I'll stand with the Constitution. And, if this makes be a bad Democrat

a bad progressive, a member of the looney left...a checker player instead of a chess player...yada yada yada...I really don't give a damn.

And, here's why:

1. Neither the Democrats nor the Republicans give me freedom of speech. The Constitution does.
2. Neither the Democrats nor the Republicans give me religious liberty. The Constitution does.
3. Neither the Democrats nor the Republicans give me the right of assembly. The Constitution does.
4. Neither the Democrats nor the Republicans give me the right to keep and bear arms for the purpose of keeping a well regulated militia. The Constitution does.
5. Neither the Democrats nor the Republicans give me the right to petition. The Constitution does.
6. Neither the Democrats nor the Republicans give me the right against unlawful searches & seizures. The Constitution does.
7. Neither the Democrats nor the Republicans give me habeas corpus rights. The Constitution does.
8. Neither the Democrats nor the Republicans give me the right to due process. The Constitution does.
9. Neither the Democrats nor the Republicans give me the right to confron my accuser. The Constitution does.
10. Neither the Democrats nor the Republicans give me the right to be considered innocent until proven guilty by a unanimous verdict of a jury of my peers. The Constitution does.
11. Neither the Democrats nor the Republicans protect me from cruel and unusual punishment. The Constitution does.
12. Neither the Democrats nor the Republicans give us the right to vote. The Constitution does.

The Democrats, the Republicans, the Independents in Congress, in the Executive, and in the Judicial Branches of government, only govern by the CONSENT OF THE GOVERNED...WE, THE PEOPLE! The Constitution guarantees that right.

But, the Constitution is only as strong as those who have taken a solemn oath to protect and defend it.

AND, NEITHER THE DEMOCRATS NOR THE REPUBLICANS ARE PROTECTING AND DEFENDING THE CONSTITUTION.

Yes, I know that the MAJORITY of the Democrats do their best to protect and defend the Constitution. But, with the slim majority the Democrats hold in Congress, IT TAKES ALL OF THEM standing together as a bulwark against the "unitary executive" which now controls this country---a control that was given to it by the Republicans and just a handful of Democrats.

My fellow Democrats--The Constitution of the United States is NOT a chess board upon which pawns (we the people) are sacrificed for the sake of the rulers standing on either the RED or BLUE side of the board. The Constitution is the glue that holds us together as Americans...citizens of a Republic that is supposed to be indivisible, and which guarantees liberty and justice for all.

The members of Congress take that pledge every time they show up for work..."I pledge allegiance to the Republic, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

How, then, in the name of PLAYING POLITICS, or out of fear of being blamed for a terrorist attack that is yet to happen, or being afraid of not being re-elected, or even in order to have one's own party in charge of the presidency in the hopes that, perhaps, they'll do better, can ANY member of Congress---Democrat, Republican, Independent---having taken a solemn oath to protect and defend the Constitution against ALL enemies, foreign AND domestic...

...how can ANY member of Congress, Senator or Representative, support legislation that GUTS ANY ONE OF OUR CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS for even ONE DAY.

Are we really being told that a SUNSET CLAUSE on a bill that allows the government to spy on American Citizens with a warrant makes it OK to vote for such a bill? And, are we really BUYING that excuse?

When it comes to our Constitutional freedoms...our elected Representatives or Senators, be they DEMOCRATS, REPUBLICANS or INDEPENDENTS...HAVE NO RIGHT to take ANY ONE of those freedoms away...not for ONE DAY, not for ONE HOUR, not for ONE MINUTE. They only have the OBLIGATION to make damned sure that such a bill never has the opportunity to even get a vote.

NEITHER does ANY Speaker of the House of Representatives have the RIGHT to take impeachment off the table when the POTUS, the VP, and the Attorney General have CLEARLY committed high crimes against the Constitution. To protect and defend the Constitution, when a POTUS, or any other government official commits crimes against the Constitution it is the OBLIGATION of our Representatives, from whatever party, to HOLD THE CRIMINALS ACCOUNTABLE. If the POTUS is above the law, then the law means nothing.

I'm not a politician. That's for sure. With my views, I'd probably never be elected. But, I know how the game is played, and how it's being played.

But, to me, the Constitution is NO GAME!

