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Down in the Flood: The Senate's Blank Check for War on Iran -- Chris Floyd

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scarletwoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-13-07 04:08 PM
Original message
Down in the Flood: The Senate's Blank Check for War on Iran -- Chris Floyd
from Empire Burlesque

Written by Chris Floyd
Thursday, 12 July 2007

As you may know -- unless you rely on the corporate media for your news, of course -- yesterday the U.S. Senate unanimously declared that Iran was committing acts of war against the United States: a 97-0 vote to give George W. Bush a clear and unmistakable casus belli for attacking Iran whenever Dick Cheney tells him to.

The bipartisan Senate resolution – the brainchild (or rather the bilechild) of Fightin' Joe Lieberman – affirmed as official fact all of the specious, unproven, ever-changing allegations of direct Iranian involvement in attacks on the American forces now occupying Iraq. The Senators appear to have relied heavily on the recent New York Times story by Michael Gordon that stovepiped unchallenged Pentagon spin directly onto the paper's front page. As Firedoglake points out, John McCain cited the heavily criticized story on the Senate floor as he cast his vote.

It goes without saying that all of this is a nightmarish replay of the run-up to the war of aggression against Iraq: The NYT funneling false flag stories from Bush insiders. Warmongers citing the NYT stories as "proof" justifying any and all action to "defend the Homeland." Credulous and craven Democratic politicians swallowing the Bush line hook and sinker.

To be sure, stout-hearted Dem tribunes like Dick Durbin insisted that their support for declaring that Iran is "committing acts of war" against the United States should not be taken as an "authorization of military action." This is shaky-knees mendacity at its finest. Having officially affirmed that Iran is waging war on American forces, how, pray tell, can you then deny the president when he asks (if he asks) for authorization to "defend our troops?" Answer: you can't. And you know it.

This vote is the clearest signal yet that there will be no real opposition to a Bush Administration attack on Iran. This is yet another blank check from these slavish, ignorant goons; Bush can cash it anytime. This is, in fact, the post-surge "Plan B" that's been mooted lately in the Beltway. As you recall, there was much throwing about of brains on the subject of reviving the "Iraq Study Group" plan when the "surge" (or to call it by its right name, the "punitive escalation") inevitably fails. Bush put the kibosh on that this week ("Him not gonna do nothin' that Daddy's friends tell him to do! Him a big boy, him the decider!"), but that doesn't mean there isn't a fall-back position – or rather, a spring-forward position: an attack on Iran, to rally the nation behind the "war leader" and reshuffle the deck in Iraq.

(read the rest at the link...)


Note that all three Dem senators running for president -- Biden, Clinton & Obama -- voted for this.

I'm in total agreement with the following comment posted there in response to Chris' piece:

There really is no excuse this time. They know most of the charges against Iran are pure speculation, where they are not utter bullshit. It was not that long ago that Gen. Pace said there was no evidence of Iranian government involvement in attacks against US troops in Iraq, a remark that most likely got him fired. They know they are putting a loaded gun in a child's hand based on utterly fallacious pretexts, and they did it anyway. Unanimously.

When Bush opens the third front in his Crusader wars against Islam by attacking Iran, the US Congress will have blood on its hands in a way it did not with Afghanistan or even Iraq. This time there is no shocked nation itching for revenge. There is no presumption of good faith on the part of the president. There is full knowledge of the weakness of the charges. There really is no excuse this time.

shargash


There is no excuse for them voting for this, none.

sw
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indepat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-13-07 04:27 PM
Response to Original message
1. Tantamount to ratifying every policy and every action of this administration from day one:
impeachment is not only off the table, it would be laughable now.
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scarletwoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-13-07 04:34 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Precisely! Well-said! I've totally HAD it with this bipartisan militarism and Empire.
It wasn't that long ago the House passed their own bullshit bipartisan "condemning Iran for genocide" resolution.

