Michael Moore has posted his rebuttal to Sanjay Gupta

http://www.michaelmoore.com/sicko/news/article.php?id=10017



More at the link. Mr. Moore, in less than 7 hours, has demonstrated to every Democrat out there how to take on the corporate propaganda that is the American mainstream media. The Internet is truly the last refuge for the American people to take back the Democracy that was stolen from them the day Ronald Reagan gave corporations the power - The corporations who have successfully bought off both the Republicans and the Democrats.

Take notes on how Mr. Moore cuts right through it all, by first not allowing Blitzer to interrupt him, and then by making clear that he will call them on their lies with a full rebuttal on his website. It's no surprise that the telecom companies are trying to throttle this amazing and probably unanticipated free speech zone known as the Internet, which threatens the corporate power structure that took years to build.

Tonight's performance was not just about health care. This was a screaming-from-the-rooftops we're-not-going-to-take-it-anymore power-to-the-people enough-is-enough declaration of war. The corporate media does not speak for the liberal majority. Mr. Moore has fired the first shot.

Michael Moore -> :applause:

...and tonight Moore brought us an incredibly important moment in TV history. Thanks for posting.

Moore needs to be studied by the wishy-washy and spineless who kowtow to the MSM. Right frickin' on!! (sorry, even though I am thinking the other 'f' word I still can't type it...:eyes:)

Yeah Michael it's that kind of crap...an attack piece based on half truths with well edited pictures... all designed to belittle your masterful effort at exposing just that kind of crap. CNN= Corporate News Network.

Awareness sometimes needs to be put into perspective to see clearly how to move forward.
Sicko did just that. People are motivated to pay attention to our healthcare system and how to change it because they have been made aware of just how broken it has been made by corporate greed.

In just 10 min., Moore made us all aware of just how broken our Beltway news media has become. How they "fudge" the facts and only fact check when it serves their agenda. (When was the last time they ran a fact check piece on Cheney just before he came on to justify progress in Iraq?).

Yeah Blitz you're right ,.."..it is a business after all" and running a few 15min. ads for "Sicko" doesn't make a dent in all the air time you've given republican-corporate talking points (un-fact checked. CNN should be ashamed)
The very next day you give an entire hour to McCain's senate floor speech on his Iraq "progress" report. brought to you by....(fill in the blank).

The curve looks basically logarithmic, where the quality difference between the US and Cuba is negligible, but with our costs being an order of magnitude higher.

It was a really simple, informative graph of the comparative quality/cost of healthcare across countries.

What's better, universal access to health care, 39th in the world; or access for the wealthy and those fortunate to have good health insurance, 37th in the world. I don't have the relative cost numbers, but I'm betting the US is over 500% more--or more. After all, we have to include profits for the insurance companies, (legal)drug pushers, and hospital systems.

I'm thinking, Cuba better. Certainly fairer. And I'll bet they don't spend hundreds of thousands of dollars getting one woman pregnant, with quintuplets. No offense, this is only one example of how we prioritize our spending based on wealthy/fortunately insured. I'm in favor of taking care of the living first, then we can worry about adding to the pool of health care consumers.

U.S. $7000+ per person -- limited coverage only 5/6 of the population

Adjusted Health Care costs:

U.S. $8400 per person "covered" <-- 37th

Cuba $225 per person -- full coverage <-- 38th


I've been to Cuba.

One MAJOR difference between Cuba and the U.S. is that in Cuba all education is free up to an including Medical and Nursing Schools. They produce more (and I would submit more holistic and therefore BETTER doctors) in their system.

Another MAJOR difference is the Cuban Health Delivery system. Their free medical care is available with a fully equipped clinic in every neighborhood staffed by a nurse AND AN MD.

In the U.S., medical "care" is centralized around corporate (usually for-profit) hospitals with a cluster of doctor's "offices" around it. These corporate hospitals are almost NEVER located in poorer neighborhoods where the exigencies of life cause the most sickness...

