Why so Glum DU?

Glum on Gulliver's Travels: "We're doomed! It'll never work!"


I've never seen such apathy as I've seen toward these subpoenas.

It is too much to ask that folks here give the same support to Democrats like Sen. Leahy we've given to uphill battles against this administration in the past?

The apathy by some toward these efforts by our Democrats in committee look like a pretext to a self-fulfilling prophecy of defeat or failure. Subpoenas have been pressed to fruition before against an initial resistance, in this very administration.

...THEN we'll all throw a :party:

I just wonder if they'll be ignored.

Condi has ignored hers so far.

And we must depend on Gonzo's department (which is a joke right now with him at the helm) to enforce those subpoenas. What do you suppose the chances are that is going to happen?

The Dems have them on the run, they are getting backed into the corner. But will they press them on it, or rattle swords and go home empty handed? :shrug:

The audience was begging Pat Leahy to impeach. Maybe he heard us.

the subpoenas will be ignored and the Democrats won't impeach about this either.

It's more cynicism than apathy.

now why anyone here would have become more cynical recently, well that i just do not know

:sarcasm:

when we were in the minority, unbowed by cynicism and resolute in our determination to press our concerns into action?

I think this is a manufactured funk, brought on by the widespread encouragement of a deliberate pout about the reluctance in Congress to impeach, from folks who should know better. There's been almost no drive or call from those who profess so much concern for the upholding of laws and the prosecution of the Bush administration to support those excellent efforts like this one which intend to hold the administration accountable, but may fall short of a move to impeach.

i'm feeling very low in energy lately

seeing all the support for the huge wall between the US and mexico, half-assed 'solutions' to the healthcare crisis from our 'top tier' candidates... there's a lot going on now that could explain the growing cynicism... much more than just a failure to even appear to care about the rule of law

If we thought that these weren't destined to end up in a Supreme Court that shows little sign that they have any greater interest in the Rule of Law than does our purported head law enforcement officer.


x(

on the Subpeona of Whitewater Notes (from the Duke Law Review) :

In 1995, the Special Senate Committee to Investigate Whitewater Development Corporation and Related Matters (the Senate Whitewater Committee) issued a subpoena for certain documents. The White House announced that it would withhold material about a November 5, 1993, meeting involving senior presidential aides and private lawyers, on the ground that the documents were protected by the lawyer-client privilege and executive privilege. William Kennedy, who at the time was an associate White House counsel, took extensive notes at the meeting. President Clinton said that he believed "the president ought to have a right to have a confidential conversation with his minister, his doctor, his lawyer." That argument would apply if a president met with his private lawyer, but the issue was complicated by the presence of government lawyers at the meeting.

Within a few days, the White House offered to turn over the Kennedy notes if the committee agreed that the meeting was privileged. The committee refused because it learned of other meetings attended by White House officials and private attorneys. Unable to reach an acceptable compromise, the committee voted to send the issue to the Senate floor and from there to federal district court. On December 20, 1995, the Senate began consideration of a resolution directing the Senate Legal Counsel to bring a civil action to enforce the subpoena. The resolution invoked a special statute regarding the authority of the Senate Legal Counsel to sue for subpoena enforcement orders. In a letter on that same day to the committee, White House Special Counsel Jane Sherburne described various options, stating: "We have said all along that we are prepared to make the notes public." The resolution passed the Senate by a vote of fifty-one to forty-five. On the following day, the White House agreed to give the notes to the Senate Whitewater Committee.


http://www.law.duke.edu/shell/cite.pl?52+Duke+L.+J.+323

But Clinton wasn't a craven authoritarian despot...

and we're a little glum because we haven't seen much action on the legislative side regarding those subpoenas and the intent of the administration to ignore them.

A lot of this now hinges on the Secret Service. Will they become a Praetorian Guard, blindly loyal to the men they are supposed to guard from assassination, or will they be loyal to the constitution and surrender those men to Federal Marshalls when arrest warrants are issued?

This country desperately needs a constitutional crisis. The executive has simply grabbed too much power to itself. It needs to be stopped.

This administration's ability to avoid presecution is staggering.

six months we've had the House and we're still in Iraq, Shrub is still in office and it's not Christmas yet.

Me? I'm overjoyed, but I know how slowly things can work in DC and I had few expectations that I would see exactly what I wanted to see happen.

I do like the direction things are going, though.

:)

we need more hope!

Norman...We have a lot to look foreword to.

I think things are going to start to get better soon. I feel it in my bones!