And, again, if me criticizing the Democrats who should be standing together for not doing so, makes me a bad Democrat...so be it.

eom

you are right. :hi:

...does that disqualify me from being here?? I have lost faith in the 2 party system quite a long time ago. I believe in the CONSTITUTION!!!

Parties are nothing more than distractions that keep us purposefully confused.

Because I am seriously thinking of registereing "No Party."

with anybody who disagrees with you.

You hit the nail on the head with this one.

:rofl: :hi:

good Democrats, a true Democrat. The ones in DC wh continually vote against the Constitution and the people are the ones that are a disgrace to our party. It's OUR party not theirs.

And, it's time we take it back.

your natural, inherent, inalienable rights.

It's up to We the People to make certain government protects those rights.

guaranteed by the Constitution that help us guard those inalienable rights.

I stand by my statement that the Constitution does not give you rights like freedom of speech.

makes the Constitution great.

that you are entitled to. Thanks. You too.

does not give rights.



Note that We the People through the Constitution grant power to government and in the 9th and 10th Amendment We the People make a clear distinction between rights and power.

WE THE PEOPLE are the government. So, if we the people won't stand up against this abuse of power by the Congress, then we the people get what we deserve.

inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember it or overthrow it."

I don't see how the average voter can be well informed enough to vote intelligently in elections. :shrug:

The Constitution guarantees that the government cannot deprive us of the rights that are our birthright. The statement that these rights are granted by the Bill of Rights is a figure of speech.

Words have power, and the constant misuse of phrasings that imply the Constitution "gives" rights concurrently implies that those rights may be limited or revoked by changes to the Constitution.

That our culture is so imbued with this misconception is one among many reasons Executives have been able to usurp the Constitution for much of this nation's existence.

it's up to "WE THE PEOPLE" to ensure the government protects those rights.

Since very few of us actually pay attention

the U.S.! I get so sick of that type of elitism! Other countries may do an even poorer job of safeguarding human rights, but that doesn't mean they don't have them at birth, as a human being.

It guarantees equal protection of the laws and a republican form of govt. It also guarantees an absence of slavery as well as certain antidiscrimination protections for voters.

You third party extremist.

:hi:

your OVERWHELMING use of capital LETTERS made it slightly MORE DIFFICULT to read your POST.


eat it.


oh yeah, kicked and recommended.

pobody's nerfect. Thanks.

as you can probably tell by my avatar and sig line. :thumbsup:

I will change my avatar to yours. Thanks.

is winning. :sarcasm:

unless those in power believe the same way.

Unfortunately, these days they don't.

and i will not stand or defend anyone in office that abdicates their oath to defend and protect my constitution!

I don't give a damn what party they are..when they do not fullfill their oath to that constitution i will speak out about them and demand they leave office ..because they are breaking oath with those alive today and those who come in the future of this nation!

The constitution has been fought for by people who were willing to give their lives up for it.

The Constitution was fought for by every member of my family, in uniform..my ancestors..and i take that personally as should every American citizen!

anyone , any party , who steals our birth rights should be removed from office!

fly

in France. He was 19 years old, killed about a week after D-Day.

my father in law fought on the Normandy beaches..and my father died young from his wounds he got fighting in the south pacific in WWII...

my brothers fought in Nam..and my grandfather served on the USS ARIZONA in WWI...

they did not fight to have this congress or any other destroy the constitution!

since saturday..i keep having this run through my mind...

when johnny comes marching home again...he will have no rights left!

fly

I am overwhelmed. I will NEVER forget this post.

:cry:

:redbox:The Constitution is NOT going to win us the White House in 2008!

:redbox:The Constitution is NOT going to get us more seats in the house an senate!

:bluebox:Cow-towing to Republicans and acquiescing to their demands on legislation WILL help us win in 2008!

:bluebox:Fearing the Veto will help us win in 2008!

:bluebox: Filibusters are for those who aren't willing to play the game! People will think we're rude!

:sarcasm:

:puke:

PB
(K&R)

Sorry. I can't help it. :hi:

making "Fearing the Veto will help us win in 2008" my sig line.


:yourock:

I don't need no doctor - just my Constitution & Bill o Rights...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZMmV6xXYFw

Better we surrender all our rights immediately!

(I should know - I have had my rights and sometimes did use them to BE RUDE!)

:)

/agree

Ever notice how bad the morons with flags and magnetic stickers on their cars drive?

