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Can a presidential pardon be granted to a person being held under inherent contempt of Congress?

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BuyingThyme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-12-07 01:52 PM
Original message
Can a presidential pardon be granted to a person being held under inherent contempt of Congress?
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whistle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-12-07 02:04 PM
Response to Original message
1. Who would be pardoned in this case, Harriet Meyers? She isn't guilty of anything
...as yet, that can only happen if she is arrested, prosecuted and found guilty by a jury of her peers. At this point the President is the one blocking her testifying so he could be help in contempt and also for interfering with the justice process. I guess he could issue immunity from prosecution, but that would only compel congress then to have Meyers testify which would most certainly fry Bush's and Cheney's and Rove's collective asses. So all Bush can do is keep stating that Meyers does not have to testify because of executive privilege. The committee has a motion to argue that point and I guess will after the five days are up. I'm not a lawyer so take my comments here with a grain of salt. I'm just watching the theater of this whole thing :popcorn:
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rsdsharp Donating Member (516 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-12-07 02:09 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. The presidential pardon does not require that a person even be
charged with a crime. Nixon was never indicted, let alone convicted, and Ford pardoned him.

That said, I tend agree with the poster below. The pardon power is limited to "offenses against the United States, except in cases of impeachment."

I'm not sure contempt of Congress is an offense against the United States.
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BuyingThyme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-12-07 02:12 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. What if she's found guilty by a jury of Congress?
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MonkeyFunk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-12-07 02:05 PM
Response to Original message
2. I would think not
because anyone held under an inherent contempt citation is not guilty of an offense against the United States, but an offense against Congress.
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BuyingThyme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-12-07 02:10 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. Yeah, that's a tricky difference.
I'm thinking it might be a separation of powers thing. If they go the US attorney route, I suspect the Chimp can arguably have a hand in it, but if they go the Sergeant at Arms route, it might be a different story.
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MonkeyFunk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-12-07 02:15 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. I tend to think that, too
but of course, I could be entirely wrong.


That said, I'm not comfortable with the notion of "inherent contempt". It gives one branch of government the power to charge, try, convict and punish someone with no judicial review. I don't like the President having this power, and I don't like the Congress having it, either.
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BuyingThyme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-12-07 02:16 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Me too. I had never even heard of this thing. Maybe a little too enemy combatic.
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BuyingThyme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-12-07 02:22 PM
Response to Reply #7
13. Then again, judges can do the same thing.
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Fleshdancer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-12-07 02:14 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. I'm confused....
Is an inherent contempt citation the same as contempt of congress?
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MonkeyFunk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-12-07 02:18 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. no
Edited on Thu Jul-12-07 02:38 PM by MonkeyFunk
contempt of congress is a regular crime. It would be referred to the DC federal attorney for presentation to a grand jury, and if charged, a regular jury trial would be held.

Under inherent contempt, the congress itself arrests and holds the subject, independent of the judiciary.
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Fleshdancer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-12-07 02:20 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. thank you for the clarification n/t
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BuyingThyme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-12-07 02:19 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. I guess inherent contempt proceedings are a way of dealing with contempt of congress.
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napi21 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-12-07 02:19 PM
Response to Reply #6
11. No. It's a different statute. The contempt of Congress charge
must be processed through the DOJ, the Inherent Contempt charge is handled through the Sargent at Arms and stays totally within the House.
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hootinholler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-12-07 02:31 PM
Response to Reply #6
15. Perhaps because it's a little confusing...
From what I've read lately, there are 2 types of Contempt of Congress:

Statutory, which is codified in the law and has a judicial remedy.

Inherent, which is legislative and is not subject to judicial review, but, the party jailed may not be held after a new Congress is seated.

Inherent Contempt also does not constrain the pursuit of punishment under the statute.

-Hoot
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BuyingThyme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-12-07 02:32 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. Just to make it more confusing, there's also a civil course of action.
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drm604 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-12-07 03:19 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. Civil Course
Could you elaborate on that, maybe post a link? I don't think the President can overrule on a civil case can he?
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-12-07 02:24 PM
Response to Original message
14. He and Cheney can do anything they want until
someone does something about it.
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hootinholler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-12-07 07:49 PM
Response to Original message
18. No. I don't see the grounds. Separation of powers and all that. n/t
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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-12-07 07:50 PM
Response to Original message
19. Veto = executive check on Congress; pardon = executive check on Judiciary...
... It'd go to court, but that's how I think it'd end up.
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