Are you kidding me??? The Tahoe fire has jumped the fire line and

now another entire subdivision of dozens of homes is threatened at this hour.

Things are suddenly completely out of control again.

Sigh.


http://www.news10.net/display_story.aspx?storyid=29590

I'm really sorry to hear that, for everyone involved.

really picked up.

Our forests are so screwed up. They haven't been allowed to burn, so there is way too much undergrowth and deadwood. When the do catch, they burn so much hotter than they should that even people who prepared their property aren't protected. Just a shame, all the way around. Truly healthy forests don't end up like nuke zones.

simple equation.

just like I have no sympathy for people who build on a flood plain, or on the shore in hurricane areas or on the slopes of volcanoes.

cave the past couple of days?


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x1176182

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x1183996

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x1185749

Most of us do have sympathy for those in the way of the fire.

Don't let the heartless ones among us get to you. :hug:

My boyfriend had a house fire- just a plain old fire- about 8 years ago and rarely does a day go by when he doesn't mention something that "burnt up in the fire." It's very sad for anyone to go through this, no matter the circumstances.

I repeat if you build in the woods you will get burned out...no ifs or maybes...its a when.

personal responsibility is something to live by not just mouth around.

Nature isnt something you put in a box and look at because it pleases you. Its wild and it will kill you given the chance. Silly city people move in and get angry about so many things... fi fi got eaten by a coyote, I built in a forest and now a fires on the way, I love animals but I'll still participate in the destruction of natural areas by buying my mcmansion in what used to be prime wild life areas.

sorry zippo on the sympathy for the humans... the animals on the other hand...

Give you something to do. And unplug it first, remember, you won't get any sympathy because you knew the risks.

:hug:

:D

Nice dodge.

We have bush because some of us are capable of saying "sorry your house burnt down" "sorry firefighter you got hurt fighting that fire"? I think we have bush because enough of you don't care about others, only about yourselves.

why are there houses in a place that burns with frequency?
why will they be allowed to rebuild in the same area/

because the public as a whole doesnt ask the tough questions and doesnt want to hear real answers. they want to be placated and want to feel good about themselves.

same thing with bushco. we play nice and dont ask the tough questions and continue to accept the status quo without dealing with the underpinnings of the reality we have created.

People have lost homes, many people from a wide range of economic backgrounds. Firefighters are endangered fighting this fire. Can you see at all any sort of connection with any of these people? If you cannot, you are no better than those working for egotistical purposes and ruining this country.

they deserve all the respect and honor we can give them. I specifically am talking about the structures that humans are building in wildfire areas.

if the structures werent there the firefighters would have to save them would they? they could firebreaks in more appropriate and safer places to contain the fire.

that is what the OP says. Also "Things are suddenly completely out of control again"

You reply "no sympathy here. you build in the woods your gonna get a fire sometime."

Perhaps you missed the point of this posting. Perhaps you just don't care.

there was an article posted in Editorials recently that discusses how having homes in wilderness areas adds an extra burden to firefighters when they are battling fires in wilderness areas.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=103x289943

It's worth reading.

2 issues.

1) There are reasons for fires, reasons fires have been so bad, and yes I can see having homes being an extra burden, whether in woods or in city. Sometimes homes need to be let burn to protect lives. It is going to happen more and more, as forests regain their more natural fire burning status. I live in the wood, grown up after being clearcut 50 yrs ago. It is an overgrown mess and we made a big clearing around our house, but recognize that it could burn also. We have emergency plans so if a fire comes up at night, where do we go, so forth. A lot of forests are a mess.

2) But I still can feel bad for people whose homes have burnt.

I'll give you a couple of examples right now. {{SEARCHING}}

Here's the story, in case you had your head in the sand:

Boy dies after being hit by large limb
Last Update: Jun 25, 2007 7:43 AM

PORTLAND, Ore. (AP) - A five-year-old Tigard boy who was hit by a large limb that fell 30 feet from a tree has died at a Portland hospital.

The boy, Ethan Hansen, was in a tent with five other children at Elks Park in rural Canby when the limb, weighing hundreds of pounds, fell on it Thursday night.

It took two adults to move the limb. The boy was taken to Legacy Emanuel Hospital where he died Saturday evening.
--

So, who is to blame when a 200 lb. limb falls on one child in a tent below, leaving others with minor injuries?

I can't imagine you really give a SH** about anybody except yourself.

Prove me wrong.

Radio Lady in Oregon

it sucks big time....for the family and everybody involved. it was a total accident.

I cant even imagine what the family is going through especially having such a random freakish thing happen.

Right? So why no compassion, no sympathy for people who have lost their homes? even for a moment?

