So all I gotta do is ask God's forgiveness

If I go down to the Big Easy, get me a big hotel room, get a couple of hookers, buy some cocaine, and lots of alcohol, maybe hook up the computer and do some insider trading and identity theft to pay for my soire, make my own little sodom and gomorrha, maybe even get me a male prostitute; then all I gotta do is Ask God's forgiveness and I'll get to go to heaven and everyone will love me. And I can do that every weekend? Or do those rules only apply to republicans? All that stuff falls under the category of conservative values right?

Like that evangelist preacher did

Asking for forgiveness entails understanding what you did wrong, why it was wrong, and that you shall attempt to never repeat the action. In other words its not just the words. You have to get it and love it.

what if I'm tempted again? Don't christians get mulligans or something?

If you die in your sins without final confession you got problems.

How do I confess? I was raised catholic and am aware of the ritualistic manner in going into the confessional and bearing all to a Priest, but is that true confession. Or on my death bed, or vitter on his, can we not just say God I'm sorry and that's a done deal?

The priests are guides. They attempt to listen to your confession, give you a verbal sense of forgiveness, and point you in a direction of thinking that would make you see the error of your ways. This is accompanied by a repetitive mantra in order to drive the point home. I don't believe they see themselves as the individual actually forgiving them their sins. That even in the Catholic Church is between the individual and God. If they have not repented in their heart (that is they get it) then they have not accepted forgiveness.

Last rites are a sort of reaffirmation of the faith. A reminder to the adherent that if they embrace their faith then they can be forgiven. Even if they erred in life.

I personally think that God sees your heart; you know if you really want to change, if you really want to make things right. And so does God.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

Are there numerous Heavens? Is the sky filled with this God and that God? Is an action a sin to a certain believer and okay to another believer? Wow, I'm beginning to appreciate my attempt to stay in the black and white world of reality.

others beliefs rather than actually grapple with them. More efficient too. But if you are just farting around I see little point in discussing with you.

Bryant

there is a christian god (or whatever you believe) how can you possibly accept the beliefs of someone who does not believe what you believe? How can there possibly be more then one god relative to actions of believers? I can tell you today is July 10th and I would think you would agree with me. Its not a belief its a fact. If I go cheat on my wife, snort cocaine, fuck whores, cheat on my taxes and then "sincerely" ask forgiveness from a caricature, I'm sposed to believe that makes everything okay?? That is very tough to handle my friend.

Salvation, heaven, afterlife, same deal. I might see him one way; someone else might see him another way. That doesn't make either of us wrong, just that we see him in different ways (there are constants of course; I would refuse to accept a God who commanded murder for example).

Do you believe in the possibility of redemption at all? Or do you believe more along the lines of "Once an asshole, always an asshole?"

Bryant

Redemption? Why would a christian conservative who exalts his/her values and preaches behavior to others need redemption? For what? I have been a law abiding, tax paying productive citizen my whole life. I don't cheat on my wife, I do not moralize to my neighbors, I don't cheat on my taxes. I can honestly and fairly say I am a good neighbor and citizen. And yet. I don't go to church. I fucked up once as a young Sailor and I got my ass severely kicked by a big brawny Leading Petty Officer. Redemption was not necessary. But I never did it again. I guess that was a religious experience.

How bout once a good buy, always a good guy. I don't need Jesus to be a good human being.

Your response is pretty confused, but "once a Good Guy, always a good guy" seems clear enough to me. It's just the flip side to "Once an asshole always an asshole." I've wondered about that in the past, nice to have at least one persons answer.

Christian Conservatives may act like they don't need redemption; because, particularly in the political arena, religion has become a sales point. But in theory Christianity should teach humility and an acceptance that we have all failed and fallen short of what we should be doing.

Bryant

If I robbed a bank I would go to jail. Is that not redemption? If I cheated on my wife, would her forgiveness be redemption? If I caused a car wreck, would I not get a traffic ticket and subsequently raped by my insurance company? Would that not be redemption? Why does redemption have to come from a cloud?

I don't as it turns out worship clouds, did I give you that impression? I apologize if so, I must be communicating unclearly. I worship God or Heavenly Father, who is not, as it turns out, a cloud.

I apologize for my lack of clarity.

Bryant

Redemption simply refers to the act of redeeming. Redeeming has several meanings which would include yours, "atoning" "paying back" "suffering punishment".

But another meaning is, "changing for the better". And I believe it is that meaning to which Bryant refers. Many people do not believe a person can change for the better. That is why we have Three-Strikes laws. I happen to believe people can change for the better.

but I'm 53 years old. My one crime is a speeding ticket in 1983. I don't go to church. I don't believe I need to change for the better. Can a person be good without religion? I think its pretty damned obvious that a person can be bad with it.

The universe has no say in the matter as far as I can tell. And I do not accept that I require forgiveness for simply existing.

I do not presume to tell anyone that my way is the way. It is my way. I can share it with others and hope that they may take something from it and I may try to take something from their way. That is the best any can hope for.

Some people never forgive. Ever. Quite a lot of people, actually. And in most cases like that -- and we're talking about someone being insulted, not being murdered or raped -- the transgessor who honestly feels badly is, in my eyes, better than the victim who never forgives.

Hopefully, you were just simplifying your beliefs there, and you are actually capable of forgiving yourself even when some idiot won't. Cause otherwise I'd think you'd have a pretty miserable life ahead of you.

I can endeavour to seek the forgiveness of those I have wronged. But I have to forgive myself first. If they cannot forgive me then it becomes their burden which I am willing to ease them of if they find themselves ready to.

i think i understand your perspective.