Recently, I tried to find a doctor who could see a friend of mine for CASH IN HAND in the Oakland/Berkeley area. We called around for two hours and could find NO doctor who would see my friend... That told me that YOU CAN'T EVEN SEE A FUCKING DOCTOR IN THE U.S. with a fistful of cash in your hands!!!!


Another MAJOR factor in Cuban Health Care is that because of the brutal, unnecessary Embargo of Cuba which includes secondary boycott tactics that the Fuckin' U.S. won't even allow its own workers to exercise, Cuba has had a great deal of difficulty getting the medicines and supplies that they need. Without the U.S. evil blockade I firmly believe that Cuba would shoot into the top 10...

And DUers should be prepared to do the same.

expect a minute or two of Wolfman Hack rambling about how great Gupta is and how he stands behind him and then he will say that Mr Moore was correct in pointing out some errors and the CNN apologizes for those errors...no specific sill be given though...

I wonder if MM got the same contract for the taped piece that he got for the live one...no edits or cutaways while he is talking.

Peace.

off topic..I love your graphic. He is the leader of the AWAKE.

Run, Al, Run.

CNN: "But no matter how much Moore fudged the facts, and he did fudge some facts…"

* This is libel. There is not a single fact that is "fudged" in the film. No one has proven a single fact in the film wrong. We expect CNN to correct their mistakes on the air and to apologize to their viewers.


That's right. Stop playing nice and go right for the jugular. Libel....unless a public apology is given.

Until he heard the little libel-fest before he went on with Wolfie?

Sucks to be you CNN.

He gave Blitzer the opportunity to apologize without threat of an impending lawsuit. Too bad for Blitzer he didn't make use of it. ;)

see ya in three years!!!" (waves)

That was the greatest exit line I have ever seen on CNN short of "you are more of a dick in person than you are in television" (John Stewart to Tucker Carlson)

"See ya in three years!" :rofl:

"The Internet is truly the last refuge for the American people to take back the Democracy that was stolen from them the day Ronald Reagan gave corporations the power - The corporations who have successfully bought off both the Republicans and the Democrats."

This is why making a public comment to the FCC (or is it the FTC on this one because of trade issues or some such? I get the alphasoup agencies mixed up sometimes, there are just so many) regarding their hope to end net neutrality is so important.

Ending net neutrality will deal a severe blow to the internet as we know it. Do YOU want to view DU at the equivalent of a 56K connection, even if you have broadband? No? Tough. That's what it could be like if net neutrality is ended.

I didn't mean to derail your thread, and if this post does, I apologize, but you mentioned something that has an huge ancillary issue attached to it, and I felt I needed to mention it.

I return you to your regularly scheduled programming. :)

As if we don't have enough battles to fight already. If we lose net neutrality, say good bye to free discourse over the Internet in the long run.

about the internet. (edited for clarification)

And I know, I just know, that they'll use the existence of BitTorrent et al to further justify it.

Bookmark this post for if when that happens.

Truth will find a way to be heard.

I have to believe.

Peace.

Why would I want to pay Time Warner every month so I can have fast access to Corporate Advertising? If they slow things down considerably, I, and maybe a couple of you out there? will devote my rarely used home phone line to internet access.

Websites will start offering a more stripped down version for dial-ups, and hopefully a lot of consumer money will go back in consumers' pockets. We can stop by bookstores instead of buying off Amazon, and sending our checks to our creditors via snail mail. That will also cost corporations in processing costs.

It could be a whole new (old) world before you know it.

And of course the corporate controlled content won't really be worth spit anyhow. So what would be the point?

"CNN: "But no matter how much Moore fudged the facts, and he did fudge some facts…"

This is libel. There is not a single fact that is "fudged" in the film. No one has proven a single fact in the film wrong. We expect CNN to correct their mistakes on the air and to apologize to their viewers."

:popcorn:

It was done with arrogance and condescension - a tone reminiscent of Marie Antoinette lauding the virtues of cake.

... libel's fraternal twin.