But I digress.

Brought up in the Lounge a few nights ago. Read it and weep -- no more gardening (or golf)... I was brought up in Dade County, Florida.

Lightning kills man beneath cloudless sky
A Dade (County) landscaper died after being struck by an unusual type of
lightning that's stronger, hotter, lasts longer and strikes from clear skies.

Miami Herald
Posted on Fri, Jun. 22, 2007
By TERE FIGUERAS NEGRETE AND LUISA YANEZ

With no rain or even clouds to warn him of the danger, death came literally out of the blue Thursday to a self-employed landscaper. The killer was a powerful bolt of lightning that cracked through perfectly clear skies. David Canales, 41, of West Miami-Dade, was on the job at a Pinecrest home when the bolt hit. It first seared a tree, then traveled and struck Canales, standing nearby.

Experts said Canales was killed by a weather phenomenon fittingly called a ''bolt from the blue'' or ''dry lightning'' because it falls from clear, blue skies. He was pronounced dead at South Miami Hospital. Canales is the latest victim of one of Florida's least enviable honors: It's the country's lightning capital. Five of the 47 people killed by lightning across the country last year were in Florida.

Dan Dixon, a meteorologist with the National Weather Service in Miami, said that when Canales was hit, a typical afternoon storm was forming but nowhere near the area. Weather data showed that lightning activity picked up north of Pinecrest shortly before 1 p.m., as a storm gathered momentum and swept through Coral Gables and then downtown.

''Most lightning will come from the base of a thunderstorm, inside that rain-shaft area,'' Dixon explained. ``But occasionally, what we call a bolt from the blue comes out of a thunderstorm still several miles away.'' The fair-weather bolts pack a bigger, deadlier punch and form differently. Most lightning bolts carry a negative charge, but ''bolts from the blue'' have a positive charge, carry as much as 10 times the current, are hotter and last longer.

The bolts normally travel horizontally away from the storm and reach farther than typical lightning, then curve to the ground. This bolt struck the front yard of a home at 10500 SW 62nd Ave. ''My wife said the sky was blue, but the lightning bolt was the most horrible sound she had heard in her life,'' said Clemente Vazquez-Bello, owner of the home where Canales and two workers had come to do landscaping.

more: http://www.miamiherald.com/460/story/147572.html?from=r...

everywhere has a problem, everywhere is the possibility of danger, have to have some compassion. Did you read the bit where this is why bushco is in power? Emotions. Is Mt. Hood active these days?

He was adorable, and so excited about starting kindergarten this year. I can't stop crying and tomorrow I will go to my local WaMu branch and make a donation in Ethan's honor, since his family had no health or other insurance. Such a tragedy, it boggles my mind. The enormity of that tragedy is overwhelming, and I thank you for putting it in this context. My heart still aches for the Prineville Hot Shots who were killed in the fire in Colorado back in 1993 (hope I'm recalling the date correctly). And the people in the Columbia Gorge whose houses were swept away in the floods of 1996...I'm thinking they probably weren't to blame because their houses had been there for generations and hey...sometimes storms (and fires and other SH**) just happens. Those of us who are not caught in the midst of such tragedies can count our blessings, but to have no sympathy for those who are...well, again, my mind is boggled.

You are wonderful, Radio Lady. I've enjoyed your blog and one of these days I'll catch your show on OPB!

Blessings.

I didn't read the full story about Ethan because I've been busy taking medical tests in Clackamas, OR. But now that's finished. The local Washington Mutual will get a check from me, also.

The closest I've been to a calamity was in hurricanes in the 1940s and 1950s in Miami. My father was the vice-mayor of our town. One of the neighboring streets to ours had several roofs ripped off. The rest of the houses were standing. I remember walking into one woman's home. In her large and beautifully furnished front room, her grand piano was sitting in three feet of water. Everything was ruined.

I was fifteen years old. I'll never forget that day.

I guess that's where you are most comfortable.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

we all have friends who have lost everything at one time or another. so get off the holier than thou kick.

why are they allowed to build in a forest fire prone area?

why are they going to be allowed to rebuild in the same area?


ask the real questions instead of the fluff ones.

nobody is dead and personal effects can be replaced with insurance companies that overcharge us to pay for places like this.

Their homes just burnt, memories are lost, people have gotten hurt, people are in danger, firefighters are in danger fighting this. Yet you don't care. Right now I care. You don't. Not very progressive to not care, even short term. If you cannot care, even short term, I have no use for you and hope someday you find it within yourself to care, to have some compassion for others. Even for a moment.

How could anyone be upset that their home burned to the ground when personal effects can be replaced by insurance companies?

