Who thinks using the tax system in this country will guarantee universal health care?

Tax credits, tax deductions, and tax breaks. I'm so sick of hearing candidates and talking heads going on about using our tax system to get everyone in the US covered. They talk like that giving Americans incentive to go out and buying insurance as being the only way.

I just want to scream 'STFU'!

Why should we fork over even more money to the health insurance industry? Their decisions have killed people. They spend the money we give them on lobbying so they can keep the status quo. Shut them all down, take their money and use it to expand medicare and medicaid so everyone is covered.

Next time an insurance company gives you grief, go to Michael Moore's site, download and print his card. Shove it in their faces.

is Cooperatives. Part of the problem, at least for routine care, is that insurance companies get a better rate then the public gets for many services and prescriptions. Pooling resources of the purchasers without having to deal with the issues of insurance may work to reduce the costs that some people pay. It does not help with the greater problems of services that “require insurance” and the uninsured.

I'm all ears.

I'm not saying we shouldn't pay taxes for it. I'm saying incentives won't work, IMO.

Our government should be run like a family runs its budget..

first things first..

health care
schools
housing
food for everyone
efficient energy
etc


and if there's any money left over, then the pentagon can plan their wars..

WE SOLDIERS ARE NOT PLANNING THIS WAR!!! WE ARE NOT SENDING OURSELVES TO WAR! WE ARE SUCKED INTO IT JUST LIKE YOU AND THE REST OF AMERICA!
The soldiers on active duty can't do anything about it. We enlisted to support you and America. It's our job to fight for you physically, and it's your job to fight for us politically. We're doing our jobs.
So, don't go putting us last. You take care of the soldiers. Understand that there is a difference between a soldier and a war.

At least that's how this administration has so ordered things.

Seriously, the VA health care system will work for everyone if it is properly funded. It's a model of what can be done right with "government sponsored" health care.

And, yes, I've received damned good care from the Dallas VAMC. Don't ask me about Tripler Army Medical Center though....

That was my first :) It was everything I thought it'd be.

Your points are all accurate. Sometimes we try to make a point in as simple terms as possible and the analogies miss many pertinent details. Having hung around here for the last few years, I can say SoCal isn't one that would short change the grunts on the ground.
I'm pretty sure that we all understand their is a difference between those who fight the wars and those who start them.
Hang in there with us, we're all getting screwed by this situation. Those of us stateside just don't have to dodge bullets yet.

:sarcasm:

and the word "affordable insurance" makes me cringe..

who determines what's "affordable"?

all we should need is proof of citizenship (eligibility) and that's IT..

Insurance is the PROBLEM..not the solution./

Not even close. The top 10 health insurance companies had a combined net profit of somewhere in the $16-17 billion range in 2006. It was estimated that in Connecticut alone, it would cost $19-20 billion to implement universal health care. Multiply that by 100 (to approximate the population) and you come up with $1.9 trillion.

And, has shutting down an entire industry ever been done in our history? Maybe Prohibition?

To top it off, you'd have hundreds of thousands of people now without jobs.

The companies that really make obscene amounts off of our health are the drug companies - Pfizer alone had $19 billion in net profit last year, which is more than the top 10 health insurers combined. Johnson & Johnson's net was around $16 billion.

Are you imagining that someone is suggesting that all of the money actually spent on health care at present, from all the various sources that pay it, would somehow be eliminated from the system?

Insurance premiums paid by individuals and employers (i.e. with profits from employees' work) currently pay for health care AND insurers' bloated administration AND insurers' profits.

The point is that if you take the bloat out of the administration, and take out the profit out of the health care, there will be more money to pay for actual health care. Even without adding any money to the pot.

To top it off, you'd have hundreds of thousands of people now without jobs.

First, it's not as if a public payer operates with no administration, and doesn't need someone to do the administering. Many of those people could step directly into those jobs -- probably more secure, and with better pay and benefits.

And heck, many of the others might even be offered retraining to provide some of the actual health care services that more people in the U.S. would then be able to access ...

and remember..our president says the economy is booming.. no problem for the insurance paper pushers.. they can be re-trained and find work elsewhere.. the execs can all go straight to hell for all I care.. they've made several lifetimes' worth of wealth..

As far as I'm concerned..it costs what it costs..and if the richest country in the world can't do this, there's something seriously wrong..

What politicians are telling us is this..

they want to KEEP our tax dollars ..to use as their personal slush fund to do favors for their rich buddies, and once they have it, good luck seeing anything tangible in exchange.

but, it's not realistically going to happen overnight - it will likely be implemented over time and in phases. Probably first by expanding Medicare/Medicaid to include children. Then, maybe 50 and over and then finally the rest of the populace.

However, because the various health industries are so entrenched, I see us going to more of a Swiss-like system at first, where the government guarantees a minimum standard for everybody, but many still use private insurance.

It's not ideal, but it's more realistic.

the demographics will make it easier then.. Too bad for us boomers though.. I guess we are expendable.. the government sure loved all that juicy money we paid in for all those decades..

So who wants to step up and pay my medical bills until the rest of the country suddenly turns against capitalism and embraces the "government run health care" that they've been brainwashed about for decades.

Hmmm?? Who?

Nobody?

Oh. Right.

So why can't I have assistance to pay my premium again?

Seriously, I support changes in the healthcare system. However, I don't think it is a right as an American.
Like the Democrats of yesteryear, I support getting rid of the rules and regulations supporting the healthcare system, helping to make more money.
Second, I support a state-run healthcare, if that state so chooses.

I don't understand or agree with the concept of the Feds taking money, then giving it back to the citizens or the states. Based on the constitution, I don't believe that is legal. Also, look at programs the federal government has taken over. I can't name one that has improved.

Another thing that bothers me is that there will be no alternatives, if the plan really sucks. Sure, the rich will be able to buy their own, but what about the poor?

Yes, a better healthcare system is needed. Will we get it with a FEDERAL system? No. With a STATE system? Probably, and, if you're not happy about it, move to another state.

And to dim the possibilities of the future, including those for universal healthcare coverage.

IF WE CUT THE DAMN INSURANCE COMPANIES OUT OF THE MIX!!!!!!! As long as profit driven, greedy, heartless companies are in charge of what health care we get, we're screwed. You insured are screwed, too. You file your little claim for surgery on the infected mosquito bite on your head and they reject it because you had acne 30 years ago when you were 15. Or you rack up a hospital bill of $200,000 and get a bill for the 20% that isn't covered. And forget about preventive care.

that have universal health care, to find out which program works the best. Best has to mean reasonable costs, good results and user satisfaction. We have been so propagandized by put down information about countries that have Universal health care that we have no consensus of what would be best. I'd like to see more use of polling on this issue.