Libel is written; slander is spoken. I'll admit to not seeing the segment, so if CNN delivered its lies in text as well as sound, my apologies. :-)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slander_and_libel

It seems to me that, if it were an interview or other non-scripted remark, it'd be slander. But CNN's piece was scripted, edited, played, and replayed - subjected to editorial control and produced with vetting by the organization - so it'd be libel.

However, IANAL. YMMV.


(Call me naive, but I strongly suspect that Michael has a great deal of 'experience' with this distinction.)

I'm a newspaper editor.

:hi:

I have to say that Wiki did a great job of explaining the difference. Go, Wiki!

and is therefore actually Libel.

Libel is not limited to the written word. it is a law that applies to all media.

Conceivably you could libel someone in a video game, though i haven't heard of such a case yet.

n/t

Something is published when it is spread to a third person, and there is damage.

I just use the word 'defamation;' it sounds scarier, AND it covers both slander and libel.

Michael could have just used 'defamation.'

I believe that broadcast does amount to libel, though.

:)

I almost wrote to MM's website about that one. It always bugs me when people mix them up. Probably because I only learned the difference myself a couple years ago. ;)

as soon as I cught up with the latest DU info, and you made it easy!

Everybody should read MM's rebuttle at his site! I've certainly sent the link to a lot of people I know. Of course I also sent the link to the CNN video of Sanjay's comments and MM's rant against Blitzer a few hours ago too!

And it wouldn't FRIGGIN MATTER to a child with no insurance.

lol

he answers to different masters than the people of the united states....

he said he would!

Tonight's performance was not just about health care. This was a screaming-from-the-rooftops we're-not-going-to-take-it-anymore power-to-the-people enough-is-enough declaration of war. The corporate media does not speak for the liberal majority. Mr. Moore has fired the first shot.
-----------
You were fabulous.

Burnett successfully sued the National Enquirer for libel back in 1981. How fitting to demonstrate that the self-important CNN is really no better than some gossip sheet/scandal rag excuse for journalism.

From Burnett's Wikipedia entry:

"Burnett drew attention in 1981, when she sued the National Enquirer for libel after the tabloid newspaper described her alleged public drunkenness, purportedly with Henry Kissinger. Burnett was particularly sensitive to the accusations because of her parents' own alcoholism. The case was a landmark for libel cases involving celebrities, although the unprecedented $1.6 million verdict for Burnett was reduced to about $800,000 on appeal, and eventually settled out of court.

She donated a portion of that award to the University of Hawaii saying she hoped the suit would teach aspiring journalists the dangers of defaming individuals in articles. The money was used to fund Law and Ethics courses at the school. Burnett said at the time that she didn't care if she just won "carfare", and that the lawsuit was a matter of principle."

Actually Moore can sue Gupta individually, for multiple slanders, and probably also CNN for multiple libels. That would be IF CNN posts any transcripts of Gupta's comments. Can someone here track that down, i.e., does CNN post transcripts of such comments? Or does it offer tape replay on its website?

As we 1st year law students learned to remember the difference, Slander is Spoken; Libel is written. The lies which Gupta spoke verbally on the CNN broadcast were slanders; to the extent which CNN "publishes" any transcript of Gupta's comments on the CNN website, that transcript would constitute written comments and therefore libels. Both libel and slander are forms of defamation which harm a person's reputation in his community, and also as to his capability to perform his job.

"New York Times v. Sullivan?"

Moore would have to overcome that nearly impossible-to-overcome standard, proving that the defamation occurred with CNN knowing in advance or acting recklessly with regard to the policy, because Moore is a public figure (who has inserted himself into the limelight).

My guess is that Cubans live longer because they eat less junk, exercises more, and have less stress in their lives. Having accessible health care helps, but it seems to me that is just one of many factors aiding in their longevity,

http://hdr.undp.org/hdr2006/pdfs/report/HDR06-complete.pdf

On page 315 of the document linked to on the michaelmoore.com web site, it shows the US has a life expectancy of 77.3 and Cuba is at 77.2 for the year 2005 (most recent year in the table). That is basically what CNN had stated.
I do agree that CNN should apologize for the other misrepresentations in the piece.

I've already begun eating less (nearly no) junk -- although at times it's more expensive...