Don't any of our damn policians think for themselves? Don't they do any research? What a bunch of useless wankers! :grr:

sw
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indepat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-13-07 04:46 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Hell, Hitler would never have invaded Poland in the absence of highly provocative acts by Poland.
Do I see a parallel here, two comparatively weak nations provoking a military superpower into attacking them? That any nation would commit possible suicide by such tomfoolery is hard to comprehend.
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scarletwoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-13-07 05:11 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. Pathetic, isn't it. I'm so disgusted it's actually making me feel physically ill. (nt)
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MrPrax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-14-07 05:03 PM
Response to Reply #3
41. Superb point...
The contagion of madness as an explanation for history and the acts of complex societies is really specious.

Why Iran would provoke an attack by the US is a bit of interesting madness. The same madness that afflicts Syria apparently.

The whole OBL thing is this form of specious logic.

Here's a guy, set up quite nicely with his little madarrass, hosted by Islamic isolationists who just vanquished a superpower, makes a living collecting cash and doing favors for whoever and OH...he decides to ruin the whole thing by attacking the US straight up.

It's sorta like the Japanese -- who had a virtual smorgasbord of invasion opportunities in the entire eastern part of the globe, not to mention clear sailing in Manchuria -- but instead of consolidating power, picking off European held colonies which couldn't be defended and incorporating the resources of Manchuria -- they go and attack Pearl Harbor and US Seventh Fleet? The only entity on the planet that they shouldn't have sneak attacked from any sane standpoint. After Manchuria, it would have been smarter to go over the border to face their regional enemy, the Russian Bear, who would have been fighting for it's life on another front with the Germans.

History could use smarter madmen. Or we could use a better interpretation of history.

Yeah Germany and Poland -- looked like the Germans were going after the commies after all just as planned and then Ta Da! wait a winter, have a phony war and in the Spring the Germans are crashing into Belgium on their way through France with none other than the highly ambitious land occupation of the UK. :eyes:
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Nikki Stone1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-13-07 05:13 PM
Response to Original message
5. Christ, they're insane! A war with Iran will destroy this country.
Is that their plan?
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scarletwoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-13-07 05:16 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. Well, 6 1/2 years of bush destroying this country by degrees hasn't seemed to bother them too much.
I'm sure they're confident that THEY'LL come out okay.

sw
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Nikki Stone1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-13-07 05:20 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. They can't all be that brain dead. (But it seems the Senate is)
No Senator now can say they didn't understand what this vote means.
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scarletwoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-13-07 05:23 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. They're not brain dead, it's just that the MIC is very very good to them. (nt)
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Nikki Stone1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-13-07 05:25 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. Selling us all down the river for lucre
I'm at the point where I understand those wingnuts who settled in rural Montana.
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blues90 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-13-07 05:33 PM
Response to Reply #5
10.  It may be their plan .
They didn't have any problem allowing New Orleans to fall apart , had no problem with allowing the trade towers to fall . They have no problem sending troops to fight without the proper equipment and no problem letting the wounded suffer in a swill of a hospital . They have no problem with the economy failing or the gas prices rising or the huge corps making billions off death and destruction .

So with just that why would they have a problem allowing more than half or more of the US population being eliminated .

They have their wealth and power and security and we are mearly ants for them to step on .
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Nikki Stone1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-13-07 05:53 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. I wish I believed that you were wrong.
NT
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blues90 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-13-07 07:26 PM
Response to Reply #11
22.  I really wish I were wrong , however
Even though I have seen some pretty horrid things during my life I have never seen anything like this .

Anytime there was a natural disaster there was help on the way , of course this was before bush came along . In 1994 the earthquake in Calif one in northridge and one in san fran were both in the process of repair right away . Today if this happened we would be in a massive mess .

Boxer sent an email since I'm on her list , she said FEMA has no plans for such an event and she waited quite a while for this answer .

Many know by now or at least question what really happened on sept 11 2001 , it is at least clear it was allowed to happen and look at the after effects , someone had to know if these buildings fell there would be toxic dust all over the city .

