Kucinich make his case at KOS

August 6th, 2007

Alleycat, blogger

This is the fourth in a series of articles on the Kucinich and Edwards campaigns.

When I finally arrived in Chicago for the YearlyKOS convention, I was surprised and pleased that Dennis Kucinich would be a part of the Presidential Forum. I heard he had not been invited, but, as we know, Kucinich is a scrapper and would not be denied.

The candidates took the stage at 1:00 p.m. Saturday afternoon in front of a packed house. The format of this forum was better than any other I’ve seen so far. Each candidate shared equally in the number of questions, and each was allowed rebuttals. Kudos to YearlyKOS volunteers for taking an even-handed approach, one that gave Kucinich the platform he has been denied.

He was seated on the podium with Senators Clinton, Obama, Edwards, Gravel, and Governor Richardson, and he quickly managed to distinguish himself from the others on domestic and foreign policy.

The other candidates touted their support of universal healthcare, but Kucinich actually called them on it and spoke with compassion and conviction in favor of single-payer healthcare. The audience responded in kind with the largest round of applause Kucinich received that day

The question of lobbyist contributions to the campaigns got varying responses from the assembled candidates which reflected the source of their contributions. Edwards challenged the other candidates to forego contributions from the Washington lobbyists, which he has done. Kucinich rose to the challenge and asked Edwards if he would forego donations from Wall Street hedge fund managers. That question was received with laughter and another round of applause.

MORE >>>>

http://blog.pdamerica.org/?p=1258

for saying that people who don't vote don't see much difference between the two parties.

And he deserved it.

Maybe you missed the recent vote on illegal wiretapping of american citizens?

Or maybe the votes over the last 4 years funding the war in Iraq?

I could go on but I don't think I have to. The fact is that voters in this country see little difference in Republicans and Democrats, and to some extent they have a point.

but I never travel over to the Daily Kos, don't like it and don't much care for him (just me, not a comment on the man in general) but I was under the impression that they have never cared much for DK over there thus I would imagine some booing would be expected. As we have seen over the years "our" side had no more manners than any other.

DK all the way for me and I may "waste" my vote by writing him in. So far I don't see anyone else to vote for.

I just don't have too much time for political blogs. Most of my time spent is here and sometimes a couple smaller select sites. What I know of DailyKos is what I read about it from here, so I don't really have an answer to your question, sorry.

As much as I would like DK to win the primaries in the end I will hold my nose and vote for whichever democrat we pick. For the sake of the country I hope you do the same. As bad as some of these DLC democrats are we simply can not afford another 4-8 years of a republican presidency. Voting for a 3rd party candidate or anyone else for that matter again would be a dumb mistake repeated only 8 years later.

after 8 years of Bush and the Neocons, than it was in 2000, when Nader pretended to see no difference between Gore and Bush.

If Gore had been elected, he wouldn't have started the war in Iraq.
If Gore had been elected, he wouldn't be declaring himself Unitary Executive and adding signing statements to practically any bill that Congress passed.

The Democrats in Congress are blocked in, in a way that many DUers don't seem to understand. They can pass bills that Bush will veto, but they lack the votes to override the vetoes. And they can vote against bills that Bush wants -- like the FISA bill -- but he doesn't need that many Democratic votes (mostly from red states) to get what he wants anyway.

Are you serious? They have lots of power, for christ sake, they control 2/3 of the government. Will you people stop using that stupid excuse "we don't have the votes". In the case of Iraq they can simply cut the funding for the war, just like that the war would be over in no time. In this case of the illegal wiretaps all they had to do was not vote for the bill, if they didn't think they would get the votes they could have fillibustered it.

They have plenty of power, they are too pussyish to use that power.

And it -IS- the truth.

People who don't vote generally don't go out of their way
to stay INFORMED either;
they get their "political news" from the MSM, which
goes to great lengths to twist the facts to make Dems appear
just as bad as the Repubs.

That's a FACT. The MSM does do that, and people who don't vote
believe those lies. That's actually one of the biggest reasons
that they DON'T VOTE in the first place.

If the MSM presented the TRUTH, and average folks realized
that there were DIFFERENCES between the two Parties, around
65-70% would identify with the DEMOCRATIC Party, at least according
to most polls on the issues that US Citizens care about.

just ask Jimmy Carter.

You need say no more, my friend. Message understood. :hug:

It's very true. Those who speak the truth are despised and it is frequently shown by derision and ridicule.

that there's little difference between the two parties, not arguing against it.

... they pretend that the 60% who don't vote are "moderates" or "centrists" or the "muddled middle." The point that Kucinich makes about these people not seeing much of a difference between the two major parties SHINES A LIGHT ON THAT BULLSHIT!