:shrug: MKJ

Hey, what about all those settlers who built homes in the forest before there were cities. They had fires too but of course it was their fault they built homes in fire prone areas. That and those pesky Indians. Yep, don't build in the forest because if the fire don't get you your scalp will be got.

Go tell your momma to make you a PB sandwich and play your video games. Leave serious discussions to adults.

to feel people deserve to lose their homes.

You're a nut.

...and you're wearing blinders. Don't you know, children are dying in Iraq as you and I type...in fact, children are dying in slums around the world from malnutrition and bad water + genocide in droves while Americans get fat and comfortable. And I say that as a fat, comfortable American because denying the truth breeds ignorance in droves.

http://www.radicalurbantheory.com/mdavis/letmalibuburn.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Davis_%28scholar%29

Besides, you're not really a progressive in the true sense, you sound much more like a LIBERAL (gasp)!.

How do you feel about the firefighters who are risking their lives Right Now? Two of them are lucky they weren't burned or killed when they were "burned over" just a little while ago.

http://www.nevadaappeal.com/article/20070626/NEWS01/70626001

go away kid ya bother me.

If people did not build where there was risk of:

Flooding

Earthquake

Hurricane/Tornado

Forest fire

Tsunamis

Blizzards

Drought

and now,

Terrorist attack (large city)

people would have nowhere to live.

We should all kill our wretched selves right now, in that case.


But maybe not. Maybe some of us will show compassion for our brothers and sisters on this planet rather than blaming them for the circumstances which cause them to suffer where they live in their particular area of risk.

And some of us will be thoughtless hypocrites and stand in our area of risk and point fingers and show no sympathy.

Looks like you've chosen, "kid."

who was trying to go into a building to save his cats and got arrested. The cognitive dissonance here on DU lately is as bad as that 'other place'....
:eyes:

:thumbsup::popcorn:

of course, I feel for all who've lost anything.

BUT!

THis is nature. In Colorado, there are requirements for some mountain communities to have some fire safety measures- ie: cutting trees too close to house, having a fire ring, using certain building materials, etc.

The fact is- nature is nature. And of course, it is beautiful to have a home in this environment. But is it wise? And we're infringing on our animal neighbors and expecting them to move or to behave differently than their nature.

The fact is, Mother Nature always wins.

Most places have the potential for some sort disaster. Mudslides, tsunamis, rain, hail, etc etc etc. Of course things happen, but decent people say "gee that's too bad" or just don't bother saying something bad.

Greensburg, Kansas.

Didn't they know they were at risk of a massive tornado wiping out their city.

I have no sympathy for people who choose to live in Tornado Alley. :sarcasm:

It never ends.

land of woods and fire and I see first hand when city idiots move into the woods and what happens to the areas these mcmansions take over. It becomes a frickin ecological desert.

if I build in the woods I expect to get burnt out at sometime and make plans accordingly.

this is due to poor planning and needs to be dealt with at the core level of our society.

"they" build in the woods and deserve what they get.
"you" build in the woods and if your house burns down you at least had good planning.

Another one who thinks all those people are wealthy in big homes and deserve to lose everything cause oh boy, they are rich and you hate them.

dormant -- the officials say Oregon is overdue for a 9.0 Richter scale earthquake.

Do you know that? Where I do my radio show -- is between two substantial faults -- one in the west hills and the other on the east side of the Willamette River. The buildings are on filled land... God help us if they go. Also, were you here in the 1995-96 floods? We haven't moved here yet... still lost in Massachusetts where the snow could bury people rather easily -- and caused hundreds of deaths in the Blizzard of 1978

Anyway, we live far from the river, at 500 ft., but I have insisted in carrying earthquake insurance.

If you're in eastern Oregon, maybe you forgot how much of that land burned to the ground a few years ago.

So, have you NEVER experienced anything that stirred your emotions? Can you look in the face of a poor child, dirty, unkempt, selling Chiclets in Mexico, weaving rugs at age 9 in Egypt?

Because if you haven't, I would say that borders on some kind of illness. COLD, UNEMOTIONAL, MAYBE RUTHLESS?

But, then, again, I'm not a doctor or a psychiatrist, although I frequently speak to such people on the radio...

Warm regards,

Radio Lady in Oregon

I'm very glad you're not a doctor cause you over emotional attachment to structures and consumer products would get someone killed.

No, I am not in Lake Oswego and "the other side" is actually where? You mean east of the Willamette River?

