be dealt with. There is no provision for "protection" from crimes once he is out of office...Let the Games Begin...:D

The Chimperor does not "intend" any of the laws to apply to himself!!!

We knew this was so, he just wasn't forced to say it explicitly before!

:rofl:

:mad:

Be the start of an angry mob.

The Bushits must be stopped

"Laws" includes those he makes. The oversight agency oversees the faithful executionof the laws. The oversight agency is a check on the president's fulfilling his promise to execute those laws. Perhaps Congress needs to investigate to see whether new laws -- passed by the legislature which has delegated its authority to make these regulations to the executive -- need to be amended or whether new laws need to be enacted to protect national security from leaks by the president and vice-president.

According to the letter sent by William Leonard to Addington, he writes

"...I recently received a written complaint suggesting that the Office of the Vice President (OVP) is 'willfully violating' a provision of the Order and of "Classified National Security Information Directive No. 1' (32 CFR Part 2001) (the Directive), which implements the Order. The specific concern is with respect to the failure of the OVP to 'report annually to the Director of the Information Security Oversight Office statistics related to its security classification program' in accordance with section 2001.80 of the Directive."

PDF file link: http://www.fas.org/sgp/isoo/isoo-ag.pdf

Here's 2001.80 of the Directive:


http://www.archives.gov/isoo/policy-documents/eo-12958-implementing-directive.html#2001.40

According to your OP:



According to the EO that Bush issued in March 2003:


http://www.archives.gov/isoo/policy-documents/eo-12958-amendment.html#1.1


5 U.S.C. 105 defines "Executive agency" as:



The same U.S.C. defines an "Executive department" as:



The same U.S.C. defines a "Government corporation" as:



and it defines an "independent establishment" as:




See for definitions: http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode05/usc_sup_01_5_10_I_30_1.html

According to that website, "The most recent edit of Title 5 of the US Code was released by the Law Revision Counsel - LRC - ( http://uscode.house.gov/) of the U.S. House of Representative on 2007-04-17...and most recently processed by the Legal Information Institute on Wed Apr 18 04:25:12 2007"

So, according to the definitions referred to in the EO Bush signed, the OVP nor the President's office (Frotto: "agencies ... did not include the two executive offices...") is included.

Is this how Bush and Cheney are claiming they are exempt????

This is driving me nuts trying to find their logic -- and mind you this is Addington's doing.

edited to add link

The rule in question is not Congressional legislation but a presidential directive. Who else but the president should get to interpret its meaning?

Which does not mean Congress cannot ENACT legislation that puts the president's office under this kind of oversight.

Hint, hint.

"It does take a little bit of inference," Fratto said..

or a little bit of putting your head up your ass.

my head's going to explode.

"uncle", already. now can we please go back to that other reality - the one where Gore's been President for the past 6 years?

thank you, man that was scary.

Sure looks like it to me. WHEN are we going to overthrow those maniacs?

on this board

According to some folks, NOPE, not even close

Aparently we need camps and the SS showing at the door and disapearing them personally

Never mind most folks still believe they are free... where have I seen that one before?

TIC-TOC, TIC-TOC

GREAT MOVIE, MAKE BEFORE BUSH INTEFADA

and you know what that means. Bush and Cheney no longer work for the American people.

and when they leaked her name, which was TREASON and against national security. Now they are trying to cover their lilly white asses.

THEY ARE OUT OF CONTROL ---- I will harp on this to my congressman, and my senators. I hope you ALL do the same and whatever brainstorming you can do. We can help put an end to this shadow gov't by forcing them into the light. It's not right they make decisions w/o a couple members of an oversight committee in Congress knowing what's going on - they're ELECTED (purportedly) OFFICIALS and are not kings.

www.cafepress.com/warisprofitable <<-- check it out, top '08 stuff

action! :shrug:
Wasn't one of his first acts in power to stop the release of Raygun & Poppy's records?

Of all the things to set it off... Emmanuel is already talking about defunding Office of VP, maybe they'll defund the President.

Batten down the hatches, get the cats in and bar the door 'cos if we ever had a chance for impeachment, this is it.

the Plame scandal that he expected to see Cheney/Bush do a frog march. The WH are seems to be in a crisis mode. Just Cheney's disclaimer would have been a bizarre event, but now both of them makes one think that something seriously is going on, like, perhaps, the canary is threatening to sing?

If Cheney goes, Bush loses his power. All power comes from Cheney's shadow government. That's how Cheney set it up.