There is no way in hell that anyone can be in any (purported) "middle" and simultaneously regard the difference between parties to be vanishingly small. If ANYTHING, it proves that the people who're turned off are far more progressive and demanding of integrity than what they see coming out of the 'political class.'

To admit this, however, would make it far more obvious that both corporate parties (yes, political parties ARE corporations!) have turned their backs on the concerns of working Americans who are held to far higher standards in their own jobs than any standard to which they see the political class held.

Over and over and over and over I read the FALSEHOOD that a politician must appeal to this 'middle' ... and the presumption that unaffiliated voters (independents) are somewhere in-between the 'D' and the 'R' ... and (imho) NOTHING could be further from the truth.

There's a self-delusion taking place ... even on DU. People seem to take cover and concealment under the (false) banner of 'centrist' or 'moderate' solely to escape the accusation that they're 'extreme' or 'radical' ... yet EVERY analysis of the positions DUers take in the individual issues places the vast majority on the "far left" (a label that demeans the human conscience!) ... far more liberal/progressive than any candidate ... even Kucinich.

They "went back to the land" in the early 70s, and built themselves a life completely independent of "the system". They are self-contained, self-sufficient, and completely "off the grid" except for having a telephone.

They grow their own food, use solar power exclusively, and barter for what few needs they can't provide for from their own land. And they refuse to vote on the principle that "they're ALL crooks".

However, back in 2002, after much pleading and prodding and nagging from political activist me, they finally agreed to register to vote in order to cast their ballots for Paul Wellstone. I had finally managed to convince them that Wellstone was a politician of a different stripe, and that it was truly crucial to the future of our country that we return him to the Senate.

Well, thanks to a suspiciously well-timed plane crash, bringing my friends to the polls went completely out the window. They returned to their adamant non-voting stance, and that's where they remain to this day.

They are NOT "moderates" by any definition. They are culturally and socially enlightened folks who have absolutely no faith in our political system. Not only do I not blame them at all for their assessment, I'm pretty much ready to join them.

sw

My guess is their lives have been a lot more fulfilling than that of consumers. I remember the shock I felt when I first heard a pundit call citizens "consumers". Didn't realize at the time how appropriate the term really was.
They should write up their experiences for the rest of us. Tricks and Traps of Life Off Grid. Hippies for Dummies, that kind of thing. If it's super simple, all the better.

Confirms my impressions too.

-20, -20 here:-)

When people get beyond the talking points - when they're not really dressed up and ready to play Full Contact Politics - they almost all agree closely on some pretty fundamental liberal positions. It's when they go into Partisan Mode that the canned bullshit comes out - stuff that clogs up the thinking.

It's particularly obvious on DU ... expecially on something that does a relatively decent job of depiciting the spectrum of stances on a variety of issues like the Political Compass. Some folks sneer at it but NOBODY offers anything approaching it in quality.

So, I'm pretty convinced that most folks pick labels like 'centrist' because they want to appear more "reasonable" to others ... and that label seems to carry that cachet. Thus, it's about appearance, not substance.

I think that view often comes from people who don't closely follow politics and the issues though. But it also comes from people with much more radical ideas of change that either party proposes. To those people, yes, there doesn't seem much difference.

almost 100% with DK. There are a few things but in the long scheme they don't amount to much. He calls it like he sees it and there are an awful lot of people out here who hear him and agree with him. Now if we could just get them to vote for him instead of buying into the "unelectable" meme...

It is amazing to me that after all these years there is a voice out there that I like, one that is for the people and one whom I actually agree with most of the time. Go Dennis.

As for the "unelectable" smear, people who buy into that are following the dictates of the MSM and DLC. I'll vote DK in '08.

Kucinich is the one who will work for our country not some shadowy third government that is attempting to take over the whole world including our nation.

For all the bitching people do at "the democrats", they miss the diamonds in the stream. Kooch is one of them. He says, and more importantly does, all the right things but will always be a marginal player because apparently it is hard to recognize a true liberal when you see one.

It's those pesky "issues" again. When will the unelectable Keebler elf learn that issues have nothing to do with it. We're electing a product, not a president, so it's the marketing that matters.

Survey of Public Attitudes Makes Kucinich the Runaway Leader on the Issues

CLEVELAND, Aug. 3 /PRNewswire-USNewswire/-- In the political equivalent
of a "blind taste test" taken by more than 67,000 participants, an
independent website surveying public attitudes on various issues is
reporting that Ohio Congressman and Democratic Presidential candidate
Dennis Kucinich is the first choice of a phenomenal 53% of respondents.

No other candidate, Democrat or Republican, even reaches double digits.