You show me yours and I'll show you mine.

humans are very egotistical and short sited.... they build in places that have time and again been destroyed by re-occuring natural disasters.

its like the old child game "stop hitting yourself"

So now you are saying that everyone who got their homes burnt deserves no sympathy because they built "in places that time and again been destroyed by re-occuring natural disasters." Guess you feel the same way about Greensburg, Kansas. Well, I hope you get more sympathy if something ever happens to you.

This site anyways.

edited for typo to make marginally more sense

I also read stupid lol!

Oregon is a big place. It's been hit by fire, floods, windstorms, volcanoes.

You're not cooperating with this inquiry by not telling us YOUR PARTICULAR history. I'm just glad you're not my parent, my child, or any supposed friend or relative of mine.

So.... I believe we're dealing with a verbal fire-starter, folks. That's it.

Good night and good luck.

Radio Lady in Oregon
---

Personally, my heart goes out to any and all people who have lost their homes to fire near Lake Tahoe, California.

wow.

Well, i guess that fella had better up and tell ya, hadnt he? Or you might put a cigarette out in his eye, eh?

Inquiry. Sheesh. Radio Lady, i was almost with ya.

These threads fascinate me. Truly. Emotions run so high it is astounding.

so little "milk of human kindness" to show to people who have lost everything they have in a fire or other disaster. To know that a person like that actually lives in this relatively liberal state is even more upsetting.

But, I'm showered, in my nightgown, and I have to watch my little grandson tonight.

So, I'll just exit left <---------- quietly and without emotion.

Radio Lady in Oregon

PS. You're right about emotions on the Internet. They do run high. You've heard about AIRLINE RAGE, right? I do think there is something called INTERNET RAGE. Mostly, I try to stay away from it.

Where do you live that is free from any kind of natural threats? Utopia?

I've survived several of them. We also have lightning that occasionally strikes out of a calm, blue sky.

Where I grew up, and where my sister still lives, we have earthquakes. The last time I visited her, we had several strong enough to rattle the dishes and knock books off shelves.

Where my mother lived, they have mudslides, earthquakes and forest fires: a small mountain town that's existed for centuries.

Where my nephew lives has earthquakes and the rare tsunami.

My point: there ain't no safe place. You live where you have to, and take sensible precautions - storm-cellars, tie-downs, fire-breaks. Avoid particularly hazardous locales, like barrier reefs - governments and municipalities can support this by zoning and enforcing strict construction standards. And hope that when disaster strikes, your fellow citizens will give you a helping hand, because it could happen to them as well. And if they can't be helpful, let them at least be sympathetic.

After all, you have a stove or furnace in your house, "your" gonna get a fire sometime. Simple equation.

Idiot.

seriously though I dont expect any sympathy if I do something stupid like leaving my stove on with a pan of grease on it or putting oil rags near my furnaces. That is exactly what all these people did...they built in the forest. which does what? come on you can say it. they burn and they burn with frequency. now what happens when you have a house that can burn down in the woods that frequently burn down?

Remember, NO SYMPATHY!

and feel sympathy for you even though your posts are lacking even one scintilla of compassion.

What on earth are they doing here?

were these same people saying the same things about Katrina victims or the people that were in the WTC and the planes when it happened?

Very nice. And not just one or two or always the same ones, but many. Nice.

We're all going to be punished for expressing our rage.

Most of our posts are going to be deleted, but the asshole's will remain.

Just watch.

And he loves apostrophes.
:-)

if they get mugged - they so had it coming to them. :sarcasm::eyes::sarcasm:

:thumbsdown:

They knew the risks when they got behind the wheel. :sarcasm:

They knew the inevitability of death.

Yeah, the jerks!

:spray:

They don't deserve sympathy either :sarcasm:

Oh, and my grandpa in Oklahoma because of tornadoes, family members in California with earthquakes, and so on and so on and so on.

*sigh*

you're going to get fire sometimes:


Above is the Great Chicago Fire.

then cry like little babies when people move into the wilderness, floodplain riverbanks, etc. and get bit by Mother Nature and whine when Big Brother doesn't do enough to restore their lifestyle. There's probably a name for this in the DSM but I haven't committed it to memory. Yet.

such things as forest fires are inevitable and should be expected evokes ire and hatred from a lot of people who
type out a lot of faux empathy and do nothing to actually help the people they're so very 'concerned' about.

The stench of hypocrisy is not limited to the GOPers.

What is going on here now is people expressing sympathy about the fire getting out of control again.

If you want to start a topic about fires being natural, forests being mismanaged and leading to the inevitablity of severe fires, go ahead. But deriding people expressing sympathy for doing so, insulting DUers like you did, that is uncalled for here.

