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Er, I know even those of you who use the term "free healthcare" know it's not free.

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Commie Pinko Dirtbag Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-17-07 03:36 PM
Original message
Er, I know even those of you who use the term "free healthcare" know it's not free.
That it's paid for by taxes and all. But really, the mere usage of this term gives the boneheads you're arguing with an opportunity to rail on endlessly about how "it isn't free" and "there's no such thing as a free lunch" and blah blah blah.

So, let's use "universal healthcare," which is the more correct term, mmmkay?
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MrMickeysMom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-17-07 03:41 PM
Response to Original message
1. MmmKAY!
When more and more Americans understand single payer or universal concepts, then the next big task - convincing them that it's LESS COSTLY to PREVENT disease than to treat it under current "health care" (a term we really know means "sick care")!
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-17-07 03:44 PM
Response to Original message
2. oi
Edited on Tue Jul-17-07 03:44 PM by Swamp Rat
Se eu casar com uma brasileira, receberei ayuda da Sistema Único de Saúde em Brasil?

Não tenho nada aqui e tô infermo. :(
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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-17-07 03:47 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. Gah - I hate Portuguese - It looks sooo much like Spanish, and then I spend the next 5 minutes...
.... wondering how in the world could my Spanish have deteriorated to the point of having difficulty with even simple things.

:rofl:
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baby_mouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-17-07 03:44 PM
Response to Original message
3. Christ how stupid ARE these people?

Wouldn't they expect droves of European citizens swarming across the Atlantic to take advantage of the American healthcare system???? is this in fact what happens????

NO!
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jedicord Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-17-07 03:48 PM
Response to Reply #3
8. Well, I guy I talked to yesterday said Canadians were
coming down here, gladly paying with cash. He said it's because it takes so long to get medical care up there. Haven't had a chance to debunk it, but he had already spewed (and continued to spew) BS I could counter I'm sure he got that one from Rush.

BTW, the conversation ended with him saying it has been well proven that Saddam sponsored Al Queda with cash, and we actually went "no it hasn't", "yes it has", "no it hasn't"... Downgraded to a playground argument, fer sure.
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peace13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-17-07 04:02 PM
Response to Reply #8
13. Sometimes Canadians do come down to get tests.
That part is true. Even so, I have never heard my Canadian friends complain about their health-care.
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baby_mouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-17-07 04:22 PM
Response to Reply #8
17. How many Canadians?

Rush may happily uncover 2 cases of a Canadian coming over the border with cash for treatment and say "Canadians are coming over the border for our fantastic healthcare" and be speaking the truth.
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Clark2008 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-17-07 03:45 PM
Response to Original message
4. And, if everyone was paying into it via taxes, it would be mere
pennies compared to the ever-rising premiums, co-pays and uncovered procedures we're currently paying for out of pocket.

I'd rather my taxes go up a few pennies on the dollar and drop the $400 we're paying a month, plus the $15 to $25 every time we go to the doctor and the $800 that wasn't covered when we had our baby.
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Beaverhausen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-17-07 03:46 PM
Response to Original message
5. Premiums, deductables and co-pays aren't free either
give me a break.
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Commie Pinko Dirtbag Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-17-07 03:50 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. All I said is what words I think are best to use when advocating a taxpayer-funded healthcare system
Did you understand something different?
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TexasProgresive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-17-07 03:48 PM
Response to Original message
7. OK and how about
we call them Universal Limited Access Multilane Highways instead of "Free"ways. But then the puklikans are trying to turn all those into tollways.
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Commie Pinko Dirtbag Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-17-07 03:52 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. What's the difference between a freeway and a highway anyway? -nt
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Clark2008 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-17-07 04:26 PM
Response to Reply #10
19. Ever wonder why you park on the driveway and drive on the parkway?
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-17-07 07:24 PM
Response to Reply #19
23. Or crawl along at "rush hour"?
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TexasProgresive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-17-07 08:04 PM
Response to Reply #10
25. All freeways are highways but not all highways are freeways.
Freeways are highways that don't have tolls or trolls.
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Commie Pinko Dirtbag Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-17-07 08:48 PM
Response to Reply #25
27. Well, wake me up when the right wing makes an issue out of freeways then.
:boring:
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TexasProgresive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-18-07 10:57 AM
Response to Reply #27
29. It's only an issue "free health care"because they made it one
And if by some miracle, we adapt a single payer health care system and become a 1st world nation it will be free to visitors who don't pay our taxes just like in the mature nations of Europe.
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Rosemary2205 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-17-07 03:53 PM
Response to Original message
11. That ain't gonna work either
because the pubes think forcing the poor to anti up for high cost low coverage individual policies counts as "universal healthcare". We also have to be really careful of some candidate's use of the word "coverage" - which can mean they think the gov't can offer HSA's to the uninsured and call that "coverage" - politicians are sneaky little bastards you know.

