It is obvious, nothing is going to change with our involvement in Iraq

The excuse that you can't over-ride the veto doesn't really cut it

You send a time-table, he vetos it, and you cannot override the veto, keep sending the same bill back until he does sign it or they run out of money

All the MSM is yapping about is quotes from some Iraqii general how we can't leave because "terrible" consequences would result

The reality is, in 2 years nothing will change, except more deaths.

The administration doesn't care, they will be out of office enjoying the profits from the last eight years

but Congress will still be here, and what will they say? Did they really do the right thing

That is the right thing to do -- let Bush be held accountable for his obstancy.

will they send it right back?

and that includes LIE-BERMAN.

I recommend to you to watch one of the hearings on C-SPAN if you get a chance

It is kind of a microcosm of how the Repugs are behaving. Their talking points and strategies (pointless Parliamentary Challenges, dishonest questioning of witness, not letting witnesses answer) are totally coordinated and designed to protect the Bush Admin at all costs.

My strategy is to put as much pressure as I can on my REPUBLICAN reps and Senators. I am writing my Repub Senator at least once a week -- we have to try to wake them up and remind them that country is more important than Karl Rove/Bush. Maybe it is hopeless but my Senator seems to be getting frustrated w Bush now and has suprised me with a couple votes.

but I also know there are some republican Senators who will also cross the line, Hagel for one

My personel opinion is that the Democrats want to give the impression of doing something without doing anything

A bill could be introduced to start withdrawing now

Nothing will change in my view. We can wait till September or 2008, nothing will change

That is the kind of cynicism that I personally can neither surrender to nor promote.

The only thing it leads to are more Republicans in power. It promotes the "They are all the same" nonsense that leads to apathy and more republicans being elected.

First there are a lot of Dems and unlike Republicans they do not walk lockstep (for better or for worse). Even then I find it hard to ascribe the kinds of base motives to any of them (now that lieberman is an independent) that you are implying.

When I look at Conyers Leahy Webb Kerry Boxer Feingold Kucinich my Senator Harkin etc etc (MANY MANY MORE) I know that they are TRYING DAMM HARD TO DO SOMETHING.

And they are frustrated at every turn by Republicans who are doing thier damndest to protect Bush. ON EDIT -- such as here http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x1325812

Where we do agree is that there are some Repubs who may break ranks in the Senate. And again that is where my effort will be concentrated -- pressuring my Republican Senator Grassley, not surrending to apathy and promoting cynicism about Senator Harkin motives (which I know are sincere)

Best Regards and Best Wishes.

Right now we the administration will not allow people to testify before congress claiming executive privledge. This is a most dangerous precident, and if Congress DOES NOT pursue contempt charges, they will have effectively given complete control to the executive branch. Not just for now, but for subsequent generations, and that will be unforgivable

I am concerned with the position on the war effort and such, and I even accept debate, but I will NOT accept it if Congress allows the executive branch to order someone not to testify before congress, and congress lets that stand. That action will have condemned this country to much worse than an involvement in an illegal war, that action will have destroyed the seperation of powers, and quite possibly the prelude to the destruction of our Republic

Will Congress LET THAT STAND?

We should not fool around - building the largest embassy in the world in the Green Zone trying to keep control of the oil.

We need to bring all troops and contractors and oil extractors out of Iraq. We need to apologize to the Iraqi people and pay them for the damages they incurred. Other nations need to maintain order until the Iraqis can organize and do it themselves. We have not allowed them the freedom to be independent of American control. It is time to end that.

I wouldn't be counting those particular chickens just yet . . .