"You'll discover, if you haven't yet, many DUers claim to be 'environmentalists' then cry like little babies when people move into the wilderness, floodplain riverbanks, etc. and get bit by Mother Nature and whine when Big Brother doesn't do enough to restore their lifestyle. There's probably a name for this in the DSM but I haven't committed it to memory. Yet."

is an insult in many ways and uncalled for.

...

"many DUers ... whine when Big Brother doesn't do enough to restore their lifestyle."

If this is a fact, then you should be able to prove it.

Which, actually, and perhaps to your surprise, I think BB has NOT done nearly enough to help. But I have this deep dark suspicion that the Lake Tahoe area isn't populated by poor black folks. I could be wrong, though.
What do you think?

"many DUers ... whine when Big Brother doesn't do enough to restore their lifestyle."
"Not an insult, a simple statement of fact. Sorry if you don't like facts."

WTF does NO have to do with proving this "fact"? Prove that thing you say is "fact" :"many DUers ... whine when Big Brother doesn't do enough to restore their lifestyle."

Sorry.

Didn't think you could. Bye.

Your sensibilities will be much more appreciated, there......

I fart in your general direction.

That doesn't mean I don't care about the environment, but I care about the environment because I know doing so will help people.

to protect itself from unnecessary encroachment from the human cancer. How amusing, you just made my point for me, thank you! :toast:

When it comes right down to it, I root for the trees :)

wait and you'll find out just how true this is.

Show me who. I have seen no whining that "Big Brother doesn't do enough", but only sympathy given.

:cry: :sarcasm:

Woe is me! Woe is me! What shall I do without Big Brother?

tsk tsk tsk.

;-)

I don't understand the phenomenon.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

My home sits about 75 yards from an un-leveed river. When I bought it, I accepted the fact that it would flood one day. I have no problem with that, and will not whine when it happens.

I tend to agree with the OP upthread in that people claim to "love" nature, and then move to more natural areas, thereby facilitating its destruction. Building a subdivision in a forest is just as environmentally devastating as clearcutting or stripmining that same land. Increased pollutant runoff, destruction of the natural fauna, noise pollution, and alteration of natural waterways and ground drainage turns most forest housing developments into sterile, tree covered wastelands. It should not be permitted (before anyone attacks me for being a hypocrite, my land was cleared for agriculture in the 1800's and was subdivided in the 1940's, long before I was born).

Unlike the OP upthread, I'm not totally unsympathetic to their loss. Still, them being burned out by fire is just as inevitable as me being flooded out one of these days. It's part of the risk we take to live in areas that nobody with an ounce of common sense would consider living in.

expressing glee that something bad has happened. I hadn't used the words "they deserved it" but I'm willing to state the bare fact that they shouldn't be surprised when it happens. There are a lot of DUers with hyper-tuned sensibilities.

Just mention that fire happens in the forest and you're accused of not being sensitive to the plight of those that have lost their homes, etc.

I still wish the best for the firefighters that have been flown in there to save more houses and real estate and get the fire under control. They're the ones we should be thinking about.

Protecting the fiduciary interests of the ruling class. (I'm not being sarcastic in case anyone's wondering)
;-)

snip

This is the worst fire I can recall," Lovell said of the 2,000-acre blaze that is still burning out of control as of 10:30 p.m. Sunday night. "It just shows you the power of this. It is heartbreaking. It is absolutely heartbreaking. We've got Lake Valley firefighters who are fighting the fire and who have lost their own homes."

http://www.nevadaappeal.com/article/20070625/NEWS/106250094

with an endangered ecosystem at the same time.

And that kind of pathology is called, being able to hold more than one idea at the same time.

:nopity:

Because if the area you live in has ever had an earthquake, wildfire, mudslide, tornado, hurricane, flood, drought, etc...you're at risk of looking like a hypocritical ass. Just sayin'.

all the fools that decide to live where nature exists.

that is clever, rollin eyes.

.. because they drive cars?


Same fucking logic.


A natural disaster can happen anywhere.. loss is loss regardless. Your lack of compassion for anyone who just lost everything is disgusting.

"just like I have no sympathy for people who build on a flood plain, or on the shore in hurricane areas or on the slopes of volcanoes."

Name me ONE place in the entire god damn country that is immune from the ravages of nature - tornadoes, hurricanes, floods, blizzards/ice storms, fire, earthquake, anything. ONE place.

You're full of shit and you're a soulless ghoul to boot.

to reach zero population growth. Or even negative population growth.

If not, people are going to keep spreading out and building more places to live. That includes spreading into trees, onto floodplains, etc..