More...
http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=109&STORY=/www/story/08-03-2007/0004639047&EDATE=

when will we learn

He also tell us where he stands on a whole slew of issues, in detail.

he's got my vote, because he actually takes a stand on issues, and I agree with his stand.

Get with the program, John Q. Where are your priorities?
(By the way, the myth that the taller candidate always wins is just that -- a myth)

Actually, among other things, Kucinich had a genuine working-class upbringing. Similar to Wellstone (whose mom worked in a cafeteria if I remember correctly), he has a real sense of what bedrock Americans have to contend with.

I'm glad you caught me in time. I was just about to give Dennis some money. Guess I'll send it to the Cattlemen's Association instead.

And he's looking better than he did 4 years ago. His presentation has gotten better too.
This must be why he's now experiencing a 100% growth in the polls compared to last time.

:dunce:

Elizabeth Kucinich is 6'.

Kucinich is the man for me!
Very interesting survey. What if our elections were like that: punch in how you stand on issues and then the appropriate candidate is selected. That would bypass all the drek that goes into voter's minds and poisons them from making the best choice.

for christsakes the ham & eggers in flyover country put the texas moron in the white house TWICE (with a little help from diebold & co.).

It would be nice if there were actual debates, and issues mattered more than marketing. But it'd be nice if my kitty-kat could fly too ...

How *Dare* he hintimate there may not be that much difference.

"The truth will set you free, but first it will make you miserable."

"who don't vote don't see much difference between the two parties."

Considering that about 60% of Americans who could vote don't, Kucinich has a cruicial point and it something I see a great deal.

Every election cycle, I go out to register people and I find most people do not care because in most cases they see rather wealthy people who are out of touch in many ways with how most of us live and work. They see people who will say anything to get the vote then they forget about what they got that vote for.

If the Democratic Party could tap into the millions who feel they have no stake in the game and get them involved..That could make all the difference.

But to do that, you have to actually come with a program that addresses the needs of that 60%. And even before that you have to understand that most of that 60% is working harder and making less. Most of that 60% doesn't have health insurance.

Most of that 60% found their college dreams dashed by lack of funds.
Most of that 60% has seen the jobs leave, the streets decay and the school close.

Most of that 60% don't own stock and don't belong to a country.
Just about all of that 60% is paying the freight for the freeloader class that the Republicans work for, just like all of us who are involved do.

We cannot get that 60% by trying to be Republican-Lite, and that is what the many who feel left out believe about the Democratic Party. They feel that we are the other party of organized capital in this country.

If we are going to win in 2008, we need to remember this.

or Gravel I will not be voting. I know a whole bunch of democrats who feel the same.

Absolutely!

And, where are the Dems on the ground? I spent many, many hours, leafletting and registering and LISTENING to people in a poor neighborhood in 06. I NEVER saw ONE OTHER DEM CANVASSING! NEVER! They were in the "good neighborhoods". That said it all to me!

"They see people who will say anything to get the vote then they forget about what they got that vote for.
If the Democratic Party could tap into the millions who feel they have no stake in the game and get them involved..That could make all the difference."

Could you please head up the DEM party? Seriously, this is SO RIGHT ON! Have you considered at least running for local Dem party positions? Could you get support for your ideas?

I'm very serious. I would LOVE to see someone with your ideas become a county chair, state chair, etc!

:toast:

What you've written is wonderful, and I not only agree totally, I would like to see your words get more exposure!

I am involved in my local town committee. As expected, being for Kucinich gets you some funny looks. However the Democrats where I live are quite old school-New Deal Democrats. They believe in the roots of the party.

I will support whoever gets our nomination, but I want Dennis Kucinich and why I want him involves one single things. He's talking about an America for the 21st century. That is a very important theme to me.
I'm thirtysomething. I've built a career and I'd like to start a family. I'm worried about the kind of country that family will live in.
The thing with most of the candidates, not all but most, is so many of them are looking back. They are running on the proposition of getting America back to some bygone era of greatness or a happier time.
Every Republican wants to harken to the Reagan 1980s and fuse it with Grover Norquist's vision of the McKinley 1890s. The "freeloader" class Thom Hartmann talks about. That's no good for the country. That's no good for our world.

Among the Democratic candidates, I find a lot of hope, but I also find that in a sense they are trying to put a better face on same policy (for example: The War on Terrorism). I've looked at them all and they are worthy. I like John Edwards a great deal. I think Barack Obama will grow to be one of our nation great statemen. I like Bill Richardson's stances on technology and energy. I've gained a new respect for Joe Biden. Hillary Clinton would be an able steward of state (although I feel she'd make a greater contribution as a Senator).