I have one of those flag stickers, and I'm a pretty decent driver! LOL

:rofl:

DUers *really* think they're mutually exclusive. What idiocy.

I said that some have broken their oath to protect and defend it.

Saying that one can vote to gut our civil liberties, and still stand by the Constitution is the real idiocy. :rofl:

“ The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized. ”

American Idol?

and with Lindsay Lohan being arrested, too. My bad.

:rofl:

Jim, Amy, Diane 1-3 and 5-27 Webb, Klobuchar, Feinstein. Do they skip any other amendements/articles?

Thanks for pinpointing..

I expected more from them, I'm not getting over this.

We're twisted, screwed, and tossed by all of them, especially these three.

If ever the the old standby, 'vote them out', was more calendar irrevelant - this was it.

hellz yeah

Proud to kick this one!

The Military Commisions act shreds the bill of rights, which was the COMPROMISE required for the Constitution to be accepted.

That is a violation of contract that has yet to be addressed.

Seeing as we no longer have an agreed upon Gov't, Bush's power over us is only as big as his gun is, and our fear of him using it.

So, how many other people would like to tell him that he's president of nothing, now, and that congress has no authority over us?

does that make me a bad person?

"I'll stand with the Dems, and I'm a good progressive, and here's why..."

Then, IMO, all I read was a bunch of excuses for why the Democratically controlled Congress did what it did.

I don't think that my disagreeing with the others makes them or me bad Democrats. I'm just tired of being told I'm a bad Democrat because I won't support the crap that they allowed to happen.

...and if we as Democrats stand by and watch our own party members destroy the Constitution--
then we are just as bad as the freepers who cheerlead this pResident as he destroys the
Constitution.

As Progressives and Democrats---we've been complaining about the extremism of this pResident,
the neocon PNACers and the Freepers who support this garbage. Now, it appears that some of
the Dems support the same agenda.

To be supportive of these Dems behaviors is to support Bush.

We're Democrats because we believe in freedom of speech, peace, diplomcacy, privacy and
that all men and women are created equal. However, some in our party have gone astray
and are in line with a dangerous pResident.

To criticize this is just and patriotic.

I believe the term is called "enabler". Those who excuse the Dems who voted for this rotten bill are just as bad as those "representatives" who voted for the bill.

Unlike the President and members of Congress, I've never taken an oath to "protect and defend the Constitution of the United States of America." But unlike the President and (too damned many) members of Congress, I fully intend to do just that.

:hi:

true dat!

not a demand.

If the POTUS commits high crimes against the Constitution, you don't protect the Constitution by protecting the POTUS from impeachment.

This morning I ordered a couple of the pocket Constitutions. I was beginning to doubt my understanding of it so I wanted it in my hand so that I could check my memory.

Yes, the Constitution is what the pResident and vpResident swore to uphold in their oaths of office. It looks to me that they have not done this multiple times in ways that appear to be very destructive.

I'll stand up for the Constitution and speak up to my representatives when I see that they are not upholding their oath of office. I don't expect many of the people who aspire to be president now are showing an intention to uphold the Constitution so I'll be watching carefully before choosing.

Let me think about it for a moment...








































I'm with you all the way! :toast:

You should run for Congress.

I'd take Boeing's money, run, win, then try to destroy them afterwards, I wouldn't last 2 years, may end up having an "accident".

but I disagree with much of your working ideology here, the practical reality is that it does sometimes work this way. The Constitution gives the Speaker of the House, along with those who voted for her, to make such decisions (those you disagree with above). It also give you the right to say you disagree, and tell them so - Good Post! K&R

Political Civility - Everyone, us & them are acting with the best interest of America in mind; we disagree on how to get there? It is wrong for either side to accuse the other of being un-American; when the elections are over, we are all brothers/sisters and on the same side; or at least we should be!

:hi:

:applause:

:blush:

THEIR INTENTION IS TO DESTROY OUR DEMOCRACY.

America's Top 10 Wanted Criminals.

God given every one of us "FREE WILL" to do what we want and no one can't inslave our free will. Well, ellit (dark) had and has been inslaving us for eons years and this will all come to end soon!

Whose God?

Not the God darkness worship.

:P

So, there's one God, and God is MALE?

