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NNN0LHI (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-24-07 09:27 AM Original message |
I don't want the Dems to go so far left BEFORE the election that they become unelectable |
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TwilightGardener (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-24-07 09:33 AM Response to Original message |
1. Joe Biden and Hillary made good points at the debate last night-- |
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alarimer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-24-07 05:00 PM Response to Reply #1 |
102. We're leaving in disgrace no matter what |
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Warpy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-24-07 09:35 AM Response to Original message |
2. Where is the center? |
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NNN0LHI (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-24-07 09:41 AM Response to Reply #2 |
5. Yea, I want to get right on all that stuff ASAP |
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Virginia Dare (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-24-07 09:44 AM Response to Reply #2 |
11. Correct, but here's the problem.. |
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Warpy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-24-07 10:47 AM Response to Reply #11 |
35. We're also seeing wedge issue fatigue |
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Virginia Dare (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-24-07 11:01 AM Response to Reply #35 |
41. I hope so.. |
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TheBaldyMan (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-24-07 12:44 PM Response to Reply #11 |
68. on the contrary - the RW dirty tricks campaigns don't work, they still have to steal elections |
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jwirr (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-24-07 09:52 AM Response to Reply #2 |
18. Very good points. |
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speakclearly (97 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-24-07 11:55 AM Response to Reply #2 |
61. I am amazed! |
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Nederland (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-24-07 02:24 PM Response to Reply #2 |
89. That's a list of problems |
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WinkyDink (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-24-07 09:37 AM Response to Original message |
3. Today's "Left" = Yesterday's Eisenhower. So I'd like a little MORE listing, as it were. |
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DemBones DemBones (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-24-07 09:43 AM Response to Reply #3 |
7. I agree. No more DINO presidents. nt |
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Virginia Dare (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-24-07 09:45 AM Response to Reply #7 |
13. Were Clinton/Gore DINO? |
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bobbolink (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-24-07 10:04 AM Response to Reply #13 |
28. Without a doubt. |
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WinkyDink (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-24-07 02:09 PM Response to Reply #13 |
85. Not crazy about NAFTA, myself. And that whole airline de-reg hasn't worked especially well. |
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barb162 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-24-07 04:38 PM Response to Reply #85 |
99. NAFTA was and is a disaster for the American labor force |
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Yael (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-24-07 09:41 AM Response to Original message |
4. It makes sense to me |
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KG (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-24-07 09:42 AM Response to Original message |
6. no danger of that. |
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Lydia Leftcoast (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-24-07 09:43 AM Response to Original message |
8. I get annoyed with people who disparaage "far left" without defining it |
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NNN0LHI (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-24-07 09:48 AM Response to Reply #8 |
15. Its because there is no finite definition of "far left" |
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Virginia Dare (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-24-07 09:49 AM Response to Reply #15 |
16. Exactly Don! |
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Blue_Roses (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-24-07 11:20 AM Response to Reply #16 |
51. Don't you know |
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SoonerPride (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-24-07 09:44 AM Response to Original message |
9. HOW 'BOUT FOR ONCE WE DON'T LET THE RIGHT FRAME THE DAMN DEBATE?? |
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Nunyabiz (504 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-24-07 09:45 AM Response to Reply #9 |
12. So then you mean exactly what Kucinich does? I agree |
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AndyTiedye (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-24-07 10:16 AM Response to Reply #9 |
30. The Reich Wing ALWAYS Gets to Frame the Debate Because They Own all the Microphones! |
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abq e streeter (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-24-07 11:32 AM Response to Reply #9 |
54. Exactly!!! |
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Virginia Dare (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-24-07 01:44 PM Response to Reply #54 |
78. I know what I'm afraid of... |
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abq e streeter (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-24-07 02:22 PM Response to Reply #78 |
88. President... |
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Virginia Dare (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jul-25-07 08:40 AM Response to Reply #88 |
121. So, do you think Howard Dean would have beat Bush? |
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abq e streeter (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jul-25-07 11:32 AM Response to Reply #121 |
123. I think so, if... |
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Nunyabiz (504 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-24-07 09:44 AM Response to Original message |
10. What you don't realise is that the Democratic base IS FAR LEFT |
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Virginia Dare (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-24-07 09:47 AM Response to Reply #10 |
14. I can tell you unequivocally that here in Virginia.. |
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Nunyabiz (504 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-24-07 09:56 AM Response to Reply #14 |
20. Virgina hasn't voted for a democrat president in 40 years |
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Virginia Dare (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-24-07 10:26 AM Response to Reply #20 |
31. Kerry came pretty damned close.. |
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Nunyabiz (504 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-24-07 10:52 AM Response to Reply #31 |
36. well that's good |
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Virginia Dare (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-24-07 11:03 AM Response to Reply #36 |
43. The Democrats are acting like politicians... |
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Nunyabiz (504 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-24-07 11:04 AM Response to Reply #43 |
44. exactly, thing is with as phucked up and things are now |
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ourbluenation (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-24-07 09:53 AM Response to Reply #10 |
19. I disagree. Most people, in both parties, are down the middle type folks. |
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Raksha (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-24-07 04:35 PM Response to Reply #19 |
97. SO WHAT??? "Down the middle folks" are just as fed up |
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skyblue (724 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jul-25-07 06:17 AM Response to Reply #19 |
120. Giuliani's numbers should be very far behind the lead Dem Candidate if voters |
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ourbluenation (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jul-25-07 12:30 PM Response to Reply #120 |
124. I'm unclear what any of this has to do with what I said. n/t |
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skyblue (724 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-27-07 06:29 AM Response to Reply #124 |
130. maybe nonsequitor but why |
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mondo joe (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-24-07 09:56 AM Response to Reply #10 |
21. Measured HOW exactly? |
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Nunyabiz (504 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-24-07 09:57 AM Response to Reply #21 |
22. That is because the MSM dictates whom the lemmings vote for |
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mondo joe (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-24-07 10:02 AM Response to Reply #22 |
24. Please decide: is the base far left or is it just lemmings voting as told? |
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Nunyabiz (504 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-24-07 10:06 AM Response to Reply #24 |
29. The base is far left, and the idiot lemmings will still vote for |
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Virginia Dare (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-24-07 10:27 AM Response to Reply #29 |
32. So, in reality the MSM is the Democratic base? |
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Nunyabiz (504 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-24-07 10:58 AM Response to Reply #32 |
39. Jeebus |
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Virginia Dare (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-24-07 11:05 AM Response to Reply #39 |
45. How do you figure the MSM is making Hillary look good? |
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Nunyabiz (504 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-24-07 11:09 AM Response to Reply #45 |
49. Because she & Obama get 98% of the airtime |
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mondo joe (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-24-07 11:01 AM Response to Reply #29 |
40. So the democratic base is lemmings? |
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Nunyabiz (504 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-24-07 11:06 AM Response to Reply #40 |
47. The entire American public are lemmings being led by a |
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Virginia Dare (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-24-07 11:07 AM Response to Reply #47 |
48. That, I can agree with...n/t |
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mondo joe (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-24-07 11:21 AM Response to Reply #47 |
52. This gets more and more curious. By what measure do you claim to know what |
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Nunyabiz (504 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-24-07 11:53 AM Response to Reply #52 |
60. Just about everything I read says so. |
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mondo joe (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-24-07 12:48 PM Response to Reply #60 |
70. So you really don't have anything to base it on. |
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Nunyabiz (504 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-24-07 03:41 PM Response to Reply #70 |
92. If that is your criteria then neither do you |
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mondo joe (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-24-07 04:47 PM Response to Reply #92 |
100. You haven't asked me, so how canyou say what I have or don't? |
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Nunyabiz (504 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-24-07 08:46 PM Response to Reply #100 |
116. If you believe the polls then I have a nice bridge over looking a swamp |
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Tierra_y_Libertad (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-24-07 09:51 AM Response to Original message |
17. Fat chance. The Democratic Party has always been centrist party. |
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Lydia Leftcoast (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-24-07 09:59 AM Response to Reply #17 |
23. Exactly--a British friend told me that in the UK, every Dem candidate |
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Virginia Dare (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-24-07 10:28 AM Response to Reply #17 |
33. Exactly... |
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Solon (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-24-07 04:16 PM Response to Reply #33 |
93. Interesting, so the abolitionists were extremists? n/t |
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Virginia Dare (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jul-25-07 08:41 AM Response to Reply #93 |
122. Some groups were considered so at the time, yes...n/t |
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emulatorloo (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-24-07 10:03 AM Response to Original message |
25. This is how politics works -- run to the left for primaries, run to the center for general. |
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Virginia Dare (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-24-07 10:30 AM Response to Reply #25 |
34. Yep, that's what Bush did.. |
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Forkboy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-24-07 10:04 AM Response to Original message |
26. Well I would put that particular fear away.You won't be using it ever again from the looks of things |
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bobbolink (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-24-07 10:04 AM Response to Original message |
27. BWAHAHAHAHAHA! |
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EFerrari (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-24-07 10:54 AM Response to Original message |
37. I don't think you have to worry, Don. |
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More Than A Feeling (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-24-07 10:55 AM Response to Original message |
38. The country is already with us. |
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mmonk (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-24-07 11:03 AM Response to Original message |
42. Read my sig line. |
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Perky (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-24-07 11:05 AM Response to Original message |
46. I agree and recoomend |
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mmonk (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-24-07 11:14 AM Response to Original message |
50. It's all in presentation. |
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TheBaldyMan (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-24-07 11:26 AM Response to Original message |
53. so now being anti-war and pro-UHC is too left wing for the country? |
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Subdivisions (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-24-07 11:38 AM Response to Reply #53 |
57. When I read the title of the OP, I was thinking the same thing... |
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TheBaldyMan (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-24-07 11:46 AM Response to Reply #57 |
59. ... or wanting to remove a pair of blatant criminals from office, |
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mondo joe (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-24-07 11:43 AM Response to Reply #53 |
58. I thought the OP was clear that most people want out of Iraq. |
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TheBaldyMan (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-24-07 12:07 PM Response to Reply #58 |
63. hint: Saudi Arabia is right next door and already has US bases built there |
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mondo joe (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-24-07 12:11 PM Response to Reply #63 |
64. Irrelevant. The issue is that while there is a broad concensus that the US should |
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TheBaldyMan (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-24-07 12:39 PM Response to Reply #64 |
66. maybe we should ask the troops patrolling the streets of Iraq their opinion. |
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mondo joe (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-24-07 12:50 PM Response to Reply #66 |
71. You could ask. I suspect there'd be a similar lack of concensus on |
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TheBaldyMan (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-24-07 01:11 PM Response to Reply #71 |
73. In that case, the question should be "How do we get out of Iraq now". |
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mondo joe (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-24-07 01:19 PM Response to Reply #73 |
74. To be brutally honest, the reality is that the electorate is not at concensus on |
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TheBaldyMan (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-24-07 01:27 PM Response to Reply #74 |
76. maybe it's the time for leadership, get the troops out now, discuss it later |
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mondo joe (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-24-07 01:44 PM Response to Reply #76 |
77. So listen to the people, except when you don't want them to? |
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TheBaldyMan (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-24-07 01:56 PM Response to Reply #77 |
81. wtf, who are you to say what the 'people' want ? |
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mondo joe (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-24-07 02:06 PM Response to Reply #81 |
83. It's not me. It's the same sources we use when we say Bush isn't doing what |
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TheBaldyMan (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-24-07 02:26 PM Response to Reply #83 |
90. My suggestion for withdrawal would be quick and ... |
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Virginia Dare (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-24-07 01:49 PM Response to Reply #66 |
80. Unfortunately, nobody is asking the troops.. |
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Virginia Dare (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-24-07 01:48 PM Response to Reply #63 |
79. That is precisely why we are IN Iraq.. |
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TheBaldyMan (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-24-07 01:59 PM Response to Reply #79 |
82. but that would mean the terrorists have won ! |
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Virginia Dare (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-24-07 02:06 PM Response to Reply #82 |
84. The Saudi masters spoke.. |
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autorank (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-24-07 11:36 AM Response to Original message |
55. It's what's always done, then we make the same mistakes over and over |
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bobbolink (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-24-07 12:43 PM Response to Reply #55 |
67. Well, at least it's all familiar ground. |
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LSK (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-24-07 11:37 AM Response to Original message |
56. define far left??? |
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Nunyabiz (504 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-24-07 11:56 AM Response to Reply #56 |
62. well according the Media |
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Individualist (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-24-07 12:33 PM Response to Original message |
65. Americans don't vote for weakness |
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WinkyDink (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-24-07 02:19 PM Response to Reply #65 |
87. Exactly. LBJ was strong, but became a weakened president over VietNam. |