Even though I trust nothing this admin says I still tried to get around these events being planned or ignored , reason , this could happen anywhere at anytime and this is just speaking of natural events .


I still looked for hope but after a short time I lost hope and now I am certain these people could care less about the masses .

This is a bit of an odd comparision , but look at any freeway , thousands of cars and mostly well meaning people trying to get to work , but ask yourself in the moment , do they care if you crash , they may say oh my or rubberneck but you are on your own in the masses . Now the freaks in this admin are planning , murderous monsters where the entire freeway is deposable with no remorse .

Our house and senate may be on our side , maybe they are building a case for impeachment , so far if they are I see no reason to keep this a secret , so what if they are not impeachment is still off the table .

What if we are wrong and bush goes on for another 18 months , we sit here on pins and needles , stressed to the max hoping . Is this not a form of terrorism ?
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Nikki Stone1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-13-07 08:46 PM
Response to Reply #22
25. FEMA has no plans in the event of a major earthquake?
Edited on Fri Jul-13-07 08:47 PM by Nikki Stone1
What is their job then?

FEMA is part of Homeland Security. It can't be too great for homeland security if a major US city is reduced to rubble and not repaired.

Oh, yeah....New Orleans....
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KAT119 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-13-07 10:43 PM
Response to Reply #22
33. Bush plans on being Dictator-no "elections" only his military rule!!
These murderous monsters need this war on Iran to stay in perpetual abuse of power with every one working for them or in FEMA citizen detainee camps already set up and guarded waiting for us.

As we know, when * declares Martial Law (total control), he can dissolve all the other branches of gov't-esp. pesky Congress- then close the banks to change the currency to the Amero, and anyone who wants to eat and feed their family must work for the Military or go to FEMA work camps.

Fortunately the citizenry is extremely well armed, and when the police, soldiers and dogs come for the guns and gold we, the revolutionaries, may finally fight back....
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Bluerthanblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-13-07 06:19 PM
Response to Reply #10
18. but...
who is gonna clean their toilets? buy the things that allow them to line their pockets?

Teach and care for their children? Police their neighborhoods?

Who will protect them from "us"????

If this is their plan, they are killing themselves too.

:shrug:

i wish i thought your suggestion was bull, but i have to say it has a ring of truth to it.

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snappyturtle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-13-07 06:27 PM
Response to Reply #10
19. And we wonder why impeachment is on the table!
You have it covered.....but there will be more investigations and hearings.
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-13-07 06:09 PM
Response to Original message
12. k&r
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WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-13-07 06:13 PM
Response to Original message
13. I'm absolutely gob-smacked at this. Even idiot psycho knew enough that, "Fool me....won't get fooled
again."

Apparently, the Democrats will.
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snappyturtle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-13-07 06:14 PM
Response to Original message
14. Yes....and here is another thread that was posted yesterday. Do you
realize they did this at same time they cut the rest time in the states for soldiers between tours?


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=2913208&mesg_id=2915733
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donkeyotay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-13-07 06:15 PM
Response to Original message
15. Our war of aggression has had many unintended consequences
I don't think the people who cooked this up ever intended for us to get out of the middle east, but putting that aside, why should we expect we'd be the only players? Imagine if Iran had waged an incredible stupid and destabilizing war in Mexico for 5 years. Would we get involved?

This is a total rerun. I thought they'd have to do at least a few things differently, but apparently not. I can't believe it. Either our country's leadership has lost its minds, or I've lost mine.
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jgraz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-13-07 06:18 PM
Response to Original message
16. Yes, but please don't post any threads knocking Democrats
We wouldn't want to break the rules, after all. :sarcasm:
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scarletwoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-13-07 06:29 PM
Response to Reply #16
20. I wish there was an icon for grim laughter.
As for "knocking Democrats" -- well, I've been bitter and cynical and down on the Democratic party leadership for 6 years now, but I've managed to survive so far. I know how to keep within acceptable parameters.