I've begun exercising more...

I have MUCH less stress since I've retired from the computer business...

When I was in Cuba, I was blown away with how happy and stress free the people were. We didn't have "babysitters" and could wander freely around Havana. We spent a lot of time in the Barrios, where the people live and the contrast between their attitudes, body language, etc. and that of the poor Mexican folks we hung with on the Yucatan after Cuba (who are STILL happier and more relaxed than U.S. folks) was startling!

Of course, the folks in most of Europe were also more relaxed and happy and healthy than Americans too.


Universal Health Care is a symptom of a Healthy Society. That's why we DON'T have it...

The way things look, I may have to move elsewhere to find them. The exercise and better eating I've been working on. It's the stress that I can't seem to avoid.

I'll try later today to go into a CNN website and comment on the "biased" report by CNN.
There hasn't been any "news" worth watching on CNN since Turner folded.
Turn it off, folks!!!

these corporate puppets should be boycotted at every turn. There are lots of alternatives for getting the news, and of course they aren't reporting the news anyway, so why are folks still watching. Just the fact that they employ Glenn Beck should be reason enough to boycott.

Go get them Michael...we got your back.

F*CK the greedy corporations!

Good work Lynyrd :hi:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x1292474

I love the fact that not only does he prove CNN and Dr. Gupta are bought and paid-for shills and liars, he was able to do so as quickly and as thoroughly as he did.

Recommended.

after watching it. MM just ripped them to shreds, in millions of pieces, I think Wolfie enjoyed it. MM deserved the opportunity to hit back after that crap. If the conservatives got their wish, we'd have no platform to speak from.

www.cafepress.com/warisprofitable <<--- top '08 items & antib*sh stickers!

He didn't interrupt much. If it had been Matthews, Moore would have had to jump through the screen and strangle him to shut his ass up. Blitzer has his problems, but I have to give him credit in this case.

Given the opportunity, Moore fired off a thousand volleys as he took full advantage of the situation (room). It was great television.

It is totally true that the US media is a propaganda puppet for the drug makers and many corporations. I am constantly searching for news that is delivered on an unbiased plate. I would much rather wait in line to see a doctor than to lose my home because I couldn't pay my medical bills. The truth is, people are filing for bankruptcy every day. I'm talking about people with insurance. I'm sending a check to a doctor today. I have insurance. I could care less is every HMO went out of business today. People will be able to find work. Our companies won't be saddled with huge health care expenses anymore. Michael Moore is a good man. The only reason people dislike him is because he exposes greed. I just hope that as an American, we can all get together and demand some changes in our country. Capitalism is eroding our moral infrastructure.

Tiny, impoverished Cuba is just two places behind The New Rome on the list. Doesn't this just make us all so proud to be Americans?

:eyes:

a sleeper cell here in the US for to do no good. I don't trust my foreign born doctors anymore than I trust Airline Safety or Crop Dusting Frog Men...In short...I'm Skeert to death of everything and everybody, like my government wants me to be. I'm typing this from under my covers, inside a steel box.

America, F___ Yeah!

"Why doesn't CNN "FactCheck" Bush speeches?"

The AMA is just about as bad as the NRA when it comes to propoganda. I'm surprised the two haven't merged.

(CNN International)

They're running MM's rant followed by Sanjay saying that his only error was misquoting "$250" as "$25."

In other words, repeat over and over again that MM's a liar and hope that viewers are too lazy to look up MM's web page with the complete debunking.

kudos to MM for insisting on going on live...otherwise, his little rant would never have seen the light of day.

Hi, Nice failed hit job on Michael Moore. First of all, here are his corrections:
http://tinyurl.com/2g429p

Every point was answered and Gupta's comments on fudging facts implies intent and is therefore a defamatory remark. Appologize.

Second, Moore was right about Iraq. You were not. You sent "embeds" which compromised the press. You failed to report on major failures, death squads etc. in your main news, although "World at War" is very good.

You repeat your pattern on the environment. Although you've got the information to know there's no credible argument against the imminent dangers of man made pollution and climate change, you show "the other side" equalizing it in impact. Shame on you! Do you own property on Mars? Are you completely out of touch?