I guess we could make sure all the trees are cut down before building more housing. :sarcasm:

If we invested in more regular controlled burns to reduce underbrush and prevent the buildup of fuel on the forest floor, wildfires would be much less frequent. We're doing some, but not enough.

Having lived in the foothills above a floodplain for a few decades before moving to where I am now, I can tell you that there is a little more to the story than "people" building on flood plains.

My old community was in the desert. We could go months and years with very little rain. The valley floor was a flood plain. Flat and crossed with dry creeks.

"People" didn't build there. Developers did. Developers...corporations that build housing tracts. They'd move in, give the city council a sweet deal, build on the flood plain, and be long gone 2 or 3 years later when we got a real rain and the houses flooded. While we rarely got rain, when we did, it fell all at once and street flooding was common. I got stranded at work several times over the years, unable to get out of the parking lot onto streets running like rivers. Housing built before the big housing boom that started in the 80s recognized the problem, and building pads were raised above the street line.

When the big housing boom came in, and there was money to be made by throwing up housing tracts everywhere one would fit, this little detail was forgotten. It took a couple of decades of flooding and lawsuits before the city council decided to put in some infrastructure to drain off rain water and prevent flooding.


I flew over that valley in small planes regularly, being the wife of a private pilot. After a rain, the entire valley floor was covered with standing water. It didn't stop the developers. They weren't going to live there.

My point is that greed, corruption, and a constantly expanding population make building in less than ideal areas happen.

Of course, some of us live "in the woods" just because we like it here. We like trees better than people. We're used to paying attention during fire season, and standing ready to evacuate if necessary.

Wildfires were common in my old area, too. You see, the foothills above the floodplains were covered with manzanita, juniper, sage, and other highly flammable brush. I had friends down the road who acted as the evacuation center for horses, mules, goats, etc.; once, even a couple of camels. Whenever we were on fire watch, we'd gather there to help care for all the evacuees, and to watch the fire-fighting efforts.

What about people who build houses on Mars....oh, the aliens will eat them alive, right? Just like your logic then.

& hoped to have it contained by then. Weather reports now predicting winds up to 20 mph tomorrow. Not good.

it's going to be a bad summer, firewise.

I know I've been getting more than enough lately.
:hug: Good luck.

no how until what maybe November?

i am so sorry for the people there.

i noticed when i met w. some of the victims of the 2003 san diego fires that they had the same thousand yard stare that we do in new orleans this time of century

i hope the fire is quickly contained, this is truly terrifying

it's still light out, but the smoke has made everything dark, and there is orange glow everywhere.

Positive thoughts to all the firefighters and people ivolved in this.

All these people losing their homes and everything they had for years . some I heard lived there for 40 years .

There are fires suddenly breaking out all over CA .

My heart goes out to all of these people , I saw many of them sitting in some building and all looked in shock .

I don't have much but if it all went up in flames it would be devestating to say the least let alone losing your home .

I can't imagine anyone not being able to put themselves in these peoples places and not understand how horrible this must be .

to the firefighters as well as the homeowners!

I, too, thought they were gaining on it, this is very sad news. I hope all are able to evacuate.


I have read the cold, heartless comments of some and have found it disgusting but not surprising, sadly.

Probably works at one of the casinos for not much money, but to hell with her.

when people were finding out the status of their homes, it was heartbreaking.

Plenty of yucks, loss, terror and heartbreak!

:sarcasm:

fire breaks.

They say that it actually saved countless homes, despite the huge number that burned.

Fire officials say not enough people are clearing pine needles from their gutters and clearing a defensible space around their home.

Although, this was a firestorm with furious, erratic winds which forced the fire to crown and it just engulfed everything.

They say had the winds been the way they were yesterday, the fire would have been a quick mention in the news, instead of a national story.

"Fire officials say not enough people are clearing pine needles from their gutters and clearing a defensible space around their home."

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

:eyes:

Jeezusfuckingchrist, it was YOUR quote...and you don't understand it?
:wtf:

at not making your point clear. Entertaining.

to watch the suffering on the news.

:wtf:

I don't get it.

to have their houses burned down. I have NOT seen any such posts. If you can point me to one, I will gladly criticize whoever said it. What -has- been pointed out, repeatedly, is that when people invade the wilderness they ought to be willing to accept the concomitant risks and not expect the public at large to subsidize what sure as hell looks like a fairly extravagant if not irresponsible choice. You've said enough to make it clear you love the 'wild' but you seem to have absolutely no problem with humans wrecking it by occupying it. You cannot have it both ways.