Yet, when I look at the issues and programs of each..I look at the America I'd like see when I'm 60. I want to see an America that reinvents itself for this century. Its sustainable, educated, healthy and has gained the respect of the world by cooperation, scholarship and leadership. That's the America I think Dennis Kucinich's stances are geared toward.

I guess I'm a true believer. I firmly believe that the United States of America is still a force for good. There's a whole new level of greatness that this nation can reach for. Contrary to popular belief we are not dead!
But too long, we've exchanged greatness for hubris and that will lead to the destruction of this nation.

Our adveraries on the other side secretly believe that America can't. They believe that Americans can't build anything. They believe our government can't do anything. Why do you think they are trying to bankrupt it? They don't believe in America. They believe in Americans. They believe only in getting power and the gain without the pain.

WE BELIEVE THAT WE CAN! SI SE PUEDE!

Its that belief that makes me a Democrat. But its the transition of that belief into a concrete set of policies to move America forward that make me support Dennis Kucinich. He's talking about all of us fixing an America for all of us..and in turn bringing America back to standing shoulder-to-shoulder with the world to fix so much on our Earth that needs repair.

the PARTY, and more importantly, the NATION and THE CONSTITUTION!

It's fine that you're for Kucinich... I no longer am, but I'm not here to argue with you about that.

What I want to see is people like you who, instead of ATTACKING those who don't vote, or poor people, or whatever is the attack group of the moment, look at what the party needs to do to bring them into the fold. We've had a Dem party for 30 years that has increasingly left people out. (WHile protecting the corporations!)

That must stop, and I like your ideas. I'm glad you're an activist, and I hope you will consider going even higher in the party rungs. Not for a certain candidate, but to open and strenghthen the party!

I brought all this up after '06, when everyone was so down, and blaming this one and that one. LOOK CLOSELY AT WHAT NEEDS TO BE DONE TO BRING PEOPLE IN, THEN DO IT!

You can see how much traction that got.

And, after '08, there will be the same criticism of this group and that group didn't vote.

:shrug:

"ATTACKING those who don't vote..

But my method of attack isn't with vitriol...Instead first, I engage in first understanding why that person feels they have no stake in this country. That is something our town committee is actively doing. We have council and mayoral elections coming up later this year. The last election unfortunately, most people didn't vote..and we ended up have a Republican mayor and a stalemated town council. We're attacking why people didn't vote and doing something to make sure that those people get involved.

What we got was a reversal of so much good that was being done in the town, especially for our young people.

One of the problem I see with the Democratic Party is that its as become too geared in many ways towards the SUV, Starbacks and suburban set. We've become too much of a party of capital when we need to make a return to being a party of labor.

We get too bogged down in trying to say what we aren't. We need to start saying what we are.
We spend too much time as Democrats, progressives, liberals, whatever you want to call us trying to say what we aren't.

For example: The Republicans say we're "Soft on Terrorism"...
Democrats need to be saying.. "We're hard on bringing solutions to keeping us safe. We brought solutions that can work to the table...and the Republicans didn't want to fund them and didn't want to pass them."

"Those liberals are soft on crime"..."We're hard on creating job. On educational opportunity. On rebuilding cities, towns and infrastructure. That's the Democratic Anti-Crime program for 2008. We don't need more cops on the beat. We need more working people back on their feet and more kids in a good school. Filled offices, factories and schools make for empty jails."

The one thing I find about people who don't vote..is that most of them know the Republican Party is not their party. They know the GOP will throw them under the bus. They know that the Gingrichs and Norquists of the world will discount them out of hand.

The problem: They are not sure that us Democrats will stand up for them.

The Republicans depend on low voter turnout and low participation. Conservatives know that if there is mass participation and education, they lose! That is one of the biggest historical constants of our country.
That is why they've spent a lot money of making sure that their message gets spoon-fed to people. They don't want people to find out for themselves. If most Americans went out and really dug out the differences for themselves, there is no way in hell they'll vote Republican.
Remember, Republican ideas cannot win in a fair fight. Those people can't say what they are really about, because they know its a loser if they do.
Us Democrats have an advantage: We don't have to hide who we are. We are a party for the common man. We're the party that built prosperity at the widest scale in history. We are the party that brought all Americans to the table. We are the party that really stood on the line when freedom was threatened. We are the party that took America from Dust Bowl in '33 to the Moon in '69.. And we're the party that once again will bring America back to the world and move the world forward to being better than it was for our kids and their kids."
We can say that, because we're committed to doing it. They aren't. Why are we running from this?

*I* CAN'T vote, because I'm homeless, so you can have a fieldday attacking me.

I'm so sick of all this.

I'm not going to be reading your attacking reply, so have at it.