Looks Like Nader May Run In 08:

OK, looks like Ralph is going to do the presidential thing again in 08. Last time he got around 90,000 of the votes in FL. Guess will have to wait and see what his plan is but he seems open to the idea and states Hillary as a reason.

Can't figure this guy out, he just gave us or at least helped put GWB in the white house for 8 years. How could he see any of this as being a good move on his part or a good move for the country. However, I think he believes he DEM party machine is just as bad as the republican party.

Oh well, a lot of time between now and 08.

I mean if I feel strongly enough I should be able to extract a vote from him, no?

Welcome to DU :hi:

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Suggesting you take a long walk on a short pier.

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If you seriously believe any of that crap that you just spewed, you do not belong here at all. It's like arguing with a freeper: logic doesn't come into the equation.

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If you're voting 3rd party, you're not a Democrat. Period.

There are other websites for posters like you.

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from your profile:


"I'm a Green and a Nader supporter looking to interact with DFA members and other "progressives" tucked away in other wings of the Democratic Party. Since William Jefferson Clinton, I have been unable to stomach Democratic candidates at any level and I am open to conversation about this topic and many other. Of special interest to me is the total abandonment of real anti-war candidates in this past election and the relatvie success of Working families and other "third parties" that don't run candidates and expect little principle or backbone from those they endorse."


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enjoy your stay

I'm sure there's a Green Underground somewhere. But calling the DLC fascists? Calling Gore a faux environmentalist? Dean and Pelosi fake progressives? That's setting the bar pretty low. In fact that's just name calling. I'm not suggesting that you find a different webboard from DU because I disagree with you. I'm suggesting it because you clearly have nothing to contribute to the discussion here.

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http://www.ecomall.com/greenshopping/gore.htm

It's just not true that he did nothing. BTW, Dean was not pro-war either, so if you blame anyone, blame Kerry.

--- it would be fascinating to follow the money trail of his campaign financing, eh? Wonder how many corporate and GOP heavy hitters would be chipping in?

gave him a pass in 2000. 2004 any respect i had for the man is no more

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Oh, and Nader's an utter piece of shit moron who shares a huge piece of the blame for the ability of mr.bush to take office and wreak havoc on the world as we know it.

He's a selfish, misguided, uninformed and ignorant laughing stock.

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siphon dem votes away.

Fact: His doing so turned out to be a huge factor in the absolute misery this country has endured for the past 6 years.

Fact: Nader is a hopelessly selfish and misguided piece of shit fool.

Fact: You don't have to put ** in shit. Of all the crap you're spewing typing the word shit is the least thing we're concerned with from you.

Will do a fund raiser with him...err, wait that would be Hillary Clinton now wouldn't it? Ya know when you live in a corporate cash register glass house it's kind of hard to throw stones isn't it?

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His act's worn out on this side of the tracks, Ralph should now start playing with the wingnuts who are all pissed off and divided. Ralphie can champion the illegal immigration cause or some populist cause...convince them that there's no difference between Repugnicans and Democrats and take their money instead of ours.

Nader on Bush and Gore...
"They're like Tweedledum and Tweedledee. We'll have a hard time distinguishing them in Washington."
http://www.timesrecord.com/website/archives.nsf/56606056e44e37508525696f00737257/8525696e00630dfe852568e70054a979?OpenDocument

E: You said during your campaign that it didn’t really matter if Al Gore or George W. Bush won the election.
Nader: That’s right.
http://www.emagazine.com/view/?696

Nader concedes one difference between Bush and Gore.
“The only difference between Bush and Gore is the velocity with which their knees hit the floor when corporate interests come knocking”
Ralph Nader, Oct. 31, 2000, on ABC News Nightline.