I just feel sorry for all the poor naifs who think the Dems are gonna save them...

sw
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Wiley50 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-13-07 06:18 PM
Response to Original message
17. 97-0? I have no illusions anymore. Have had few for a while now.
Pandora has no intention of waiting for xmas to see her present

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pandora%27s_box

In Greek mythology, Pandora ("all-gifted") was the first woman. Zeus ordered Hephaestus to create her as part of the punishment of mankind for Prometheus' theft of the secret of fire, and all the gods joined in offering her seductive gifts. Her other name, inscribed ("< >nesidora") against her figure on a white-ground kylix in the British Museum, is Anesidora, "she who sends up gifts" <1> According to the myth, Pandora opened a container jar (pithos) releasing all the evils of mankind— greed, vanity, slander, envy, pining— leaving only hope inside once she had closed it again.

The myth of Pandora is very old, appears in several distinct versions, and has been interpreted in many ways. In all literary versions, however, the myth is a kind of theodicy, addressing the question of why there is evil in the world. Hesiod, both in his Theogony (briefly, without naming Pandora outright, line 570) and in Works and Days, ca. 700 BC, gives the earliest literary version of the Pandora story.

In modern times, Pandora's "Box" (see below) has become a metaphor for the unanticipated and irreversible consequences of decisions.


Welcome to a Nuclear Holocaust
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scarletwoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-13-07 07:21 PM
Response to Original message
21. shameless self-kick...
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-13-07 07:37 PM
Response to Original message
23. There Is Blood on the Wire - IRAN!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFowNFvmUxw

I've been waiting for something to happen
For a week or a month or a year
With the blood in the ink of the headlines
And the sound of the crowd in my ear
You might ask what it takes to remember
When you know that youve seen it before
Where a government lies to a people
And a country is drifting to war

And theres a shadow on the faces
Of the men who send the guns
To the wars that are fought in places
Where their business interest runs

On the radio talk shows and the t.v.
You hear one thing again and again
How the u.s.a. stands for freedom
And we come to the aid of a friend
But who are the ones that we call our friends--
These governments killing their own?
Or the people who finally can't take any more
And they pick up a gun or a brick or a stone
There are lives in the balance
There are people under fire
There are children at the cannons
And there is blood on the wire

Theres a shadow on the faces
Of the men who fan the flames
Of the wars that are fought in places
Where we cant even say the names

They sell us the president the same way
They sell us our clothes and our cars
They sell us every thing from youth to religion
The same time they sell us our wars
I want to know who the men in the shadows are
I want to hear somebody asking them why
They can be counted on to tell us who our enemies are
But they're never the ones to fight or to die
And there are lives in the balance
There are people under fire
There are children at the cannons
And there is blood on the wire


Bush's Inconceivable Interest in Iran Sat Apr-01-06
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=819437

Senior U.S. Officials “Want to Hit Iran” Tue Apr-04-06
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=844418

Larisa Alexandrovna: CHENEY TAPS IRANIAN ARMS DEALER FOR IRAN TALKS Thu Apr-20-06
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=977234

Seymour Hersh said something startling about Rumsfeld on Democracy Now Fri Aug-18-06
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=1936421

So former DLC, PNAC member Abram Shulsky feeding Cheney info on Iran?Sat Aug-19-06
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=1944614

Fuck. Iran has started "war games." Escalation may only be expected.Sun Aug-20-06
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=1949812

Attack on Iran is Coming Sun Aug-27-06
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=1993284

"Grave threat". Yes, it's deja vu all over again. Thu Aug-31-06
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=2022620

UN attacks US nuclear report on Iran erroneous misleading unsubstantiated Sun Sep-17-06
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=2159951

We Are Conducting Military Operations Inside Iran Right Now Tue Sep-19-06
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=2168218

Navy told: Prepare to blockade Iran by Oct 1 Mon Sep-18-06
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=2161779

Pentagon Iran Office Mimics Former Iraq Office Wed Sep-20-06
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=2179484