You may say "Today is July 10th," but there are many people in this world to whom that would make NO sense at all.

Believe it or not "our" way of calculating days, isn't the only way- Some societies use "lunar/solar" based calendars. We have "leap-year" every 4 years, some societies have a 'catch-up' time every 30+ yrs. But we all inhabit this big blue planet, floating in space. And we all experience the passage of 'time' in some fashon.

I don't think it is necessary for everyone to ...percieve?.... 'god' in exactly the same way. That doesn't make 'god' non-existent, or meaningless. (imo) To me, 'god' is not so much about "what other people do/think/believe- it isn't a 'contest' or even a 'test'- "how bad can i be, and still get *the prize/to heaven/pass this level*.

Are people only "good" because 'god' will reward/punish them otherwise?-

Are people only "good" because 'society' will reward/punish them otherwise?-

How does this reflect upon us as individuals?

What if 'society/god' is based on "wrong" things?-

Should someone be allowed to starve to death because they don't 'do' the things society requires of them? (some religions would say no, some yes- the same as some "social/governmental" paradigms)

Should someone be prevented from choosing self-murder? (suicide)

Should some people get preferential treatment because of "dumb-luck" or because of merit?
(inheritance/royalty/monetary influences, or geographical/ethnic/sexual/aesthetic preferences?)
Religions as well as 'societal' pressures, rules and laws are not the same the world over- yet we all occupy this planet. We are all "homo-sapiens".

I believe there is much we still do not know, about many things, and most definitely about the "being/force/power/essence" that is known by some as 'god'.

peace,
blu

:shrug:

I'd never do that. I'm a happily married, law abiding, tax paying, productive, rather boring citizen. I don't bother my neighbors, I keep my lawn nicely mowed, I give to charities. Ya know, a fucking wacky liberal.

But if you have one of those parties, will you invite me? :rofl:

We are so damned boring that we haven't been to the quarter after the sun went down in years and years. My dip on the wild side is a bud draft at the TI and a stroll by Larry Flynt's Barely Legal to check out the posters on the exterior of the building. I do live in the fast lane.

The wildest time I've had in the Quarters in decades has been taking my parents, niece, and one daughter to Cafe du Monde. But I'm willing to learn!

About 15 years ago the wife and I had a nice cup there about 1:30 in the morning. Truly enchanting setting with the lights reflecting off the Cathedral and Andy Jackson seemingly coming alive. I think we'd both have to have tutelage My Friend if we ventured into the wild side (the conservative side if you will.) Ain't that a hoot.

"Why" don't/wouldn't you blow off your taxes? Cheat on your wife? Bug your neighbors? let your lawn go to seed?

Why should you "obey the laws"? Do you always obey every law?

You've never gone over the speed limit?

Done something 'society' would condemn, but didn't 'know' about?

It is very possible there are laws you don't even know exist, that you have broken-

(Personally, i can't live with myself, when i've done something that 'violates' my own individual "laws"- some of them are identical to this 'society's' laws-
others are more strict, and seemingly 'crazy' to other people, but have a special ....signifigance to me. Call it "conscience" or "spirit"- whatever it is, i have found i can't be at peace with myself, when at odds with my _______?"


What IF you could 'get away' with any of the things you listed?- if the 'penalties' society imposes upon us for violating the things you list could be avoided- no one would need to 'know'? Would that change your behaviour?

You have really opened some big questions for me- Thank you for this post.

peace,
blu

particularly Democrats, gays and feminists... not particularly in that order but you get the picture.

Thank the "creatrix" for the "cosmic parole board."

They'll nail these bozos over time for sure.

You see, once you've accepted Supply Side Calvinist Jesus into your heart as your personal savior, you will never sin again because nothing you do is ever a sin as long as you believe in Supply Side Calvinist Jesus.

All it takes is believing the new myth. No following of annoying or inconvenient rules is ever necessary.

I was thinking about stoning to death those who work on the sabbath, but I was told that's so old testament and I asked where did the homosexuality and abomination stuff come from and was told, oh that's different.

Lie, Cheat, Steal, Kill... all that you want, but as long as you accept Jesus on your deathbed....
What a sick concept!

is a kind of get out of jail free card. he has to posture, ask forgiveness, pledge to continue to be a good repug and all will be well. Some crying would really help at this point.

wonder if he'll bother to update his bio?

http://vitter.senate.gov/?module=aboutdavid/bio

Maybe he was just doing a little bidness research.

And on that note, goodnight, DU :D

you have to give lots of money to the RNC too. Oh and love the war and follow the dear leader repeating his words over and over. Only then do you get the free pass to redemption.

Maybe I'll have to do some more conservative value insider trading. Thanks for the tip.

at this party with a nose full of blow in the company of harlots where will you be then? I guess you could tell haysus that you really didn't mean to sin, maybe he'd just chuck you into purgatory for an eon or two.

These people aren't Christians, they are pathetic hypocrites. Just like Chimpy McCokespoon, using religion as a crutch.

:evilgrin: They have taught me well. :rofl:

I can fornicate and be forgiven. Praise the Lord. A nice little extra in the sunday collection plate and the gates of heaven will be opened wide. Halleluyah!!

As long as the "Asking God's Forgiveness" comes in the caboose, you can pretty much do what you want with the rest of the train...

EDIT: Improved subject.

I grew up SDA and once you've been baptized in the faith, you can do whatever you want as long as you ask god to forgive you. Even though I'm an atheist now, I was baptized at age 9, so technically I'm still part of the faith. All I have to do on my death bed is to ask for forgiveness and I'm good as gold. It's a great back up plan. Y'know, just in case. :evilgrin:

Bush decided he was God in that one.

Rp