Nader claims Gore is WORSE...
Martin was especially struck by a Portland speech where Nader said that Gore was "more reprehensible" than Bush because Gore "knows so much and refuses to act on his knowledge."
http://www.villagevoice.com/news/0418,levine,53179,1.html

Nader says Gore would have had us in Iraq?
Nader said that a Gore presidency "wouldn't have been any different in terms of military and foreign policy."
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4304155/

Nader on Gore's environmentalism.
"Gore talks environment. In one area after another, he has betrayed the environmental movement."
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines/103000-03.htm

Nader on Clinton's impeachment.
DONALDSON: You say that if you’d been in the Senate, you would have voted to convict Bill Clinton in his impeachment trial, correct?
NADER: Correct.

Even Nader didn't know the Greens would try to defeat Wellstone. Did he know they would try to defeat Lamont?
"It's sort of foolish to indicate that Democrats are entitled to particular voters, but Wellstone is not likely to have trouble in terms of the Green platform."
http://www.commondreams.org/views/121900-104.htm

who will vote for him this time around (if he runs) for the same reasons as 2000. Democratic nominee X is going to be equated to a Republican by Nader making him run for president in 2008.

... but if the Dems are so soulless as to nominate Hillary, then I will certainly be looking somewhere else to vote my conscience and convictions in 2008.

I sure wish Bill Moyers or Thom Hartmann would make serious challenges for the Dem nomination or consider an independent bid.

But I will vote for her over any of the Republicans. A vote for Nader helps Republicans.

Would you vote for him too because he says he's a Democrat. And if you wouldn't, whats is the big difference between Joe and Hillary?

Stop Republicans, even Republican Light!

The Green Party blew up in 2004, cut down the line between those who wanted to stop Bush and those who still maintain there is no difference. They are a shell of their former selves, and will amount to nothing in the end.

The "Nader Threat" isn't nearly what it was. Let him run. I always like free entertainment...and he will bring some necessary juice to the conversation.

Nader says Gore would have had us in Iraq?
Nader said that a Gore presidency "wouldn't have been any different in terms of military and foreign policy."
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4304155 /

to run and get his attention. I'm sure he is proud in helping Bush get (s)elected in 2000.

the past few years and the dems have nothing to worry about. Do nothing and have votes chiseled away.

will go here.

They will lose as many as we will, maybe more. This time I don't care as much about him. (So far)

It's the GOP's assaults on personal freedom that is alienating the Libertarian wing.

The sad thing is, if we could find some real cajones on issues like separation of church and state, reproductive choice, ending the drug war, and standing up for the rights of pain patients and the terminally ill to make their own damn decisions about their own bodies, we could pick up a lot of those voters. They're not going to vote for Nader.

:D

The 90.000 # is from 2000. he got them the same way no name candidates in Californis's recall chaos found themselves with thousands of votes (they were Davis's). or, the way Buchanan was surprised to get votes...

If he thinks he can do better he needs to run for the democratic nomination. He knows that the vast majority of Americans find him repugnant and wouldn't give him the time of day.

If only the Green Party would wake up and realize that he's as much of a drain on their credibility as he is a cause of headaches to the rest of us.

IMO - YMMV

Than getting more voices in the Democratic process. Now that the Democratic party is becoming a corporate cash resister party, pandering to the same war mongering corporations that the Republicans are, Nader is a man who has worked for many years even before the 2000 Presidential elections to give a voice to the disenfranchised. I just wish Hillary Clinton worked for these same ideals, until then Give em Hell Ralph. Go see "An Unreasonable Man" a new Nader Documentary that tells the real story of your so called meglomaniac.

that is more than enough reason to hate that son of a bitch. Nader gave up on the disenfranchised years ago.

the Democrtic Party gave up on the Disenfranchised. If John Edwards gets the nomination I might listen, otherwise it's the same old hipocrasy!

going to Gore's book signing of "Inconvenient Truth"! He had the *!!*s to stand in line, shake his hand and get his autograph! Gore of course was gracious and polite to him and signed his book. He is such a hypocrite. He makes me sick.

I have no use for Nader--he's an opportunistic asshole in bed with the bush reich.