“This is the largest massing of military power in the region, and it is gathering for a reason.” Sat Nov-18-06
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=2753952

Seymour Hersh: Cheney Says 'Whether Or Not Dems Win-NO STOPPING Military Option With Iran' Sun Nov-19-06
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=2757350

Does anyone still believe the US will launch a full scale invasion of Iran? Mon Dec-04-06
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=2856177

Saudi clerics rally support for Sunnis and Saudi ambassador Abruptly ResignsTue Dec-12-06
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=2902643

Act III in a Tragedy of Many Parts - The US Occupation of Iraq Sun Dec-17-06
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=2935498

Century Foundation Iran White Paper Series Fundamentalists, Pragmatists and the Rights of the Nation Tue Dec-19-06
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=2948146

Oh shit Tue Dec-19-06
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=2944423
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scarletwoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-13-07 08:29 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. Great bunch of links! Thank you for all the great work that you do!
You are an AMAZING chronicler and compiler!

:yourock:

sw
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BeHereNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-13-07 09:04 PM
Response to Original message
26. Insanity for all; fueled by the GREED of a few.
Yes, we will suffer greatly.
They do not care about WE, the people.
Just ask the victims of Katrina.

They only care about the profits they stand
to gain from more war. Both sides of the aisle.

They know that the country, hanging on a thread as it is,
will finally fall into the abyss.
They do not care.
They will be fine.
Filthy rich and insulated from the horror we
will be left to face.

K&R
BHN
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scarletwoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-13-07 09:11 PM
Response to Reply #26
27. Your words are too true, unfortunately.
What gives these "elites" the right to hold the power of life and death over the peoples of the world? We are ALL being terrorized and held hostage by a bunch of sociopaths!

Thanks for the k & r, BHN
:hug:
sw
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KAT119 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-13-07 09:33 PM
Response to Original message
28. Self Delete
Edited on Fri Jul-13-07 09:36 PM by KAT119
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bbgrunt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-13-07 09:42 PM
Response to Original message
29. holy freaking traitorous crap.
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debbierlus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-13-07 09:52 PM
Response to Original message
30. This is terrifying & it shows that NOTHING was learned from Iraq

Omg.
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BeHereNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-13-07 10:30 PM
Response to Reply #30
32. No they learned plenty- that they can murder with impunity while Americans shop.
They are making gazillions of dollars, they could care a less
that the rest of us are about to be thrown off the cliff.
Everything is going exactly as planned.
Problem is, you and I have no say in the plan.
BHN
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bbgrunt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-13-07 10:03 PM
Response to Original message
31. ..and the vote was 97 yea, 0 nay
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farmboxer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-14-07 02:27 AM
Response to Original message
34. Bush knows he can do anything Cheney tells him to do
Bush knows nobody will do anything to stop him, nor will he ever have to pay for his crimes.
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scarletwoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-14-07 09:26 AM
Response to Reply #34
35. "Bush knows nobody will do anything to stop him..." Exactly!
That's what's so maddening! Our political institutions have completely failed us. Our "opposition party" has completely failed us. We are being held hostage to madmen with no hope of rescue from ANY quarter.
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scarletwoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-14-07 12:33 PM
Response to Original message
36. Kick - 'cuz 24 hours ain't up yet, and it would be great to get a few more recs...
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CanonRay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-14-07 01:15 PM
Response to Original message
37. I think we're really and truly screwed this time. Sad.
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G_j Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-14-07 01:33 PM
Response to Original message
38. kick & recommend
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loudsue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-14-07 02:20 PM
Response to Original message
39. K & R. What I wanna know is...did they think nobody would NOTICE
that they just voted unanimously for war in Iran? This is too shocking to get my mind around. Could we have been any more badly BETRAYED by the senators?

I hope Clinton & Obama fans are paying attention here.

