US demands, Europe agrees to provide, info on whether foreign travelers to US are gay, union members

US demands, Europe agrees to provide, info on whether foreign travelers to US are gay, union members, religious beliefs
by John Aravosis (DC) · 7/28/2007


And what the hell business is it of the US government whether a foreign visitor is gay, let alone all the other new information they're demanding? And worse, how is this not a violation of EU privacy laws - how in the world did the European governments approve of this?



http://www.americablog.com/2007/07/post-saturday-us-demands-europe-agrees.html

The best part - they're going to keep this information for 15 years.....WHY???????

Why is a person's sexual orientation considered a possible security threat? Do the rethugs think we're importing gays?

This is obnoxious!

Maybe they're keeping an eye on all people, for all forms of illnesses. With the world's population, it seems dumb just to sit back and do nothing and let people continue to spread nasty things; resulting in MORE people suffering -- and the other fact of drug resistant diseases.

And keep that in mind of the full context. All illnesses. I don't have any, nor do I want any and I'm not going to bandy around with questionable people. And now it's time for me to exercise because I may as well look good for all the women and men who aren't going to get any from me. :P

It just seems lame they want to segregate, but that's their business.

Yes, we have HIV and AIDS here. We've seen drug-resistant strains come up.

The more things are left unchecked, the more anti-drug strains will mutate and prosper.

Add in more people, from different environments, and that's only going to expand the problem.

And given there ARE people, both men and women out there, who have no qualms infecting people with it, and with such incidents being reported in the news, I have no qualms in saying people SHOULD SURE AS HELL be kept track of, I'm sorry.

Maybe if Reagan had actually acknowledged this in, oh, 1985, the toothpaste wouldn't be out of the tube.

If Reagan bothered, a lot of what's happening now may not be necessary.

As for 'unenlightened', there are a lot of things a lot of people would consider unenlightened. Including getting it AND then spreading it to other people without letting them know. If you ask me, that's far worse a crime.

Humans make mistakes. Reagan did. But let's just keep going down that same 'Nothing Road' he had. That's pretty unenlightened too.

What would you do that would be different?

"Proves a lot more" :eyes:

..."who have no qualms infecting people with it" -- is that like those thousands of roving lesbian gangs O'Reilly's been talking about?

Toad, the day you're willing to get a GAY tattoo permanently inked into your forehead (and don't think "they" wouldn't like to do just that to you, me, and every other queer), that's the day I'll listen to arguments for "tracking" HIV+ people.

And while we're at it, how about we tag all of the LGBT people too? Maybe a big red tattoo on their foreheads?

You first.

Red, white , and blue? Or just Red?

So are younger heterosexuals, those least likely to use protection, and other groups also have higher risks for many other different diseases. Why concentrate on one particular group, why not target the disease? Even better, HOW would they know if someone where gay or straight unless they registered for a domestic partnership or are married within their own nations? That further reduces the risk that such people are carriers of HIV, people in committed relationships, gay or straight, who don't "wander" are not a high risk group. Why not keep track of those who share needles, have promiscuous relationships, etc?

So, if they start segregating black people because sickle cell anemia might "spread" then it's their business too? Is that what you are saying, in effect? Wow, you really have outdone yourself this time. Expect tons of flames in reply to that post. Shame on you.

Are gay people the only ones that have/carryspread HIV and "all sorts of nasty things"? So because the obvious answer is NO, why isn't the * cartel testing all people who come into the country rather than single out a group of people that they have persecuted their entire two illigimate terms in the WH?

It just seems lame they want to segregate, but that's their business.

NO! If they want to segregate and discriminate it is MY business, and it should be yours as well.

But what does it matter; nothing makes sense these days and no matter how you look at something, a different perspective builds a different picture.

I'm tired of empty guesses and fear. Sometimes we just don't need to know. I'm going on in life until the day I'm poisoned by imported shrimp, sniped, ran over, dead of old age, or whatever else. I just don't care and I'm going to live, because I want to live, DAMN IT.

I want to know how the EU has this information to give.

Doesn't mean people can't change shopping patterns and all that, but it does give a baseline for somebody to go on.

I slept with George W. Bush and he has a very small wee wee.

:spray:

From the WAPO article:

Dutch lawmaker Sophia in't Veld, the European Parliament's standing rapporteur on Passenger Name Records, said the agreement gives a green light to U.S. authorities to use confidential information for unstated purposes. Stavros Lambrinidis of Greece, vice chairman of the parliament's civil liberties, justice and home affairs committee, warned that it allows extra data collection not just in counterterrorism cases but for "a vast and in some cases unidentified number of crimes. So we have function creep."

"Function creep" seems to describe this process well, on a number of levels.

Drug testing, complete genetic screening? How are we going to insure the information is complete and accurate? Perhaps a good interrogation with water boarding is in order. Welcome to America, home of the free.

That has always been their goal

the FBI is taking cues from the CIA to recruit thousands of covert informants in the United States as part of a sprawling effort to boost its intelligence capabilities.

According to a recent unclassified report to Congress, the FBI expects its informants to provide secrets about possible terrorists and foreign spies, although some may also be expected to aid with criminal investigations, in the tradition of law enforcement confidential informants. The FBI did not respond to requests for comment on this story.

The FBI said the push was driven by a 2004 directive from President Bush ordering the bureau to improve its counterterrorism efforts by boosting its human intelligence capabilities.

The aggressive push for more secret informants appears to be part of a new effort to grow its intelligence and counterterrorism efforts. Other recent proposals include expanding its collection and analysis of data on U.S. persons, retaining years' worth of Americans' phone records and even increasing so-called "black bag" secret entry operations.

To handle the increase in so-called human sources, the FBI also plans to overhaul its database system, so it can manage records and verify the accuracy of information from "more than 15,000" informants, according to the document. While many of the recruited informants will apparently be U.S. residents, some informants may be overseas, recruited by FBI agents in foreign offices, the report indicates.

...

http://blogs.abcnews.com/theblotter/2007/07/fbi-proposes-bu.html

Not quite sure how that info, apart from maybe travelling partners would get into the airlines reservations systems anyway.

It continues to say :

The agreement announced yesterday extends and expands a 2004 arrangement between the United States and the European Union. That pact was struck down on a technicality in May by Europe's highest court, which gave both sides until July 31 to negotiate a new deal.

The United States had threatened to turn back flights otherwise

To which I can only say "and ?"

I should also point out that whatever "Europe" agrees may be set aside by the UK's Data Protection Act.

No knowing the GOP junta they would have to pay for the patches.

Living under the Bush junta is like eating a shit sandwich and every day you have to take another bite.

Just hand over your civil rights, ladies and gentlemen. Nothing to see here. Move along.

its what they are so desperately trying to keep hidden right now, their 'domestic spying' program.

What a quaint old idea. Big Brother knows your every move.

whether it's for health or terrorism -- this information always, ALWAYS has a way of leaking out into other areas -- and is used.

and that's why this is always, ALWAYS wrong.

When do we get the tatoos on our forearms -- ????

How amazing how OBEDIENT once again the Europeans are -- !!!!!!

get with it.....

How is it that the governments of Europre would know the "..religious or philosophical beliefs,...and data about an individual's health, traveling partners and sexual orientation" on any of their citizens???

If I were European, I'd be very concerned that my government even had this information to share!

They might have the records of whether someone is married/ in a civil partnership, but not about whether someone is gay or straight as such.

Health information is certainly supposed to be confidential.

The way I've interpreted this stuff, is that our officialdom is now entitled to *collect* info on people intending to travel to the USA. If they start taking this seriously, then many Europaeans will be choosing other destinations.

I am fairly sure that this crap contravenes some of the EU's own rules, and that there will be court cases about it, if it's put into effect/

It's reasonable to expect governments to know somebodies race or possibly even sexual orientation (due to the recent introduction of civil partnerships and what not, as you point out). But someone's political opinion? That's scary. In my opinion, the only time a government should be collecting political opinions is at the ballot box and of course that should be completely anonymous.

I agree with you. There'll be court cases about this no doubt.

Article 8: Protection of Personal Data

1. Everyone has the right to the protection of personal data concerning him or her.

2. Such data must be processed fairly for specified purposes and on the basis of the consent of the person concerned or some other legitimate basis laid down by law. Everyone has the right of access to data which has been collected concerning him or her, and the right to have it rectified.

3. Compliance with these rules shall be subject to control by an independent authority.



I'm not a lawyer, but it seems to me that this 'agreement' is against the spirit and probably the letter of this article.



ETA: EU governments are certainly not supposed to know everyone's political views. Both the ballot and opinion polls are expected to be confidential.

stipend from Kim Jung-il and the Stalin Estate for making over their homes/purchasing power tools (as needed by the individual) and for Broadway theatre tickets and/or LPGA tournaments.

The next stipend is for appropriate wardrobes and hair cuts.

The third is merely "mad money" and the person is encouraged to use it to treat a bar crowd and/or go to Acoustic Wymmyns Festivals.

Didn't you get your application?

:sarcasm: :evilgrin:

:spray:

in EVERY SINGLE instance. what a horror.