Listen to Ralph on DemocracyNow.org today and hear the real story. Ya know Nader wasn't invented in 2000 to keep the Dems out of office, but I swear some of you people were.

and he doesn't deserve it. "The real story" Nader wouldn't tell the truth if he even knew what it was. I can't listen to that fool for one second. When he said there was no difference between Gore and Bush, he lost my respect. Because even I knew that Bush would damage this country, (although I never imagined it would be this bad, but I felt real dread when he was selected) and I didn't follow politics all that close back then.

And why did he run in 2004? Was Bush and Kerry the same too? If Nader ever won, he would be just as bad as Bush, as Nader doesn't compromise either.

zalinda

for the nature of politics. Nader is against the very thing that the Democratic Party is becoming a huge Corporate Cash Register of a party, one that shows no regard for the poor, labor, or the disenfranchised. Nader knows he'll never win, what he's there for is to push the Dems in the right direction and to do the right thing. Without a guy like Nader the Democratic Party will become souless. I for one am not ready for another republican lite candidate so we can push every job left off shore. Bill Clinton was no saint, he was the beginning of the end for the Democratic Party, I can't bear to think what his wife would do to us!

He only appeals to the far left. Sorry, but the vast majority of dems are just a little left of center, that's why Kucihinch won't get the nomination. They haven't gotten fed up with corporations as yet, they still see it as a necessary evil. If Gore had gotten in, we may have been able to move the party more to the left, but not now. Bush has moved the entire country more to the right in the last 6 years, so more centrist dems are the only ones who can get elected.

You change the party by being with in the party, not by a egomaniac like Nader blowing his own horn. How do you think the religious right took over the GOP? They slowly infiltrated the party with like minded people, until the nuts were running the party.

I think you have a lot to learn about the nature of politics AND people. NO ONE ever changes their mind about how something is done by some outsider telling them how stupid they are, and even if they are forced to change by an outsider, they will fight it with all their might. Only when people think that it is their idea or a like minded person's idea, will they embrace it.

And I'm sorry you didn't like Clinton, but he did the best job he could under the circumstances. So many things happened during his administration, that he had no control over. Was I disappointed in some things, yes, but on the whole, he was and is head and shoulders above Bush.

You can have Ralph, you deserve him.

zalinda

He's an egotistical pariah.

:rofl:

And who's going to organize for or support that?

perfect job for Rove. He could do it from prison. Nader would still get trampled by Lyndon LaRouche though.

He said it's too early to tell, but definitely will if Hillary is the nominee. Isn't it time we stop the corporate cash register that the Democratic Party is becoming? Go see the Doc "An Unreasonable Man" on Nader. Give em' Hell Ralph, force this Democratic Party into being reperesentative to all the people, even the poor. I'm tired of Republican light! I'm tired of Hillary Clinton and her NAFTA drafting husband, it's done wonders in my part of the midwest!

n/t

will be for the voice of the people? OK then just wondering where you stand?

The voice of the people
...will not be televised. The mainstream media is no longer the voice of the people.

Rupert Murdoch
...is _____*%$@# unprintable. A monster.

Third party candidates
...are a waste of time in a 2-party system which does not allow for proportional representation.

Nader
... makes sense on some key issues, but is a proven nightmare as a candidate. And as for consumer advocacy in general, it couldn't be in worse shape (not his fault but it has all been undone). Nader has hurt the cause of 3rd party political efforts substantially. He's history.

...that Sen. Clinton is in bed with Rupert Murdoch: http://www.ft.com/cms/s/577ecd2e-dfc2-11da-afe4-0000779e2340,_i_rssPage=80fdaff6-cbe5-11d7-81c6-0820abe49a01.html

but it doesn't make me want to run out and put some lipstick on Ralph Nader's pathetic corpse either.