:kick::kick::kick:
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HCE SuiGeneris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-14-07 02:27 PM
Response to Reply #39
40. shhh -- the media won't say anything either
what the hey, it's just another green light to start another war and completely bankrupt the U.S., both morally and financially... no big deal
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nosmokes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-14-07 06:43 PM
Response to Original message
42. Kick - Cause ya gotta see it to believe they'd do it again.
Actually, even after seeing it, the believability part is still pretty hard to wrap your brain around.
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Telly Savalas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-14-07 06:48 PM
Response to Original message
43. Can somebody point me to the specific language in this amendment which supports war with Iran?
Skimming Floyd's article I don't see anything, and the Senate's website describes the purpose of the bill as "To require a report on support provided by the Government of Iran for attacks against coalition forces in Iraq."

There's enough stuff in the world to be outraged about, I don't see the need to make more shit up. Does this really have any legs?
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sicksicksick_N_tired Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-14-07 07:25 PM
Response to Reply #43
44. Perhaps, there is an assumption that attacks on coalition forces is an act of war.
I am pretty sure that if the PNACers still seek to expand their plan of war across the M.E., they would certainly interpret the most slim of evidence pertaining to six-degrees financing or whatever of attacks on coalition forces as an act of war. The PNACers are definitely making numerous allegations along those lines.

Hence, I don't think there is a huge leap in logic amounting to pure speculation when one asserts that, implicitly, Congress has declared that Iran has committed an act of war against us. After all, the PNACers merely have to push false flags, incredibly strenuous ties and plain ole' lies to show Iran has a role in attacking coalition forces.

Makes sense to me. Make sense to you? :shrug:
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Telly Savalas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-14-07 07:42 PM
Response to Reply #44
45. The amendment merely requires a report to determine what is going on.
And it is a leap in logic to say this results in supporting the war.

I believe there's a pretty good chance that Iran is in some capacity providing support for the resistance in Iraq, yet I still think that any Middle Eastern policy which involves further military force in the region is stupid.
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scarletwoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-15-07 02:55 PM
Response to Reply #45
48. See my post #47 below... (nt)
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 03:21 AM
Response to Reply #45
49. yes, I too, think there is a bit of over-reaction here, Bush still has go to
congress to get an aye-------
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scarletwoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-15-07 01:17 PM
Response to Reply #43
47. The full text of the amendment is here:
Full text of Iran amendment

Go read it, and then really think about what it means. By laying out this elaborate case (full of hearsay, unproven assertions, "we believe"s, and outright falsities) accusing Iran of playing major role in "thwarting U.S. efforts in Iraq" and "murdering U.S. soldiers", the Senate has left the door wide open for Bush to attack Iran under the terms of the original IRW.

And if you don't think the bushies will exploit this to the hilt to justify an attack on Iran, then you must not have paying attention for the past 6 years.

sw
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ellisonz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 06:55 AM
Response to Reply #47
56. Teddy Savalas and rodeodance are correct...
The findings section of an amendment or bill does not have the force of law and is generally irrelevant beyond providing some suggestion of what the intent of the binding portion of the bill attempts to accomplish.
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scarletwoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 05:16 PM
Response to Reply #56
57. I understand, but "force of law" is NOT the point. The Senate has gone on record charging Iran with
Edited on Mon Jul-16-07 05:17 PM by scarletwoman
aggressive actions in Iraq. Therefore, bush, at any time he chooses, can point to the Senate's affirmation of Iran's perfidy as "proof" that Iran must be dealt with. And with so much disinformation already part of the "findings", do you really trust that the required 30 day report is going to be LESS filled with hearsay and propaganda?

