Why Is Everybody Leaving? (Sic)

The Democratic party has always been a big tent... I'm pro-choice, pro-affirmative action, pro individual rights, but after that there is little orthodoxy of any ideology I follow blindly...I follow the same axiom in my "political life" that I follow in my "real life"... I just want folks life to be better...

There are a growing list of topics that I have learned not to discuss on this board... The list includes prostitution, pornography, male circumcision, the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, and the prudency and imprudency of impeachment... The more "nuanced" the subject the more difficult it is to discuss over the "internets" because the internet is not a medium for nuance...

There are a few folks here to the left of me and a few folks here to the right of me but we agree on the "big picture" and that is making this nation work as well for the least of us as it does for the most of us...


If you go I will miss ya... I don't mind the goodbye threads...It's not as if posters don't "know" other posters on this board...

PEACE

DSB

There's little room for nuance on the net...

Hey... I frequent sports sites too and I censor myself...

Who can help but be attracted to such a demonstration of democratic ideals??

:puke: :puke: :puke:

If it was directed at me, WHY??

and I use the global "you're" ... The only way I would think someone was a bad guy is if they were truly a racist, a bigot, a homophobe, a fascist, etcetera...

The reason I restrict the topics I respond to is because I rather focus on what unites us than obsess on what divides us...

Unlike the clown in office I am trying to be a uniter and not a divider...


PEACE

... and NOT personally directed to you or the OP. It's the attitude that's rife within threads on a "growing list of topics" ... such as immigration, rape, the draft, etc.

And folks are very protective of their beliefs as is their right...

... in opposition to one's own viewpoint - DESPITE their patient and articulate expression of their basis for such a viewpoint - that difficulty becomes an INCAPACITY when one equates one's own beliefs to a DOGMA of some moral value. It often seems to me that people adopt such (orphan?) beliefs without sufficient thought, analysis, and introspection - we call that "knee-jerk" - that they're left without an ability to express the underpinnings in a rational and valid way. Without such rational underpinnings, some amount of discretion (and maturity) would usually impel a reasonable person to desist in personal attacks. Sadly, that's not the case.

It's particularly noxious when the person being attacked HAS expressed the underlying principles and arguments underpinning their viewpoint ... and it's ignored or discarded (with the implication that it's a lie). That's just sociopathic.

"It's particularly noxious when the person being attacked HAS expressed the underlying principles and arguments underpinning their viewpoint ... and it's ignored or discarded (with the implication that it's a lie). That's just sociopathic."

It's gotten so I don't want to read half the topics any more, give an opinion, even AGREE with anyone any more. It's become so toxic you have to wear armor just to open a thread.

I too have stopped posting entirely when certain subjects come up. And it's not that I object to being challenged. It's the way the challenges have degenerated into personal attacks. My blood pressure just doesn't need it. I didn't see that as much when I first joined DU several years ago. I quietly left DU about one month ago and asked Skinner to remove my ID. In the meantime, I tried posting on other sites but it wasn't the same. I eventually came back and, furtunately, Skinner didn't follow through with my request. Democratic Underground in my opinion has the greatest, most user-friendly format of any liberal blog. I also think DU has the most well-informed posters on any political blog. No progressive blog seems to have the wide scope of discussion that I see here. Unfortunately, when you have a site this big, there are always some who have a very mean-spirited and and uncivilized way of disagreeing with you. I've seen the level of nastiness and vitriol increase lately and, to me, it's worse than the days when Deaniacs and Clarkies were fighting it out in 2004 and it now covers a much wider range of topics. But I can still read the articles posted here to keep informed, and that's what continues to make DU the best for me.

I would recommend a "manners movement" around here. There are some here who regularly cross the line into "vile" and that just shouldn't be acceptable.

to know what happened to make them go.

I'm going back to the lounge where its safe.

I'm going to the fridge for chocolate cake.
:)

I am new here and within a few posts disagreeing in drafting AL Gore and providing reasons why have been essentially shouted down and called a moron.

Yeah, great big tolerant tent!

None of my issues were confronted. In fact everything but the issues were discussed.

In clear dogmatic fashion, responses read I am right your a moron. Does Colter have liberal relatives?

"Reasoned, focused discourse is vital to our democracy to ensure a well-informed citizenry" - AL Gore

It is what it is...

But if you're a Democrat then you're welcome here...

Even at ESPN the low post posters are regarded suspiciously...

But you have to start somewhere when you're a noob. I hate that noob term. I've been online since 2000. Maybe it's just me but forums in general seemed more civilized back then.

I think that some people get off on starting an argument. For me, the eternal pacifist, it is hard to understand.

supporting Hillary Clinton for President and admonishing everyone in the family to do so as well. Altho I probably won't support Hillary in the primary (but will if she's our candidate) I was accused of brainwashing my granddaughter! To be fair, some posters got irate with the accusers and defended me and my granddaughter. Hey, she's an environmental and human rights activist also and has been since she was 8. But, oh my gawd, bring up Hillary in this context and you've got a slugfest on your hands!

But I may vote third party in the General election. I'll stick around unless I get tomb-stoned one day.

Thankfully, I was a lurker last time around, so I wasn't able to put my two cents in. But, it's just crazy to bash our candidates (I'm not referring to legitimate criticisms of policy issues) when you know one of them is going to be the nominee. For one member in particular to call one of our candidates "a disgrace to the party" was disgusting.

"Hey, let's tear down each other's candidates to the point where we won't be able to stand them when one of them wins the nomination."

It was like the War Funding bill, but bigger.

Many on DU are pissed, and the people who called for us to give the dems time to fix things have gotten increasingly shrill and abusive in the last couple of weeks.

I was going to take a posting break, but I smell fresh air, here. I smell fresh commitment to stop the war and stopping these people from stealing our lives.

All the shrill people can offer now is "The Dems are the best option we have."

If that's the truth, we're done for.

We lefties(who really aren't that left- we just seem like it in these weird times) have to take our party back from the people who don't represent us. As the saying goes:

"America- love it or leave it!
You First!"

No more Elephants claiming to be Donkeys!

I agree with you on all points.

vs. the truth-seekers. And unfortunately, there are more of the former than the latter since the Repukes are by and large all liars and a bunch of the Dems are too. It's not a party thing, it's an ethics, morals, and conscience thing.

There are some left in Congress who are trying to make a difference. But THEY are the minority party, not the Repukes.

And this thing about Tamm getting busted for blowing the whistle is just the icing on a poorly made cake.

This is why we have to continue to fight those who are claiming to be Dems. It has NOTHING to do with committees and setting the agenda because "we" hold the majority. They are STILL setting *'s agenda!!! So we might as well fight to get our party back or start over with a new one of true progressive values.

Hopefully, we don't all end up in jail, but there is nothing left to do but fight.

:evilgrin:

The anonymity of the internet has spawned an entire generation of people who can't have a reasoned debate without resorting to 3rd grade playground tactics of name calling. Some DU'ers have shown great skill in calling anyone who disagrees with their point a moron, an asshole or worse.. a freeper. While the admins will keep saying it's always been like this, they are wrong. It's gotten much worse now that the Dems have won a modicum of power and are apparently afraid to use it. I used to come here every day for at least a few minutes and have spent hours at a time here when there is a hot topic. Now days I pop in occasionally to get some news and be berated by the "you must march in lock step" brigade.

At least I hope so.

It's been fun to watch this place for the last year though. Even though most people here are exceptional smart and exceptionally informed, you still have a few that remind you what's wrong with this country as a whole.

As much as those people freak me out and occasionally annoy me, I treasure them. They remind me that many people outside this community willingly buy into the lies that are killing people all over the world, and nothing I say is going to change that. I have to do what I can to educate people that WANT to know the truth, and the rest have to follow or be left behind.

I'm not leaving DU, and I hope that the ones causing trouble can at least get some solid arguments to do it with :D

If not outright against the rules.

I've learned my lesson about not calling people out, even when it's true. Deleted post, but at least no warning to go with it.

I can say that 1 prominent one has supposedly left with much fanfare, so I can hope for others.

In the mean time, I'm going to try to make people aware of how the FISA event was far more than a single bill that shouldn't have happened, and that making excuses for something that probably killed any chance of whistleblowers ever speaking out again on illegal programs is unacceptable.

Let that sink in, everyone.

There will be no more leaks, because it's clear that the whistleblower will go to jail, and Congress will make the action legal anyway.

We just lost any chance of hearing the truth from the inside...which means * will do 10x as much, 100x, 1000x. Blank check indeed.

My dems, right or wrong? "The only option we have"?

IMO, this is causing the mass exodus. Also IMO, this is not a problem we can ignore, on so many levels.

What is a lockstepper, in the context of DU??

But I suppose it's common jargon these days.

Lockstepper- "You must support _______, or else"

Most often around here, it's a call to give the dems currently in congress more time to do their "work."

Now, last week I agreed with that to a point. Feel free to read back, and perhaps you'll find some of those locksteppers trying to flame me. I agreed that perhaps the investigations were going somewhere and perhaps there would be some teeth involved.

I am fully not in agreement with that now. If we give them more time, they'll find more ways to sell us down the river.

Welcome to DU, btw. :hi:

I lurked for a long time. If you'd like the long story, read my Journal entry. Otherwise it was a simple case that most of the posters were covering the points that I would have, and I was here reading the non-msm news. That changed when people here were prattling the talking point that we don't have the votes for impeachment. That was not being responded to in the way I would have, and since this FISA thing, I can't seem to shut up :D

:D

I often wondered what I'd do when things were hopeless. I'm going to keep burning barns until they take me away!

"Losing all hope was freedom."

Fight Club

But I don't recall anyone saying, "You must support _______, or else"

:shrug:

We have to support _____ position of the DLC, because they won't support us when we need it otherwise.

Gee, that really worked well :sarcasm:

and expecting some kind of intellectual debate.

You can no more discuss issues with some DUers than you can with shit-hurling monkeys.

PU

lol!
:)

I did it!!!!

LOL

That's what I always say. ;)

The Democratic Party is so easily fragmented as it has become a party that defines "Identity Politics." We are not a party with a broad message that attacks the root of the problems and fights together for change that will benefit all. Not anymore. The majority of the activists in our party fight for their pet identity causes. We know them and like them --- they fight for the Environment, racial issues, GLBT issues, Feminist issues, Pro-Choice...on and on. The issues are fine, but they are fought as if their "pet issue" is THE ISSUE and if there is wavering from anyone on THE ISSUE then they are bums, traitors, etc. The "old" party of standing up for basic social justice, against inequality, for workers rights and labor; the party that fought on the fundamentals and didn't splinter on all the "causes." We have become reactionary against our own and territorial on our particular slice of "identity politics." It breeds isolation and dissension. We need to come together - again - on the basics of social justice and the fundamentals that attack the ROOT CAUSE of a corrupt system that will allow for progress on all the individual issues that are now splintered into activist groups fighting their own issues - and sometimes at the exclusion of almost all others. We must become one and fight the system - only then can we address the issues that divide and isolate.

Trust me,I'm not happy about it either.

who shut off the lights and dumped the keg. Not specifically here...but...well...I think I got what you mean.. If it's what I think you mean in the "broad sense"...I agree....:-( Nuff said.

But I understand the attitude you relate very well.

I'm an audiophile and have been one for almost forty years.

On an audio board I frequent I recently made an OP which cut against the grain of the board. I was basically trying to apply scientific evidence, logic and math to prove a point I think to be true.

I was literally called unfit to reproduce due to my opinion on a technical subject.

When I pointed out that was normally the sort of thing said about serial killers and child molesters no one answered on a thread which garnered more than four thousand hits.

And that was far from being the only personal insult hurled in my direction. Like here, that board has a rule against personal insults and mods who generally enforce that rule. And yet in my case the thread was allowed to carry on and on and on and on.

So it's not just politics and personal issues that bring on flame fests, it's damn near anything.

I think it's the internets' fault. :D

Welcome to this crazy place. It isn't always like this. Sometimes it's worse!

:toast:

And I just checked, the thread I mentioned is up to nearly six thousand hits. :o

I started it on July 29..

Controversy certainly garners attention.

:hi:

:)

K&R

seems like a lot of 'long time DU'ers' lately...

:rofl:

Take a walk, read a book, smell some flowers.

I constantly shut this thing down and take a few days away...but then I've never let DU get that close.

This is a discussion board and with it comes the give and take. We can't always agree nor should we. It's the diverse interests and people that make this community so vibrant...and so frustrating. I'm not into the personality and cliques here...and I don't let things get personal since I have never met a DU'er...or at least one that I knew of...in my real life nor do I care to be "popular"...thus I don't get into insult or flame wars. If there's a disagreement it's to agree to disagree...but it never has nor will get personal...I'll click off the thread before that occurs.

These are frustrating times and it's the measure of our community that this adversity will bring us closer and make us stronger...cause it has in the past and will again. It's times like these I think back a couple years...where we were and how far things have advanced...and they have. Change...especially lasting change takes its time...we can encourage it, but we can't pre-ordain it.

Peace To All...

I'm not. I just got here.

to a point where if our democratic candidate is not picked to run for president we will not vote at all or vote third party.

What we need to remember is the alternative if we split from our parties choice. More of what we have now. republik's.

Anyone who dislikes the candidate that wins the nomination and says they will vote for a republican, not vote, or vote third party should leave D U because you are not a progressive.

The few setbacks in congress only means we need more democrats, not less
keep in mind the republic obstructionist tactics have led to our course being slowed.

Stay with us, argue for your candidate but never say you will vote against whoever the democratic candidate is. because then you do not belong here.

Unite against the neocons.
Divided they win.

some kind of level of dissent on issues without the obscenities that are really not helpful to intelligent discourse. Who makes that call?

coinciding with my return--a coincidence or maybe i need to use a better deodorant.