If they couldn't be bothered to clean out the gutters or clear out the underbrush by the house, tough shit. I guess the Guatemalan gardeners were too busy to take care of those little chores.
:grr:

how ineffectual they were. I guess some people will be happy when every square foot of forest is occupied by a house and all the other animals are extinct. What a wonderful world.
edit to mention there won't BE any forest...or oxygen.
:eyes:

MrUP talks about managing the woods and I would like to go do some thinning, let sunlight get through the overcrowded trees, talk with a forestry friend who knows about managing forests for their sake, not human's, but otherwise just let it be. I wish I had more to let be.

We bought it precisely to -prevent- somebody from putting half a dozen trailers and creating even more overcrowding.
A guy was trying to get it and do that but we found out about it and bought it before he could do it. The property is a small island of wildlife - deer, foxes, rabbits, armadillos, turtles, etc. snakes too. It's a microcosm of the general area.
We cleared just enough to keep a buffer around the house in case of fire (hardly likely, it's been raining every day this month) but that's the idea. I know you think I'm an asshole because I can't muster up a jupiterian sack of sympathy for people who don't appear to have the will to minimize their exposure to the inevitable forest fires that are not only probable but even necessary for the health of the forest. Look, 'conservatives' don't have many positions I can sympathize with but one I do agree with is the concept of personal responsibility to the degree one is able to accept them.

Not every victim was rich with "Guatemalan gardeners" to begin with, and even so, why do you feel the need to invade every thread about this fire with the reasons people shouldn't feel bad for these folks?

If you don't like that, take it up with someone who cares about what you think.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

I won't sleep for days.
:eyes:

I had no idea you had so little regard for me. Ciao.

Well, whatever...

Forget about it entirely, you won't hear from me again. You care as much about online relationships as you do about fire victims, evidently the internet is just your graffiti wall.

I'm a pretty transparent guy...I use my real name here (and did on Yahoo...and for years on Fidonet) and I just say what I mean. Not that I expect everyone to agree with me but hey, we're all entitled to our opinions, aren't we? The only 'relationship' I actually care about is the one I have here at home in real life...and I know I piss off people online but that's my mission! (Not really, but it seems to be the result...I look at stuff logically and that's poison to some..)

You already said you don't care what I think, and just now you made it clear that the people on DU don't matter to you. We are not "real" to you. So goodbye.

As for being "real", I don't think there really are any blue bears on the planet. Are you ashamed of who you are?

Are you suggesting I don't have the right to do that? Feel free to bitch at me but it would have a lot more meaning if you managed to come up with something with a little substance.

That sounds awfully close to something I would expect to hear from Bush or Alberto. Maybe DU needs a "First Amendment Zone" where anyone who dissents from the official line (established by...who, exactly?) must be banished to. Hmmm?

As to what ails me, according to my FAA flight physical, last week, nearsightedness. "Are you queer" isn't on the form I have to fill out. Yet.

You know, whenever I see you do this on a thread I think, "How sad."

This is how you spend your life, arguing with people who are obviously upset?

And they are upset because they live somewhere or love someone who lives somewhere where there has been a terrible tragedy.

Do you bring anatomy textbooks to funerals so you can explain the disease the deceased died of and give advice on how the idiot could have avoided death?

What a trip.

A) being sympathetic, saying "that's too bad", feeling compassion for someone's loss, accepting and expressing compassion that sometimes bad thing happen.

AND
B) Feeling the need to solve someone's problems, fix what went wrong, have BB "restore their lifestyle", having no personal responsibility for anything that happens to you.

of those that burned down.
What do you think?

I would try to summon up some sympathy for him on a human level. And if I couldn't? I'd stay out of the thread and keep my venom to myself.

I'm not kidding. Did you notice how savaged I got over my protest about the guy who tried to rescue his kitties from a part of a building that was burning and was jailed? DUers are about the most felineophilic group on the planet and I got shat on for suggesting the guy should have been left alone when he went in to save them.

:eyes:

crosses on their property pretty much makes that clear.

Your repeated comments that you don't feel sorry for these people is a thinly veiled way of saying, "burn baby burn."

Everyone knows that,

And I'm such a superior individual, I can find it in my heart to feel sorry for people who are "wrecking the forest," a contention on your part that I reject.

So if a moose moves into your kitchen, you would just be tickled fucking pink, right?
I think you're having an LSD moment. Or week.

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

...

give it a rest.

Nice.

He's just being consistent. :)

Studies have shown both ways, that helmets help prevent injuries, and that they cause injuries, that the injuries they prevent (road face) are minimal compared to spinal cord injuries. I wear a helmet.

from clearing the carpet of pine needles on their property. Said the regulation was intended to reduce soil erosion and run off. But at the same time, it posed a risk in case of fire. So although these folks wanted to mitigate the fire risk by clearing the area, they legally couldn't.

