DUing more harm than good

Lately there have been more attacks on each other in GD (and even on greatest!?!?!) than there have been on Bushco. Common' people. The invoking of great people, the attacks on other DUer's the crazy and sometimes just plain outlandish posts are just giving assholes like Comedian Rush Limbaugh ammunition against the "wild-eyed left." And I have to say that if I had not been a part of this community for over a year, a just now came across DU, there would be no way in hell I'd join. Flame wars, bickering and hissyfits all over the fuckin place. And what was with all the MLK, Mandella, and Parks references :banghead: . I am usually very pleased with the discussions on DU, but the last couple of days have seemed like a bunch of Freepers infiltrated us and started posting all of this shit to try to discredit us. Yes we may disagree on issues, canidates, and Cindy - but jesus-tity-fucking-christ people, calm down. We ARE all on the same side, maybe we should start acting like it, again.

disagreement on strategy - To impeach or not to impeach? To cut off funding to the Iraq war or not?
It may seem as if reason has flown the coop. That began when the current administration was regarded as anything but criminal, starting with stealing an election in 2000.
Yes, people do get angry when those in power regard their own power and position as primary and justice as secondary or even an impediment.

at us weak willed fraidy cats who keep pointing out that impeachment is a fucking pipe dream.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

I guess that would depend upon which side of the issues you fall on. Like Bryant69 right above me...he's obviously lost his mind.

:hi:

Just kidding, Bryant.

.

Is it about "winning?" If you can't win, don't try it?
If a foreign power invaded our shores, would we debate whether or not we should confront the invaders with arms - I mean, we might not win, so maybe we should just let them in.
There are "invaders" in the WhiteHouse. They need to be stopped. If you don't see this, you may be a victim of their propaganda. If you do see it, but do nothing to stop them, you're complicit. They have to be stopped! If you don't think impeachment is the answer, offer something else.

Great post.

.

"If a foreign power invaded our shores, would we debate whether or not we should confront the invaders with arms - I mean, we might not win, so maybe we should just let them in."

If a foreign power invaded our shores we'd fight back. But we would, one hopes, try to fight the battles that could be won rather than the ones that couldn't be. No one with any serious desire to win rushes in blind, but works strategically to win.

George Washington didn't tell the troops to simply run up to the Redcoats and shoot.

But your continuation of the analogy implies that Impeachment is "running in blind."
This is a matter of justice. Have you not seen what these people have done?
Who will hold them accountable? Who will bring justice?
They are clearly not going to cooperate with any lesser investigation. It should be apparent at this stage in the game that impeachment holds the only possibility of justice being done and even with impeachment, that is not a given.
Remember: when calls for Nixon's impeachment rang out, it was not seen as possible because the numbers just weren't there - the repubs would never support it, on and on. Because some brave Dems sought justice, they were able to bring much truth to light that swayed the American people and repubs in congress, driving Nixon from power.

But when your most knowledgeable, experienced and directly involved "generals" (to carry to analogy) say this strategy can't succeed, I'm inclined to give them the benefit of the doubt.

Impeachment per se is not "running in blind". But proceeding because you're angry and frustrated, without hope of success, is.

That is the most overused, misused expression on this board in the last few months.

Impeaching AND REMOVING FROM OFFICE -- now THAT'S holding them accountable.

Bake

the only alternative is to move for impeachment AS A MATTER OF PURSUING JUSTICE.
I firmly believe that the evidence is there and if Congress impeaches and brings the information/evidence to light, removing them from office will be the just thing to do and the public will support, maybe even demand it. The repubs in Congress, at that point, will have to decide whether they want to back criminals or justice.

:thumbsup:

Welcome to DU, BTG!

:hi:

the country and shred the Constitution. Besides, we need to focus on the next election."

There won't be a "next election" when these criminals are through...there won't be a Constitution, a government, nothing.

These f*ckers should have been stopped long ago -- the time is now!

If an invader hit our shores, you're damn right I'd be right there with my last drop of blood.

This is politics, and it's like Will Pitt pointed out so sanely and often yesterday: in politics, the key skill is counting (and swinging) votes. But you don't go into something expecting to lose or because you didn't count the votes.

Apples and oranges. But, nice try.

Bake

:thumbsup:

bashing everyone from Feingold to Dean to Conyers to Rachel Maddow to on and on and on.

And, of course, that uppity woman who just won't sit down and shut up, but continues to agitate for the US to leave the killing fields of Iraq, well, she's worthy of pure contempt, nothing more, here on DU.

It's sad, but the folks who are infiltrating are being paid to do just this.

We just need to keep on keeping on. MKJ

no matter if that party is trashing the constitution and flushing our country down the goddam toilet.

MKJ

compete with the depth of corruption and destruction the Repubs have brought upon us.

But, you just keep attacking them, it's very productive for you in some way, I'm sure. MKJ

"This is why the DLC is dangerous. For all their claims of supposedly wanting to help Democrats, they employ people like Marshall Wittman who specifically try to undermine the Democratic Party, even if it means he has to publicly defecate out the most rank and easily-debunkable lies. They reguarly give credence to the right wing's agenda and its worst, most unsupportable lies. They are the real force that tries to make sure this country is a one party state and that Democrats never really challenge the Republicans in a serious way."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-sirota/why-the-dlc-is-so-dangero_b_13640.html

"Without a doubt, the DLC is the most fundamentalist organization within the caucus, the most ideologically rigid, and the most destructive to the progressive cause."

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/5/24/1712/23448

We're much more like a large extended family getting together for the holidays, and this is normal given the amount of stress we're all under waiting for something to fucking happen. Your post is simply another manifestation of the same thing you're complaining about. Welcome home!

Thank gollygeewhillickers someone else can recognize that. All of these posts remanding DUers for being DUers are ridiculous. We're going to fight, folks: we're not freaking stepford voters like the other party.

But, yeah.

I'm shocked, shocked, to see that there is fighting in here.

Ok, actually I'm not. I just know to bow out of most of the catfights, and come back when it doesn't stink so bad.

I'll agree, it's stunk pretty bad the past coupla days. I just don't see the point of bitching about it. It's what we do. If you can't fight in here, where can you fight?

It wouldn't be the first time they did that to discredit us. Seventhson anyone?

At least a lot of them have stars, so DU's getting some fiscal redress for their idiocy. MKJ

and while I don't disagree, it makes it real easy to paint anyone who disagrees with the majority as a freeper.

and unfortunately has been used as a club too often.

lol

And yet all of us...me included...rise to their bait.

As the primary season approaches, you will long for the dog days of Summer 2007.

:scared:

I agree...a lot of things I've read over the past days have gone from differences to downright cat fights...and for what? Besides creating bad blood among people who should be working together (isn't this how it always happens???) it's a surreal little fight that has no significance on much of what's happening in the real political world.

Go out and meet real voters...talk to them...see what they think of the Cindy Sheehan situation, and I'm sure you're gonna hear "Cindy who??" or "oh yeah, the lady who lost the kid"...beyond that there's not much that is said. Most of these people are concerned about ending the Iraq mess...not about impeachment. These people also want help with prscription drugs, education, the economy and many other issues that few here on DU are discussing.

The pressure builds up from time time, like a volcano.

Paid disrupters, yes. But also, the epidemic of accusations thrown back and forth from people who disagree on strategy.
This is unnecessary and is the opposite of a rational strategy session. Picking fights in the foxhole doesn't really further us, does it?

Luckily, it is a small number of us here. Most of the people are oblivious of our travails. For good or ill.
Your point is well taken.

It's fine people like you and and many, many others here make DU also a very rich and rewarding place to be. For the most part, people here can agree to disagree and DU continues to evolve into a dynamic community. As in all communities, there will be "family spats" and times where emotion overtake reason...but there are a solid core of very good, intelligent and engaging people here on DU that provide insight and we all learn and grow together.

Overall, DU remain a very open and welcoming place...a far cry from other political discussion boards that really are echo chambers. We won't or shouldn't always agree on things...but we should always attempt to be respectful of the opinions of others.