The television and print press in the USA is reviled by the public. The only reason you have viewers is that there's a monopoly. You, the rest of the major networks, and the mainstream print media are an abomination. You serve no purpose.

If you're such a fantastic neurosurgeon as Wolfie says, why are you wasting your life-saving talents on television? You should scrub in; I hear there are some serious head traumas over at Walter Reed.

Makes me wish I could recomment this reply about 1000 times!

TC

:blush:

Who's to say that one problem with our healthcare is that we have too many celebrity doctors? At least Moore's movie puts to death is the lie that the U.S. has the best system in the world (a lie circulated during Clinton's effort to get nationalized healthcare).

... you haven't been involved with the Indian community long enough.

It goes something like this:

- First born: medicine
- Second born: engineering or any applied science
- Third born: if not science, law practice at least

God forbid any of their kids decides to go the liberal arts route, even a PhD in philosophy would bring great shame to the family.


I had to teach pre-meds for many years while I was in grad school. 70 to 80% of them could care less about medicine, as their only mission in life was to get it (not to help people mind you, but just to get in). Situation was worse when it came to minorities like Indians, Chinese, Vietnamese etc, you had a bunch of poor kids that had to do their parents bidding. Most of them sucked as human beings too, hyper competitive and not in a good way (project sabotage among premed students -I taught engineering- was rampant, while it was almost unheard of among the plain engineering students). Some exceptions though, I had a great kid -Chinese- who was just not cut out for engineering, he was a fantastic violin player and he enjoyed music in general. I tried to convince him that maybe it was better if he followed what he liked: music, since he was actually talented and he would have something to contribute to humanity. Plus it would be easier on the poor guy: no matter how hard he worked, he was just not getting it (which is OK, since he was talented in other areas and that is fine with me, a world full of engineers would suck!). After I had the conversation, one week later the father came fuming... I should fix his kid (he had had a nervous breakdown) since I "poisoned" his mind.

With people like these in charge of other people's well being I am not surprised that the health care field is so rotten.....

Is it possible that Blitzer acts like a double agent, acting like he's provoking a response because it's his job but actually doing it as cover to give Moore an opportunity to talk without losing his job for giving Moore a chance to talk. Same way he snuck the gay issue in on Cheney.
Maybe Wolf has to act a certain way to keep his job but actually is constantly trying to find ways to get the truth out without his bosses being aware.

Maybe underneath that elaborate disguise it's really Dennis Kucinich!

Sssh...no one must find out. It's just too unbelievable....(see, it's working)

it's about time we had someone doing that on THEIR side of power... shhhh.. don't tell anyone. ha..

I've seen him try and be a journalist several times, I just think he's too easy on the thuglicans, but, at least he let Moore speak - so someone in there is a real journalist

www.cafepress.com/warisprofitable <<--- top '08 items & antib*sh stickers!

Should be interesting.

http://www.cnn.com/CNN/Programs/larry.king.live/index.html

love to hear him apologize, but sorry, we ALL know certain docs who are a-holes and can't apologize for jack, and think they're always right - he'll probably just tell moore to go move to cuba if it's so good and see how good the care is then - then moore can slam him with a "well I was born in this country - so I'd like to improve it, but thanks, you can move again Mr. Gupta if you'd like" - oh how I'd crack up if that exchange would occur.

www.cafepress.com/warisprofitable <<--- top '08 items & antib*sh stickers!

Any system where children are left without the care they need to stay healthy is an abomination. Everything in this country is insurance, insurance, insurance! I swear we're like...capitalism taken to its ugliest extreme.

...that she denied payment (health care) to a patient who died (thus saving the craporation 500K), well, Quack Sanjay Gupta is cut from the same cloth. A sellout cocksucker who likes the pretense of his life. Neurosurgeon? Prove it Quack.

Recently, I had to get some antibiotics and the doc wrote me a scrip for something that would have cost me $150! I had to get the pharmacy to ask him for a cheaper substitute.