I live north of Lake Tahoe, red flag warnings up now...it's hot and dry and windy

http://www.wrh.noaa.gov/

The fire is back in control somewhat. It is a mile west of Tahoe Keys, the housing development. They have 1080 firefighters now, and feel that it is enough. They want to build a better nght shift and may request more firefighters for that. The fact that about 500 new firefighters arrived from other towns at the same time today and were stationed at the line is what saved the residential area. There did not seem to be any new houses lost today which is good considering the winds. Also for the info of anyone interested the South Shore of Lake Tahoe is not as upscale as you may think for the most part. Many of the Casino workers, hospital workers, forest service people, resort workers live there. They do logging and control burns regularly to prevent fires all along the lake. This just happens to be one of the driest years on record and lowest snowpack for a while which makes it a perfect set up for this type of crown fire.

I hope no one gets hurt more in this.

there is a mandate to clear your defensible space 100 ft from your house (not that it would help in a raging firestorm) but some of the firefighters remarked that the homes left standing in this fire had good clearing and they were thankful the homeowners did it. In my county part of which goes up to the Kings Beach area of Tahoe, they are pretty aggressive about enforcing this. The fire department makes visits and leaves you a summons. If you don't clear it as they specify you pay a fine and they keep coming back. Most people do it on their own because there is nothing more terrifying than being woken up by the smell of smoke in the middle of the night whether you live in or out of the woods.

that your place burns down, because you deserve it living in the forest.

No it isn't beautiful here, it's ugly, dry, hot and we have a meth problem and a homeless problem. I also have rattlesnakes. Can my house stay safe now?

edited to add: I forgot the worst part of all - I am surrounded by Rethugs.

you chose to live in the forest. ;)

it was the cheapest area to live if I wanted to live in a house when I moved. I couldn't afford Auburn or the pricier areas surrounding me (unless I was OK with living in my car). I didn't know about the rethugs when I moved here. ;-)

it's a confession!

:rofl:

Horrible.

:-( :hug:

Hope the wind dies down.

re-posted as an independent thread.

broken your promise from earlier today?

and let him hang out by himself here.

:)

We were ganging up!

The pictures in this morning's L.A. Times were heartbreaking. Losing a home, whether from fire, flood, or any kind of natural disaster is one of the very worst things that can happen to a person.

:evilfrown:

At Jackson Meadow Reservoir. The place made me nervous as a cat.... Bone dry tinder ALL OVER. We were in the middle of nowhere and a stray spark could have been catastrophic.


PS - 50 boy scouts, 8 adults.... I have yet to recuperate.

I hope you had a nice time.

But it was beautiful!

the bears going through the trash bins at night, while hiding my head inside my sleeping bag!! :scared:

They know they can't get in. Plus we had all our food inside a rental truck that was locked at night.

this situation would not be as dire.

they were hand digging the fire break. The heavy equipment could have done it much faster. We'll never know, though.

:(

We were in the path of the worst fire in AZ history five years ago. Our town was evacuated for a week, but in the end we were very fortunate to have been spared. As with this fire, our area's fire was human caused. :-(

My heart goes out to everyone in the path of the Tahoe Fire and I pray that it can be controlled soon with no casualties.

Mine goes out to all those folks who have been barely hanging in there working minimum wage jobs. :(

Fortunately it's our vacation home so we had a home to stay in. We were glued to our tv that week. Many residents had to take shelter in high school gyms.

out in Marin County and how dangerous it was for her family to try to find a safe place to be. They wound up in a public facility, iirc.

Here's hoping everyone can stay safe, including our firefighters. :(

"To all Non-Louisiana DU'ers posting about the hurricane..

I'm sorry, but this has to be said. I'm getting a little tired of all the people who post here with overblown drama, about how the hurricane has intensified, the damage it may cause or even the millionth repetition of "It's going to be bad! Get out now!" Those of us who live here in the state know what's going to happen far better than you. The voyeuristic concern, as if many people here need to feel "connected" to what's going here, is a little disquieting.

We here who live in the state know what we need to do. We know the potential for death and destruction of property this storm brings. We've been keeping tabs on it long before any of you even considered the possibility the storm may be a threat. If you want to post about the storm, that's fine, but realize that we here in Louisiana are more than a touch underwhelmed by your knowledge, your compassion and your concern for what's going on here. We appreciate your well-wishing, but please stop telling us how bad it's going to be and what we need to do."

=======

I wonder why it's so hard a concept for people to realize that we actually care about these otherwise anonymous people on the board, that some of us worry about people in harm's way and mean no harm ourselves?