Almost all of the Dems in the race have associations with the big money players. It doesn't surprise me that HRC accepted money from Rupert Murdoch, who she can claim as one of "her constituents." Hillary 'goes to bed' with a lot of corporate predators. So what else is new. She's trying to be electable. We have other candidates. Just because the media has decided that Hillary is #1, we don't have to buy into it. It's a question of which Dem candidate can find some kind of balance between business interests and the interests of the people, which are becoming ever more divergent with each passing day. Hillary may be too compromised to do that, but the idea that Nader is a realistic and necessary alternative at this point is laughable, is all I'm sayin.

but it's the deal you make with the devil that sells this party down the river, much as it's been sold down the river for some time now. So if you get what you want out of the republican, oops I meant democratic party (Sorry it sounds so much like self serving I keep making that mistake). Anyway if we make one more deal with Fox News maybe we can keep getting elected forever, sounds like it's a party that's no longer worth saving. Maybe you should find out what Nader is saying and what he's really trying to do before you baselessly acuse him of saving the republican err I mean democratic party, sorry as you can imagine it's an easy mistake to make.

you're gonna have a hard time sellin that worn-out notion that there's no difference between the 2 parties.

We don't have any choice but the try to save (err I mean transform) the Democratic party. If we can't do that then get your next "alternative" ready to run. I'm fully aware of what Nader stands for. He can keep on working for his ideals but he has no credibility as a candidate now. I know people who worked for him who wouldn't consider it ever again. He's made "3rd party" a bad word (along with Lyndon LaRouche).

Nader is just as much of a disappointment as any Dem you care to name. Hardly an alternative.

because of the flap in 2000. First off, I blame the Repukes' purging the voter rolls way more than I blame Nader.

Second of all, because of his efforts as a consumer advocate, we now have many safety laws that protect people and are now taken for granted.

that write this nonsense about Nader know nothing about the man, or the Democratic Party for that matter.

Wont he be almost 74 in 08?

He is fast becoming the new Harold Stassen.

during the Reagan years. I respect elderly people very much. I enjoy being friends with them and helping out when they need it.

I DO NOT WANT ANYONE THIS OLD BEING OUR PRESIDENT EVER AGAIN.



Kind of like a surgeon. One with a few years experience is great. One over 70 would be damn scary no matter how good he may have been in his youth & I wouldn't put my life in his hands.

There's a Democratic party primary he's free to enter. That's good enough for Dennis Kucinich. One has to wonder, why isn't it good enough for Ralph?

But he doesn't really want in. He wants to run a vanity campaign for poseurs as the national scold. How many non-voters is he really going to mobilize?

If one wants to be in politics, one has to be willing to get one's hands dirty in the arena where the people actually are. You have to talk to other people who aren't exactly like you.

He wants to be above the conversation, not part of it.

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those forums and all of the kinds of retail political campaign practices they require are more genuinely "public" than the narrow confines of the local Green drum circle. Dennis runs in the Democratic primary because he wants to actually engage the public sphere, not withdraw from it.

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He has had two chances already. Give it up, Nader!

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...something. But then I'm like "Bah. Why bother?"

.

Like Kucinich.

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Wow. If I was Nader I would feel so guilty about all the deaths I had already caused by putting Bush in the Big House, I would be hiding under the rock, not trying to do it again. He's a megalomaniac and an idiot. If Gore had won, we would NOT be in Iraq. That was always Bush's plan, getting even for daddy.
All that blood dripping off Nader's hands, I could never vote for him. He should be so ashamed.
Madspirit

I can't believe he thought Gore was similar to Bush! Gore went to a populist platform, and the change in strategy was due to his campaign floundering under DLC-type thinking, not Nader.

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What rock have you been hiding under - Gore has spoken out against this war from BEFORE the war. You might want to google that.
Got a link to Gore's ownership of stock?

I actually and I hope no one faints, care about issues domestic, not JUST the war. In fact, I care AS MUCH about domestic issues as I do the war.

I stand by what I say about Nader and I would vote for Gore. Nader is a puke and a megalomaniac and perhaps senile and partly responsible for why we are in Iraq.

I always feel uneasy when people bring up the rules of the board as a backasswards way to censor opinion but isn't there an actual rule against slamming ANY Democratic candidate? I may be wrong.
Madspirit

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How dare you call Al Gore a COWARD and a TRAITOR?

I mean more than the second part of your statement - I HAVE heard Gore speak out against the war. Even when campaigning for candidates.

Did he warn us about global warming? Get nominated for a Nobel prize/ Make a movie for a lifetime?

No?

Too bad. He's just a scumbag compared to Al Gore.

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He won the election in 2000. But Ralphie in his infinite wisdom, crashed it for the rest of us. You can blowviate all you want about Ralphie Boy, to me he is a criminal, all the way back to his bogus book about the Corvair. He is an opportunist, plain and simple.

Oh and you won't get another response from me, it isn't wroth the time of day.

As always, the DU Mods fuckin rock!

Thanks Mods!!!!

I think Nader's out for himself, really. He has no allegence to any party and I think he'll get fewer and fewer votes, especially if someone like Bloomberg runs third party.

...I have to factor in Nader's willingness to tip an election to the Republican machine, and to the Bush crime family in particular. I'm unlikely to support him because of the damage he helped to do, however well-intentioned he might have been.

And yet, it is his right to run. I'll do my best not to hate on anyone who wants to vote for him. The two-party system is broken, and Nader is largely responsible for OSHA and the FOIA.

Gimme a Dem with a genuine progressive stance, who can win the support of working Americans, and Nader might get on board.

He's like one of those horribly out of tune moron American Idol contestants who keep coming back each year to try again, as if this time they've actually got what it takes. But in reality, they're just out of tune dumbasses that only exist for us to make fun of.

abandoned the Green Party. If he really wanted that party to grow, he would not be doing what he is doing now.

environment he would not be doing this again.

Look how much damage he caused the environment and how much he helped the oil industry, the auto industry with his last run.

So St. Ralph must feel the need for some more of that GOP cash.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2004/07/09/MNGQQ7J31K1.DTL
San Francisco Chronicle
Saturday, July 9, 2004
<snip>
But the financial records show that $23,000 in checks of $1,000 or more have come from loyal Republicans. Among those who have given recently to Nader are Houston businessman Nijad Fares, who donated $200,000 to President Bush's 2000 inaugural committee; Richard J. Egan, the former ambassador to Ireland, and his wife, Pamela, who have raised more than $300,000 for Bush; Michigan developer Ghassan Saab, who has given $30,000 to the RNC since 2001; and frozen food magnate Jeno Paulucci, and his wife, Lois, who have donated $150,000 to GOP causes since 2000 alone.
All have donated the maximum $2,000 to Nader's campaign since April, records show.
<snip>
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2004/07/10/MNG9J7JMDK1.DTL
San Francisco Chronicle
Saturday, July 10, 2004
Nader defends GOP cash -- Candidate says he's keeping money
<snip>
Nader insisted his campaign had been based on "freedom of conscience'' and his ability to get out a message "without the trappings of special interest commercial cash.'' He charged Republicans and Democrats "have gone along with big business,'' which he said was the real threat to democracy and free elections in this country.

The consumer advocate, who has often been critical of the role of such deep-pocketed donors in the political arena, said wealthy contributors "are human beings too.''
<snip>

It's also the right of American voters to vote for him or reject him. I get so sick of people demonizing Nader because he chose to exercise his right to run for president.

assuming he jumps in due to Hillary and the Carville crew winning the nominee and puttng the party machine back in control

http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/6487639/voices_for_change

(snip)
"...Ralph Nader is the most arrogant and narcissistic guy I've ever met. I had a meeting with him in the early Nineties. I was jazzed going into the meeting, and I was disgusted leaving. I don't think I've ever met a bigger asshole. If he hadn't run in the last election, we wouldn't be in Iraq and thousands of people wouldn't have died needlessly. And still he's well pleased to go in and be the spoiler again!..."
(snip)


:hippie: