Just Got Back From The Store..My Talk With a Pastor

My wife needed to make cookies for work tomorrow and was informed at the last minute sent me down to the Safeway store to get the ingredients.

While I was in the check out the cashier ask me how I was doing I said fine and in a joking fashion told him to speed it up as I was watching CSpans coverage of the war debate, the cashier is someone who I know is for bringing the troops home. I lightly made reference the debate has been lively and I hope we at least shine the light on the arrogance of the bush administrations ignoring the will of the people.

WELL!!!...a person in the next line over said the same ole mantra that we cant leave until the job of securing Iraq is done....this person I recognized was a 24 year old college youth pastor of one of the local major churches in my town....Well we stepped outside the store and had about five minutes of conversation then I asked him if his beliefs were representative of the youth in his group he said yes!!...I then said if you and those in your group strongly support this war then why don't you and all those in your group head on down to the local recruitment center and sign up so a few boys over in Iraq can get a break or return home for good especially those troops who have lost their motivation for the mission......He called me an Idealist...I then asked him if he really believes what he preaches or if he is just a coward.


............End of Conversation..........

:hug:

That "pastor" seems to be a shallow twit. And he probably doesn't know all of those kids the way he thinks he does. What a sad example for our principled young people he is.

Damned chickenhawks/chickenshits/hypocrites!

And I hope your wife's cookies turn out well :)

>I then asked him if he really believes what he preaches or if he is just a coward.<

I'd go with door #2.

You were far more polite than I would have been. What Would Jesus Do?

Bring them home now,
Julie

....right?

And I'm sure they could use a pastor or two to minister to the troops. Was he planning on volunteering, or just staying here and playing it safe?

;)

:thumbsup:

I wouldn't think twice.

Army recruiters are some very high-pressure salesmen, they know what buttons to push on these people.

So why not send them to the right wing churches that support GW's Iraq mess.

we have to stay until everything is exactly like he expects it should be?

the old John Wayne movies.

Somebody march that guy down to Walter Reed and let him see what War has brought on those young men and women.

youth pastors like that, as well as the youth in the group. Maybe you ought to mail them a packet of enlistment forms. :D

Now he's the kind of person I wouldn't mind seeing quaking in his shoes in fear of a draft.

I guess you and he both knew the answer to your last question.

Edited to add last sentence.

You should have offered him a ride to the recruiters office right there on the spot. I wouldn't let it go if I knew where he lived. I'd call the recruiter and tell him what a big time war supporter he is and where to find him.

they all seem to parrot the same talking points, I guess the propaganda machine is working sad to say.

That would make you feel good.

We need to stop lashing out at people. And say YES I AM A IDEALIST...what is wrong with that?

If we have an image of how the world can be peaceful then we need say what is wrong with that?

Is war and killing better than peace? Ask that pastor that. Didn't Jesus teach about peace?

You have to look them right in the eye and say with all kindness...

"Shooting children and civilians does not make any of us safer, promote freedom or quell people's anger with America. We are the problem."

fashion really just confirms everything about the motives of those grifters

Even when I was a believer, I found about 90% of all clergy to be full of B.S.

Though I don't agree with his reasoning, I do agree with him that the question put forth to him was extremist and irrational.

It's actually completely ridiculous in premise.

The OP had an opportunity to try and discuss things rationally with the Pastor and maybe even get him to have something to think about afterwards, but instead blew the opportunity by issuing something even more extreme and illogical than what the Pastor had said to begin with.

No way I'm going to put my support behind a premise of such extremity and logical emptiness as "if you support the war so much, why don't you go enlist!".

It's just so damn stupid.

when you approach a Green Party member who might be persuaded to vote Democratic, and open with "Fuck Nader."

Extremity and logical emptiness.

Talk the talk. Walk the walk.

It's that goddamn simple.

So, he's 24, perfect military age. If he supports the war, why *doesn't* he enlist? Then maybe my brother, who is going in three weeks for an 18-month second tour wouldn't have to go back to Bush's hellhole.

