Interesting "SICKO"-inspired Comparison of Taxes and Benefits in US/Canada/UK/France

From Facing South: Blogging for a Progressive South. The whole post is very well worth reading as it shows the near parity of payments Americans make compared to other taxpayers, which forces the question, why don't we get as much for our buck?


http://southernstudies.org/facingsouth/2007/07/sicko-shows-better-way-that-need-not.asp

SiCKO shows a better way that need not bankrupt us


The first thought that comes to mind regarding health care in France and the UK as portrayed in Sicko is "oh my God their income taxes must be outrageous!"

Michael Moore artfully dodges this in the movie, focusing instead on the standard of living, disposable income, and the like.

He might as well have laid it all out, though, because it's not nearly as bad as you might imagine. In fact, it's a pretty good deal.

First of all, some examples of income taxes paid in the respective countries (all converted to US dollars):

Income tax on $50,000
US        Canada        UK        France
$6945      $8144      $8156      $7915


Income tax on $100,000
US           Canada           UK           France
$19,965      $20,347      $22,773      $23,899


So there's not that much difference, in the relative scheme of things.

Ironically, corporate tax rates are actually lower in France (33%) and the UK (28%) v. up to 39% but generally around 34% in the US. The capital gains tax in France is higher at 26% v. 15% in the U.S. Capital gains in the UK are taxed the same as income for individuals, with the first £8,800 exempt.

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<keep reading for more surprising findings>

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At least in England each person gets a code based on family situation and other factors saying how much they can earn tax free. Mine long ago was a 278L which means I could make as a single earner 2780 pounds before I was subject to income tax.

Anything from my monthly paycheck in excess of 2780/12 was taxed at the fixed rate by income band by my employer. The income bands used to be numerous and very top-heavy (hence the "19 for you and 1 for me" Beatles lyric about the very top band) but IIRC now are only 2 - 25% and 40% I think.

Because there are essentially no (or very few and you have to try to claim them) deductions for individual earners, this works out very easily. Most people don't try to claim deductions so just get taxed at the fixed rate per income band after initial exemption.

:hi:

Seems like there ought to be a more efficient, less paper-consuming way of collecting taxes. Now there's a subject for another consciousness raising movie for Americans.

I know in my school district, health insurance is a huge chunk of what the district pays out. Consequently, our pay increases have been very minimal for many years, and we've really had to fight to hang on to our benefits and bargain for salary increases as well. So even if there was a slight tax increase it could be easily offset in salary increases. Consider in the tax cuts for the upper "crust", and the rest of us would probably not even need to see any increases.

salaries at a higher level or other expenses that could be trimmed down and not missed. Just my opinion but I have found this to be true in private industry and suspect it's the same in school districts. Also, government run entities have the power to be self insuring. That is they can take the money that would be paid to a health insurance company and administer their own program by setting up a claims office within the system and processing claims and payments for their teachers through it. I know that salaries are a large part of the budget of any entity that hires people to work but I also find that convincing workers that they can't get raises because if this or that reason is usually just an excuse. If they really can't pay then they need to find other sources of tax revenue. It's that simple. A business would raise the price on their product to whatever the market would bear.

We've had a "wage freeze" for over three years now, but they use the fact that they haven't increased health insurance premiums to justify it. When they finally do give us cost of living raises, they'll probably raise premiums and it will offset. It's a shell game.

educate DU and anyone else we could corner about this for years and it's been very hard to get anyone to pay attention. Thank God someone as high profile as Michael Moore with a means to do it has taken up the cause and brought it to the public eye because frankly I was getting weary.

as the government seems even more bent on privitization schemes.

and we don't get a minimum of 5 weeks vacation, or unlimited sick leave, and don't have a 35 hour work week.

And, if we don't have health insurance, we pay for doctor visits and meds.

Either way you add it up, we pay more.

the table. I became aware of the fact that my taxes were paying for waste and war and not a penny was returned to me in the commons for health care, rent subsidy, child care or any of the number of other programs that our tax money should be paying for and returned to the taxpayer. Taxes are supposed to share our respnsibility for maintaining the commons. They aren't a candy store for special interests to dip into without end.

That's probably a little too much to expect from the US, but universal health care coverage would be just fine.

I wish Michael Moore had given this a little more attention in his movie. Many people are under the impression (as I was) that the tax differential between US and UK/France/Canada is huge. This chart is powerful and easy to understand.

Britain and France are VAT countries. Canada has the GST as well. I would have no problem with bringing in a VAT or GST to provide single-payor socialized medicine in the USA.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe Britain's VAT is around 17 or 18 percent.

Here's a wikipedia chart showing the VAT rates in Europe and many other countries.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Value_added_tax

You always hear idiots like Rush saying that the French give 80% of their paychecks to the government. People believe that BS too.:crazy:

When I was watching Sicko, I was so impressed by how the French did things and all of the services that were available to it's citizens. I just kept thinking "Damn, they are way more civilized than we are here by light years!"