I think we really do have to stipulate "universal single payer healthcare" - a mouthful unfortunately.
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MannyGoldstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-17-07 03:54 PM
Response to Original message
12. Or "Medicare For All" n/t
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endarkenment Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-17-07 04:04 PM
Response to Original message
14. I prefer medicare for everyone.
The corporate fucknutz haved co-opted universal healthcare to mean "gigunda baked-in taxpayer giveaway to the health insurance industry" and I refuse to support that corrupted filth. Single-payer universal healthcare is too many words.
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supernova Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-17-07 04:08 PM
Response to Original message
15. What do you guys have in Brazil?
Edited on Tue Jul-17-07 04:08 PM by supernova
I'm curious. Is it private like ours?

I don't know much about how Brazil operates.

Edit: Oh, and I agree with you on the terminology.
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Canuckistanian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-17-07 04:08 PM
Response to Original message
16. Why this emphasis on the word "free"?
You don't get "free" armed forces.
Or "free" police and fire protection.
Or "free" highways to drive on.
Or "free" Social Security.
Or "free" courts.
Or "free" intelligence agencies.
Or "free" government services.
Or "free" environmental protection.
Or "free" food inspection.

We're talking about an additional government service here.

And it's not like it's a whole other government agency, either (*cough* Homeland Security *cough*). HHS already exists.

And as for funding? The whole thing could be easily funded if unnecessary wars, wasteful Pentagon expenditures and corporate giveaways were eliminated.

That's right. No tax increases needed.
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LSK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-17-07 04:24 PM
Response to Original message
18. .
""Well, it's not free -- they pay for it with taxes!" Yes, we know that. Just like we know that we drive down a city street for FREE -- even though we paid for that street with our taxes. The street is FREE, the book at the library is FREE, if your house catches on fire, the fire department will come and put it out for FREE, and if someone snatches your purse, the police officer will chase down the culprit and bring your purse back to you -- AND HE WON'T CHARGE YOU A DIME FROM THAT PURSE!"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x1353797
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Guaranteed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-17-07 04:27 PM
Response to Original message
20. Mmmm nooooo. It's SINGLE-PAYER HEALTHCARE. nt
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-17-07 07:23 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. Yes, that
Universal indicates a variety of possibilities which may or may not include single payer. Say what we mean, mean what we say.
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muriel_volestrangler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-17-07 07:21 PM
Response to Original message
21. The term sometimes used in the UK is "free at the point of delivery"
ie no-one has to either hand over money, or show proof of insurance.
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Rosa Luxemburg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-17-07 07:25 PM
Response to Original message
24. OK when you are brought to ER you don't have to show your card
As a wee one I was brought up in bonny Scotland with the NHS

It was great to know that it was free at the point of use. That you would be treated. The wainting lists were as long as Johns Hopkins.

Yes taxes are the best way to fund this.

THE RICH paying the most because they CAN afford it


..... repeat after me the RICH CAN AFFORD IT and they can subsidize the poor!
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LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-17-07 08:07 PM
Response to Original message
26. "Universal Health care" is not correct either
when it can be spun to mean supposedly "affordable" health INSURANCE.

Only when universal health care means that anyone can get high quality health care whenever they need to, without insurance premiums or permission or personal cost, does "universal health care" mean universal health care.
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blitzen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-17-07 08:57 PM
Response to Original message
28. Is driving on the freeway "free"? Of course it is....
Ergo, free healthcare, if we ever get it, will indeed be free.

(Interstate highways are paid for with taxes. But no one in normal usuage would ever say that they're not free. Same goes for healthcare).

Or, here's maybe a better explanation, drawn from my personal experience. I just got my 10 year-old son a new pair of glasses. He's autistic and receives medicaid. How much were the glasses? Well, nothing. They were free. Sure, they were paid for by tax revenues. But they sure as hell were free. Free healthcare is free.
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