Don't even have to look at the right side of the screen to know who always posts the contrarian opinion.

People continue dying everyday because of his unconditional support for the war. US troops have their deployments extended time after time because the US Army hasn't met recruitment targets. There is no better group to help remedy this situation than the supporters of the war, especially those young enough to enlist ( currently up to the age of 40 ) rather than rely on the poor, the black, the latino, the economically marginised.

You say that calling him on his chickenhawk bullshit is somehow unacceptable, no one in their right mind would agree with your premise.

Continuing to support the war is extremist and irrational.

If someone issued some extremist declaration that I should, they'd be just as moronic as saying the equivalent towards the war.

the comparison is fatuous, there is a much shorter period to prepare as an infantryman and there is a much lower entry requirement.

I have my own direct experience of these cowards, there is no other way to describe them, who will not serve. They are morally and ethically bankrupt.

They need researchers!

I believe in eating food - yet I have yet to become a farmer (Oops one almost growing tomato plant - but that might not qualify me as an ag worker)

You support stem cell research. You can show your support through making donations to such causes, through signing petitions to have legislative branches support it etc.

But the big problem with these rabid ultra ProWar people is that they do not have to do a damn thing to support the war other than mouthing off about it.

It is more than likely that somewhere somehow the government is even supporting these people - if not outright then through the tax write offs that come their way under the idea that Churches should not pay taxes. (The IRS comes down occassionally on left wing Churches but you rarely hear about any attempts made to see that the ultra right loses their tax bennies)

If you say you support the War, then I think that you should
1) either be paying twenty times as much in taxes (as that is what it's gonna take to pay for this losing venture
or
2) go and enlist

I don't have to donate to stem cell research either, and can simply preach that it's a great cause.

Furthermore, it is odd that you tried showing the difference between the two by stating the things I could do such as donating etc, yet the freepers do the same as well by donating to candidates who will continue the war, signing petitions towards the same, and lobbying legislators as well. So how was that supposed to show they are different when if anything you showed them to be the same?

Obviously I'm 100% against their ignorance and logic in how they support this war. But I'm also 100% against such blindingly illogical and extremist sentiments such as "if you support the war, then enlist!", since the premise itself is just asinine.

Just words and petitions. Supporting cell stem research is not something that involves the nation and its survival as a whole. (Though there are obvious survival issues for that percentage of us who have certain ailments.)

All through history, When it came to war, the populace took the burden of supporting the war and extended it with the notion that true support meant enlisting.

Period.


How many people lost loved ones in this country because the person involved enlisted? (In fact part of the whole brouhaha over Tillman is that the man went and enlisrted for a cause he believed in.)

Part of my initial argument should have been that causes that are deemed patriotic require participation and honoring your duty to fulfill the contract to the nation..

Just as causes that are familial require the same.

I believe in people supporting famiy members - but that means nothing if I don't hold down a job and put a roof over my family and food on the table.

Same with war matters.

Petitions ARE enough when it comes to cell stem research or wanting open space, or a decent humane society shelter.

But patriotic causes - a cause that involves the survival of your country - if that is what these people believe is at stake (and if you have ever talked to them - they are being told by their ministers that unless every last Muslim is killed - then we are all going to die - just as the fanatical Muslims preach to their congregation the same thing about us) then they SHOULD be at least thinking about enlisting.

Just as if they are thinking about getting married, then they should be thinking about holding down a job.

Asinine is in the eye of the beholder.

Case in point...

and a hug for going out at night to help your wife. ;)))

What the f*** is so Idealist about his ass enlisting??? He could do it! It's not impossible!

... The sooner they die, the sooner they get to meet god, after all. And suckle from HIS infinite bosom, and all that silliness.

We'll then see how much "support" there is for this war from people like him. What a fucking hypocrite chickenhawk coward.

I would have asked him to explain that.