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Did Giuliani ever say "Christian Terrorists" after Tim McVeigh blew up the Murrah Federal Building?

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NNN0LHI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-28-07 01:01 PM
Original message
Did Giuliani ever say "Christian Terrorists" after Tim McVeigh blew up the Murrah Federal Building?
http://www.worldbulletin.net/news_detail.php?id=7598

Rep. Giuliani to Democrats: Use the words "Islamic" terrorists

Republican presidential candidate Giuliani urged Democratic hopefuls to use the term "Islamic" terrorists".

Wednesday, 25 Jule 2007
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tblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-28-07 01:03 PM
Response to Original message
1. Yeah. Good effing point.
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sakabatou Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-28-07 01:04 PM
Response to Original message
2. Yeah, that'll make them love us
:eyes:
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aikoaiko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-28-07 01:04 PM
Response to Original message
3. No, but militias sure were smeared.
:popcorn:
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Behind the Aegis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-28-07 01:07 PM
Response to Original message
4. Not a good example.
McVeigh, while a terrorist and I think a Christian, did not destroy the Murrah building because he was Christian. The 9-11 terrorists did so in the name of their religion. A more apt analogy, IMO, would be those who blow-up abortion clinics. They do that because they are Christian. They would be "Christian Terrorists."
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brentspeak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-28-07 01:09 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. Exactly.
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NNN0LHI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-28-07 01:11 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. I would agree if we had some way to know what he was thinking
But we no way of knowing what he was thinking so I don't agree.

Don



http://archives.cnn.com/2001/LAW/06/11/mcveigh.03/index.html

McVeigh took last rites before execution

June 12, 2001 Posted: 10:17 a.m. EDT (1417 GMT)

TERRE HAUTE, Indiana (CNN) -- Strapped to a gurney, awaiting the lethal injection Monday that would punish him for the Oklahoma City bombing, Timothy McVeigh asked to see a priest.

Bureau of Prisons officials said McVeigh, a self-described agnostic, received the Catholic sacrament of the Anointing of the Sick by an unidentified prison chaplain.

"McVeigh did see last rites which were provided by a BOP chaplain," said Jeff Grondolsky, a spokesman with the Bureau of Prisons.

Part of the sacrament includes confession and an absolution of sins.

Did McVeigh confess to the priest?

"I think it speaks for itself," McVeigh attorney Robert Nigh said.

McVeigh, who made no final statement before his execution, was offered a priest by Terre Haute Federal Prison Warden Harley Lappin. McVeigh said he would consider the offer.

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Behind the Aegis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-28-07 01:19 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. You can disagree.
Religious beliefs
After his parents' divorce, McVeigh lived with his father, and his sisters moved to Florida with their mother. He and his father were devout Roman Catholics who often attended daily Mass. In a recorded interview with Time Magazine<3> he professed his belief in "a God", though he said he had "sort of lost touch with" Catholicism and "never really picked it up." The Guardian reported that McVeigh wrote a letter claiming to be an agnostic<4>, though his execution included a Roman Catholic ceremony.


McVeigh claimed that the bombing was revenge for "what the U.S. government did at Waco and Ruby Ridge."<22> He visited Waco during the standoff, where he spoke to a news reporter about his anger over what was happening there.<23>

McVeigh was considered by many as someone with a long background in the survivalist movement. He frequently quoted and alluded approvingly to the controversial novel The Turner Diaries, which describes acts of terrorism similar to the crimes that he was convicted of perpetrating (Michel and Herbeck). Photocopies of pages sixty-one and sixty-two of The Turner Diaries were found in an envelope inside McVeigh's car. These pages depicted a fictitious mortar attack upon the U.S. Capitol in Washington.<24>

In a book based on interviews before his execution, American Terrorist, McVeigh stated he decapitated an Iraqi soldier with cannon fire on his first day in the war, and celebrated. But he said he later was shocked to be ordered to execute surrendering prisoners, and to see carnage on the road leaving Kuwait City after U.S. troops routed the Iraqi army. In interviews following the Oklahoma City bombing, McVeigh said he began harboring anti-government feelings during the Gulf War.<25> Some question the veracity of this claim in light of McVeigh's attempts to become a Green Beret after returning from Iraq.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timothy_McVeigh


His reasons were not religious, but anti-governmental.
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NNN0LHI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-28-07 01:27 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. But he lied when he self-described himself as agnostic and then received the Catholic sacrament
So how can we know what the truth is?

Don
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tammywammy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-28-07 01:30 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. When did he write this letter
versus his death? Maybe he changed his stance in the face of death? :shrug:
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Behind the Aegis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-28-07 01:40 PM
Response to Reply #12
17. Well, let's take your theory for a moment.
If, as you say, we can't know the truth, then describing him as a "Christian terrorist" would be wrong because we don't know what his motivations were, unlike those of 9-11. Furthermore, since we are delving into speculation, you can't say with an deal of certainty he lied about his being agnostic because he received the Catholic sacrament at his death. A more plausible explanation is he did so out of respect for his parents religion and because he was raised as a Catholic.

The link I provided was very clear as to his motivations, revenge against the government for Ruby Ridge and Waco. There was nothing I have ever read on this man or topic to indicate his "mission" was one from G-d or that he was doing it in His name. This is very different, however, in the cases of abortion clinic bombings. They do this because they feel it is a "Godly" mission. To me, that is the distinction. It is the same, in my mind, when determining whether a crime was a 'regular' crime or a hate crime. I am gay and Jewish. Just because I get mugged doesn't mean a hate crime was committed. If they chose me as their victim because I am gay and/or Jewish, then it is a hate crime and not just a plain ol' run-of-the-mill mugging (knocking on wood).
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demosincebirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-28-07 01:25 PM
Response to Reply #4
11. Good point.
Edited on Sat Jul-28-07 01:25 PM by augie38
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NMMNG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-28-07 01:10 PM
Response to Original message
6. Of course not
Because it's only when they do it that it's bad.
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MetaTrope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-28-07 01:11 PM
Response to Original message
7. McVeigh was an American War Hero
Didn't he get a medal for shelling retreating Iraqi troops in the back, or somesuch?
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NNN0LHI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-28-07 01:17 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. He may very well have been buried in Arlington National Cemetery after his execution
Wouldn't that be something?

Don
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tammywammy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-28-07 01:29 PM
Response to Reply #9
13. He wasn't buried in Arlington
Edited on Sat Jul-28-07 01:43 PM by tammywammy
McVeigh's body was removed immediately after his execution in a government van, Justice Department officials said. They would not give any information about its destination. McVeigh's ashes were to be spread in an undisclosed location.

http://www.findadeath.com/Deceased/m/mcveigh/timothy_mcveigh.htm

But they did change the rules on who can be buried in the National Cemeteries because he technically could have been.


edited: misspelled word.
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TomClash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-28-07 01:33 PM
Response to Original message
15. Rudy is an idiot
It's not like suicide bombers in Iraq blow themselves up because they are "Islamic." What racist crap that is.

Rudy can't tell a military tactic from a chiffon dress.
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pschoeb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-28-07 01:37 PM
Response to Original message
16. Actually he claimed to be an agnostic, quasi-Catholic
So my guess, the Christian religion was not really all that important to him.
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xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-28-07 01:45 PM
Response to Original message
18. considering the life style of some of the 9-11 guys
you could not in all honesty call them islamic terrorists.

they drank, did drugs, caroused with women -- to those who saw them regularly did not keep islamic observations -- much like timothy mcveigh.

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MetaTrope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-28-07 05:32 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. That is a particularly fascinating aspect of the hijackers
It doesn't at all seem to fit the profile of a genuine religious fanaticism...certainly not to the point of sacrificial suicide.

I sometimes wonder if they weren't operating under some other pressure in the years that they spent training to the point where they could fly those jumbo jets. I wouldn't be at all surprised if their families were held hostage in some fashion...and were, indeed, never let go once the attack was accomplished.
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xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-28-07 05:43 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. timothy mcveigh fit the profile of a religious terrorist better
than some of these guys by a magnitude.

for the most part i don't believe religion was at the heart of it for them.

others -- who knows -- i'm sure that's true -- but the 9-11 guys -- not so much.
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