The "regulars" here have seen these waves come and go over the years, but there's a solid core of top knotch people who have made DU a positive experience.

:toast:

it's gonna be used a lot as we get closer to the elections.

There's a lot of people frustrated out there and taking it out here on DU for whatever reasons. I suspect quite a few of them ONLY take it out on DU and message boards, since there's not much else they can or will do.

Me, I'd love to see a lot of what people are screaming for, like impeachment, but there's a lot of things I would love to see that ain't gonna happen.

Everyone calm down, please.

Maybe "Skinner" should know what it feels like to receive a phone call saying that your baby brother has been blown up by an IED.

Except, not. I wouldn't wish that kind of pain on ANYONE.

on opportunity.

Time for a change.

The Democrats and Republicans, rulers of the 2-party system, would like us to believe that we live in a 2-D, polarized world. Them or us, black or white, good or bad.

That's not reality. Stepping aside from propaganda, reality is that there are MANY viewpoints, many viable paths to a goal, and "one-size-fits-all"
mandates are just as dysfunctional and damaging to politics as they are to public education.

If you are seeing more conflict between Ds than between Ds and Rs, it's because Democrats conceded that there is no reason to argue with Rs; there will be no common ground. Therefore, the battle is for the identity of the Democratic Party.

I think that calling for party unity against Rs at this point in time is a dangerous path to take. You've got unity against Rs; you don't have consensus about how to fight the Rs, though. If you don't want to reach consensus, if you just want to overpower those who see it differently, you could find your troops lightened by quite a bit by the time you get to the republican battleground. :shrug:

Wondering if some very careful moles have been ordered to start raising hell around here. DU has been instrumental in getting truth out to the American people. Seems likely some powerful folks want that stopped ;)

The Nixon Era brains behind this junta got control of media but didn't fully appreciate the power of the web. They do now and one might think they are using all the tricks they can to turn back the tide and the tsunami that is about to come crashing down on them.

And there ARE a lot of honest DU posters who suffer who Burger King Syndrome: They want it THEIR way and the want it in 60 seconds or less. ;)

Good points, Dragonbreathp9d. But I really doubt all the dust ups are due to real DUers ;)

...or picnic table with relatives?

Every had a disagreement and intense discussion? Every get mad, then hug each other over something you and the other person obtained personal gain, even though you may have embarrassed yourself occasionally?

Well, that's what it has somewhat felt like the year plus I've been coming to DU. That same "in your face" stuff is what democracy is made of.

Pretty good one- "jesus-=tity-fucking-christ"... We ARE calm, for Democrats, aren't we? At least we're not lock-stepping drones without a clue!

Lighten up your OWN damn self, will ya? :hi:.... that's better!

:rofl:

just how long I'm supposed to wait quietly for the secret plan to end the war and impeach Bush, I might shut up.

this isn't the Democratic Playground.

Every post should disagree with absolutely everything everyone else said. This isn't a playground!

:D

Seriously though, thanks for the post dragon. People need to "Get it" that, despite how much they dislike others, it's best to try to reason with them. unless they're beyond unreasonable. Then I try to ignore them....but then I view DU sometimes without being signed in and I still see them :banghead: but for the most part it's better, but it is gonna happen sometimes. Hey, sometimes it's just plain fun *see above* but so long as the person you'er replying to knows it's just a joke and no real harm is meant by it, then I think it's for the better. I mean we're not freepers who wish harm on people just cause of opinions on the internet ;)

Edit: Spelling

See in right wing terms, everyone has to agree.

We don't have that "value." This is because we think for ourselves.

Are we looking for Rush's respect? Of course not! He's a moran! Why should we care if he makes fun of us? He's not going to do anything else. He has no rational arguments. Childishness is all he has. He's going to be childish even if we are all in lockstep.

you must be stoned!
:smoke:
no dammit! wrong stoned!
:spank:
must.find.something.to.throw!
:argh:

The only people we hate more than the Romans are the fucking Judean People's Front!

:argh: