Honest question - why can't the Dems just shut down the gov't

until they get what they want on Iraq?

against government even more and they will blame us.

I say do it.

Halt everything until the troops come home.

They can turn off the power to the white house if they want.

Do it.

It. won't. work.

Bake

There's a reason it's called the Third Rail, and the Pukes well know it.

Bake

Why are so many Democrats afraid to fight?

While they did hold onto the house, it saved Clinton's presidency.

It would be a gamble, and not one that would pay off, in my opinion.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

They've been doing their best to destroy the government since they stole the Presidency

Repugs did it back in 97 to Clinton and were successful in getting what they wanted

talking about that this morning - that the Dems don't have the cajones to shut down the gov't like the Repugs did to Clinton.

Who would get upset about shutting down the gov't to bring the troops home, besides the military contractors? Certainly not the general public, the majority want this war to end.

there's a lot of disagreement about the how.

Gingrich sent Clinton a budget that rolled government back, in Gingrich's words, to pre-FDR levels. Clinton refused to sign the bill, and let the government run out of funding. Polls showed that the majority blamed the Republicans, and eventually Gingrich backed down and passed a reasonable budget.

This was while Clinton had low approval numbers, and Gingrich had high numbers, having just swept the Democrats from control of Congress. Yet, the event began a turnaround in Clinton's image, and Gingrich's reputation fell. Clinton won re-election later that year, the Democrats picked up eight seats in the House, and the Republicans were split, with some trying to oust Gingrich as leader. Gingrich went down after that, falling into scandals and eventually being forced to resign when he lost more seats in 98.

That was a catastrophe for the Republicans, and the turnaround for Clinton. Before that, his approval ratings were in the 30s. After, they were in the 60s. Ask yourself if you want to see Bush turn around like that.

Reid's week has been as historic as it has been inspiring.

Let's let the man work the line-up from the pitcher's mound. It's looking to me like Harry's fastball has some real zip.

they need to stop playing games.

This IS life and death.

We should NEVER fight "over there" for just this reason.

It is too easy to avoid facing the real cost of our actions.

We are the government. Of, for, and by the people. Reid represents the most effective stay we have against Bush's war machine.

I like what's happened this week my my Democrats and with my party and with the energy it's infused into the public arena.

And I see very good things coming from it.

than to be proven completely wrong on this, but unless people put their "lives" on hold, until we demand with our day-to-day actions (or inactions) that life can't just "go on" until we STOP this insanity, we will be here next month, 6mos. from now, a year from now trying to stop this shit-

I wish i believed that "procedure" and "law" could do it, but if "government" were that effective, we wouldn't be where we are right now, would we???


peace,
blu

use it, but I see none.

Reid is leading the charge against the immoral war nad doing an effective job of it.

I'm not having a problem with his doing his job and doing it as well as it can be done.

This is a very historic week in world politics.

his job, and I appreciate his taking this step.

I just don't have much faith that it will ultimately change anything.

It may be a historic week in politics. But my interest goes beyond politics, it goes to the military actions being taken by our sons and daughters in the middle east, and the effects of their presence there on all people.

peace,
blu

our line in the sand should be visible to all of us, we need to do what we have to do. ENOUGH.

That seems to be their standard answer anyway.

they vote on the Reid-Levin ammendment. See the Du thread about it.

if all of us really wanted- we could shut down this country ourselves.

We could just STOP- stop working, shoping, driving, stop EVERYTHING- and refuse to budge until this madness stops.

There would be some people who absolutely couldn't 'stop'- but the effect of all of us who aren't essential to life, stopping would get attention.

On 9/11, the push was on to keep everything running smoothly- "Go out and Shop"- was the message remember? Feed the beast.

I've been thinking of this more and more as time goes on, and nothing really changes.

We need to make this the life and death issue it is.

sorry, i'll shut up now.

:hug:

thanks

for asking why~

That is needed more than ever~ we need to keep asking and asking and asking until people can't avoid the issue.

After all, being reelected (and getting campaign funding) is more important than the lives and treasure lost in Iraq. :eyes:

no guarantee it would do any good.

old folks didn't get their SS checks and many that live from one SS check to the next lost out big time. Shutting down the government didn't hurt anyone except the elderly and poor. The reason it worked was the main fact that these people started demading the Dems end it. Do you really believe republicans will bother listening to anything the poor or elderly? But come the next election cycle you can bet the republicans would be out saying, see the democrats hate you they cut off your SS money.

on the 3rd. People were expecting those checks to pay their bills and were told that because of Newts shut down, they didn't know when the money would get to them. Try explaining that to a land lord or bill collector.

to continue on our present course?

Or do the people not matter because they aren't in our faces???
They aren't bleeding out in our living rooms, on our streets on a daily basis?

but then Congress is expected to do something agaist the will of the electorate.

Which is it?

of the electorate, is to end this 'war'.

Just as I believe the 'will' of the electorate was against going into Iraq in the first place.

I'm not so sure, that the electorate cares as much about playing 'parliamentary procedure poker'-

but i could be wrong.


I'm not 'against' what Reid is trying to do, I understand he is doing everything he can according the the 'established' procedures.

Sorry if I sound like I'm "bashing" what is being tried, I don't mean to do that at all.

I'm just not hopeful that the outcome will be anything other than more of the same.

~
blu

much concensus. And I do not think there is concensus on shuttingdown the government.

want it 'that much'.

I know this sounds ....snide... I don't know any other way to phrase it, because the reality of this has been slapping me in the face daily lately.

We want the war to stop, but not if it means inconviencing ourselves. Or rocking the boat.

???

Do you really 'trust' that Iran is not in *'s cross-hairs?

And what would anyone be able to really do to stop it??? Without inconviencing the 'people'?

If they did, it would all be easier.

If you look at the recent polling - http://www.pollingreport.com/iraq.htm - you see:

"Do you think U.S. forces should stay in Iraq until Iraqi troops are ready to defend themselves, or that Iraqi readiness should NOT be a condition for the timing of a U.S. troop withdrawal?"

Stay Until Ready - 37%
Shouldn't Be a Condition - 55%
Unsure - 8%

"Which of the following four choices comes closest to your view about what the U.S. should do in Iraq? Begin an immediate withdrawal of all U.S. troops in Iraq. OR, Start withdrawing troops by the fall, with all troops out by next spring. OR, Leave a substantial number of troops in Iraq, but have them fall back to their bases and concentrate on training Iraqis and targeting Al Qaeda in Iraq leaders. OR, Make no cutbacks in U.S. troops."

Immediate Withdrawal - 19%
Out by Next Spring - 24%
Fall Back to Their Bases - 40%
Make No Cutbacks - 13%
Unsure - 4%

If you had broad concensus on what to do, there'd be no call to shut down government because no such drastic measure would need be proposed. But to do so, in order to effect a change, would not satisfy a broad cross section, and would only serve to infuriate the majority who aren't getting what they want.

Or to the 80 year old lady who depends on her SS and it doesn't come.

We can find ways to deal with this without harming the most vulnerable in our society.

i was one of them back in the 90's.

And my children and i lived through it.

Bottom line was, it got ACTION.

We HAVE to deal with this. WE are harming the most vulnerable in IRAQ- and while we continue to do this the most vunerable of our own nation are being squeezed and losing more and more of the already minimal safety nets left, because this "war on terra" is consuming all available rescources.

The most vunerable in this society are not strangers, nor unimportant to me.

I understand your concern, and appreciate your bringing it up, the issues aren't unrelated.

peace,
blu


(edited to add missing "we" )

Second, millions of people are totally dependent upon the gov't for their well being, in some cases their lives, from jobs to food stamps for impoverished children to Medicare for the elderly. Or don't they matter because they aren't bleeding in your living room. My neighbor is supporting himself solely on Social Security. If that check doesn't show, he'll be cold and hungry. But that probably won't matter because he'll die very quickly due to lack of medication. Are you willing to go cold and hungry or even die to back a gesture which may not accomplishment a thing?

Finally, this is my second ill-conceived, ill-considered, ill-conducted war. Among other things the first one killed my fiance and with him the children I should have had. My husband has post trauma. I don't see him bleed; I do have to listen to him scream thanks to the nightmares about events 35 years old - events he can't forget. I have to go with him to VA counseling once a month. Been to a VA hospital lately? I don't recommend it - ain't pretty. In short, I have a working knowledge of what war does, so don't get righteous with me about it.

your enemy-
and i am profoundly well aquainted with PTSD, trauma, Vietnam's effects- the lives it destroyed and continues to destroy.

I'm also very well aware of what being totally dependent on public assistance is like. I'm not going to waste your time going into my particulars, but i assure you, i'm not talking out of my ass.

How long do you think this country would allow a 'citizen-strike' to go on for? If you and i and everyone who claims to really desire that this war come to an end, actually put our LIVES where our hearts are, the impact on the economy and Corporations would be pretty impressive. Just look back at 9/11-

The real fear then was the economic slow down. Please ask yourself what has really changed as we have worked over these last 7yrs to use 'accepted' procedures, legislation, voting, volunteering etc, to correct the direction we've been headed towards.

I'm not intending to come off as "righteous". I'm anything but- i'm weary. i'm raw. i've considered giving farce called 'life' up more times than i want to admit.

What we are doing isn't working. Even when we 'win' we don't succeed.

Why is * still in control? Why can cheney just blow off congress? What does 'the will of the people' matter if WE aren't the ones allowed to make decisions which WE have to do the actual work of carrying out???

THIS is happening DAILY, because of our inability to stop *

There are 15 other bills that have passed out of the House:


The College Cost Reduction Act - H.R. 2669

Homeland Security Appropriations - H.R. 2638
State-Foreign Operations Appropriations - H.R. 2764
Interior-Environment Appropriations - H.R. 2643
The Energy Price Gouging Act – H.R. 1252
The No Oil Producing and Exporting Cartels (NOPEC) Act - H.R. 2264
FY 2008 Defense Authorization Bill - H.R. 1585
FY 2008 Homeland Security Authorization - H.R. 1684
Hate Crimes Prevention Act – H.R. 1592
D.C. Voting Rights Act – H.R. 1905
Rail and Mass Transit Security Act - H.R. 1401
Presidential Records Act Amendments of 2007 - H.R. 1255
Whistleblower Protection Enhancement Act of 2007 - H.R. 985
Reauthorizing Clean Water State Revolving Loan Fund - H.R. 720
Employee Free Choice Act - H.R. 800
Requiring Medicare to Negotiate Lower Prescription Drug Prices - H.R. 4


Reid just tried to bring the Homeland Security one back up...McConnell shut it down. 60 votes for EVERYTHING. Slimeball.

congress and shut down this WH with impeachment, with Nancy's help. Needs to at least try.

Shutting down government is like opening a locked door with a shotgun instead of the tool intended to open the door -- a key.