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Individualist (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-24-07 02:32 PM Response to Reply #87 |
91. There's still one tough guy who speaks out for what he believes - Kucinich! |
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The Straight Story (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-24-07 12:47 PM Response to Original message |
69. By that logic, once they are in office they best not 'go too far left' or they will lose the power |
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ieoeja (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-24-07 12:59 PM Response to Original message |
72. No, it doesn't make sense. |
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defendandprotect (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-24-07 01:24 PM Response to Original message |
75. What? Like don't condemn TORTURE, don't say Iraq is an "illegal" war -- ??? |
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Solon (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-24-07 04:18 PM Response to Reply #75 |
94. He's saying that polticians have to lie to get into office, which is par for the course, they have.. |
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Sanctified (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-24-07 02:12 PM Response to Original message |
86. Going to the left got them elected. |
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LWolf (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-24-07 04:21 PM Response to Original message |
95. No, it does not make sense. |
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NNN0LHI (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-24-07 07:03 PM Response to Reply #95 |
111. I think they are all lying to some extent. The electorate demands it |
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LWolf (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-24-07 07:06 PM Response to Reply #111 |
113. This voter demands the truth. |
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KoKo (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-24-07 08:21 PM Response to Reply #113 |
115. Yep....but everyone considers him "unelectable." Who knows why? I guess he doesn't have STAR POWER |
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LWolf (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-24-07 10:45 PM Response to Reply #115 |
118. The worst of it happens |
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OzarkDem (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-24-07 04:22 PM Response to Original message |
96. Not a problem - most of the country is moving that way |
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barb162 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-24-07 04:37 PM Response to Original message |
98. Whatever the position is BEFORE the election, should be the same one after |
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dysfunctional press (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-24-07 04:51 PM Response to Original message |
101. most of the americans that want us out of iraq realize that we've already lost. |
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NNN0LHI (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-24-07 05:19 PM Response to Reply #101 |
105. Most the Americans I know off-line think the new V-shaped troop carriers may help us win |
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dysfunctional press (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-24-07 05:52 PM Response to Reply #105 |
106. the insurgents have already figured out how to 'defeat' the v-shaped hull- |
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NNN0LHI (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-24-07 06:35 PM Response to Reply #106 |
109. They don't mention that on Fox though |
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KoKo (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-24-07 05:01 PM Response to Original message |
103. I'm a Leftie, Don...and have read and appreciated all your posts over these years |
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NNN0LHI (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-24-07 05:16 PM Response to Reply #103 |
104. I hope this doesn't look like I am going after anyone here because I surely am not |
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KoKo (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-24-07 08:18 PM Response to Reply #104 |
114. When you've been here as long as some of us...you got lots of |
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abq e streeter (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jul-25-07 01:15 PM Response to Reply #104 |
125. Civil discourse |
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depakid (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-24-07 06:11 PM Response to Original message |
107. I don't think you ANYTHING to worry about |
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salinen (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-24-07 06:21 PM Response to Original message |
108. Dangerous |
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GeorgeGist (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-24-07 06:52 PM Response to Original message |
110. not much chance of that ... |
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David Zephyr (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-24-07 07:05 PM Response to Original message |
112. Thank goodness someone said it. Yes, I agree with you, Don. |
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eridani (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-24-07 09:55 PM Response to Original message |
117. Anyone who ever uses the term "far left" is working for the Repubs-- |
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Beelzebud (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jul-25-07 01:16 PM Response to Reply #117 |
127. Exactly... Bill O'Rielly bitches about the "Far Left" every single day. |
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mmonk (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-24-07 11:18 PM Response to Original message |
119. Left? |
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Beelzebud (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jul-25-07 01:16 PM Response to Original message |
126. By "far left" do you mean "stand by their principles"? |
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ulysses (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jul-25-07 01:18 PM Response to Original message |
128. I would suggest that we're a long, long way from that. n/t |
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woo me with science (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jul-25-07 02:01 PM Response to Original message |
129. So.....basically.....LIE about the true goals and vision? |
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DU AdBot (1000+ posts) | Thu May 02nd 2024, 06:31 PM Response to Original message |
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