I stand by my assertion that this amendment leaves a wide open door for bush to "decide" that Iran must be attacked -- and that Iran can be attacked under the terms of the Iraq War Resolution with no further "permission" of Congress needed.

sw

on edit: And since when has "force of law" meant ANYTHING to bush?
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Bushwick Bill Donating Member (605 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-14-07 08:04 PM
Response to Original message
46. Where is the resolution for Saudi Arabia?
n/t.
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 03:37 AM
Response to Original message
50. "authorization for military action was stripped out of it (for now),"
also see post # 47:

http://agonist.org/taxonomy_menu/2/24


........This is part of the drumbeat for war with Iran. The bill passed 97-0 and while authorization for military action was stripped out of it (for now), does anyone doubt that the military will report anything but that Iran is deeply involved in giving support to everyone in Iraq, including Sunni insurgency groups it makes no sense for Iran to work with? They certainly have in the past, and while the evidence has bordered on non-existent, there's no reason to believe they won't continue to do so.

So let's remind everyone just how easy it is to stampede a country into a war.
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Hippo_Tron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 03:38 AM
Response to Original message
51. Seymour Hersh predicted a war with Iran in Jan. 2005, yet 2 and 1/2 years later we're not any closer
Edited on Mon Jul-16-07 03:45 AM by Hippo_Tron
And I have great respect for Seymour Hersh. He just couldn't predict that Bush's approval would go down to 26%, the GOP would lose Congress, and people would stop listening to him.

If Bush wanted to strike Iran he would've done it already, it makes no sense to wait this long. If an attack on Iran is going to happen, it will happen under President Giuliani, President Thompson, or President Romney. Attacking the Democrats for stating the truth (as Dick Durbin did) is pointless.

It's very easy to go to war when the country is still shaken from the most destructive terrorist attack on its soil in history, your approval rating is between 70-80%, and your party controls the House of Representatives.

It's a different story when you've lost all of your credibility from lying about the last war, your presidency has been a miserable failure, your approval rating is 26%, the opposition party controls the House and the Senate, and you are defying the will of the American people by continuing to fight the current war. Even if the media is complacent again, America isn't going to buy a war with Iran as long as George W Bush is the one proposing it.
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 03:46 AM
Response to Reply #51
52. Nicely put. I just think Bush has too too much on his plate at this moment

But he has proven me wrong many a time. His 'resolve' is pathological.
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Hippo_Tron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 03:59 AM
Response to Reply #52
53. He doesn't have the resolve for Iran, keeping enough Republicans in line...
to continue staying the course in Iraq is a full time job. Bush's goal is to make it to January 2009 with the status quo in Iraq so that he can dump this mess on his successor.

His hope is that his successor will get the blame for his failures and his legacy will be saved. Keep in mind that if a Democrat wins in 2008, this will be the first time in American History that a candidate will have won an election while specifically promising to pull US troops out of a war. The closest is probably Ike in 1952, but ambiguously promising to end the Korean War by possibly using nuclear weapons if necessary isn't the same as promising to pull the troops out. Bush's hope is that whatever happens after we pull out of Iraq will be worse than what is going on now (hard to imagine) and that history will focus on his successor in terms of Iraq instead of him.
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Disturbed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 05:58 AM
Response to Reply #53
54. "the opposition party controls the House and the Senate."
Dems sure as Hell do not control the Senate! If it did maybe Cheney would have been Impeached by the House by now. Maybe even Busholini would have been although that is doubtful.
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Hippo_Tron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 06:48 AM
Response to Reply #54
55. They control it about as much as they did in 2002 when the IWR was voted on
Lieberman has replaced Zell Miller as our hindrance to having real control.
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countryjake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-17-07 09:32 AM
Response to Original message
58. kicking
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-17-07 09:47 AM
Response to Original message
59. Kick....the more news on this 97-0 vote for Blank Check to bomb Iran...the better!
Keep it going until they listen.
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countryjake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-17-07 10:11 AM
Response to Reply #59
60. Exactly! The complicity is deafening. 97-0, folks!
Is anybody listening? or Can you hear me, now?


END THE OCCUPATIONS!

OUT OF IRAQ, NOW!

STOP IMPERIAL AGGRESSION IN THE MIDDLE EAST!




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scarletwoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-17-07 04:44 PM
Response to Original message
61. Kicking -- because more people ought to be aware of this... (nt)
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