I found this last night, it's for all the god fearing out there, Just something to make you think. http://youtube.com/watch?v=GRZmzf7WiNg

has warped this ancient truth through time. We are born of Earth and Sun and all the physical elements that have molded us. It is however comforting at times to sprinkle the common knowledge of how creation has formed us, with the strange differences mankind has seen when taken in trade or flight to other lands. There is the sense in everyman that his discoveries are the first, the truist, and the best. So that could cause the deviations,too.
Thank you for finding and posting this probable history lesson. When the truth is out there and it is glimpsed it is recognized.

The war on terrorism is the fight of religious fanatics forcing their personal "view of god" on everyone else.

What you speak of is "not of this world" (Jesus quote) - We are discussing Democracy, Politics and Earthly Governments of a secular nature. While I do not disagree with you, your comments are inappropriate in this context. America was also founded on a distant English Prison, Slavery, Piracy, Tobacco & Rum, Greed & profit, and freedom of religion to believe or not believe - but I think you want the 700 club, not the DU. We may or may not be pagen here, but we are all American Democrats!

It states, we all have free will to make our choice and no one can take that away from US! Not even neo-cons and elites. SORRY... I DO NOT WORSHIP RELIGION of 700 CLUB. I do NOT belong to any church or Religion. I am spiritual and I do believe in God... Creators of Universe. Our Constitution is great... I was also adding Law of One that was given to us by our higher being. I have free will to write above statement!

BTW: RELIGION does not teach Law of One because, they want to control of people.

Regardless of the specific details (which I could care less about), again this is a political forum. And no, I am not going to take the bait and look it up! Play with someone else on this?

What is the difference between empathy & apathy? I don't know & I don't care!

...it looks like you've found it. :)

Do you think I might be able to freelance an opinion column to some newspapers? That's an idea I've been toying with. Your opinion would mean a great deal to me, because I still think the 4th of July post you wrote a couple of years ago was one of the best pieces of writing I've ever seen.

:toast: to you rateyes! :hug:

:toast:

Exactly what is next? Torture?

Let's not forget that we also own the Bankruptcy bill, NAFTA, Welfare Reform, etc.

Pisses me off.

And the Vichy Dems are handing the matches to the Repubs who've been pouring the gasoline...

1. Neither the Democrats nor the Republicans give me freedom of speech. The Constitution does.
2. Neither the Democrats nor the Republicans give me religious liberty. The Constitution does.
3. Neither the Democrats nor the Republicans give me the right of assembly. The Constitution does.
4. Neither the Democrats nor the Republicans give me the right to keep and bear arms for the purpose of keeping a well regulated militia. The Constitution does.
5. Neither the Democrats nor the Republicans give me the right to petition. The Constitution does.
6. Neither the Democrats nor the Republicans give me the right against unlawful searches & seizures. The Constitution does.
7. Neither the Democrats nor the Republicans give me habeas corpus rights. The Constitution does.
8. Neither the Democrats nor the Republicans give me the right to due process. The Constitution does.
9. Neither the Democrats nor the Republicans give me the right to confron my accuser. The Constitution does.
10. Neither the Democrats nor the Republicans give me the right to be considered innocent until proven guilty by a unanimous verdict of a jury of my peers. The Constitution does.
11. Neither the Democrats nor the Republicans protect me from cruel and unusual punishment. The Constitution does.
12. Neither the Democrats nor the Republicans give us the right to vote. The Constitution does.

The constitution doesnt "give" you rights it recognises your inherent freedom.
the bill or rights is the legal protection of your freedom nothing more.

So, if the 2nd amendment to the Constitution was repealed, you would still have the inherent right to keep and bear arms?

I don't think so.

If the 4th amendment was repealed (completely) you would have the inherent right to habeas corpus.

WE THE PEOPLE have given OURSELVES these rights. And, we can let others take them away.

it's really not worth our time trying to live by it. Right?

is that the constitution is no mythical bestower of freedom it is a legal document that is the first of its kind to recognise that Man is free from birth to death. And yes if the world went to ground and anarchy reigned You have the freedom to carry around any weapon you wish. and DO YOU KNOW YOUR NINTH AMENDMENT RIGHTS?

to elect Democrats. All of our rights are not "inalienable." Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness are among the "inalienable rights." The right to have the state of Georgia (I live in Georgia) decide what rights I enjoy or not, when they are not specifically enumerated in the Constitution of the U.S. is a CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT, not an inalienable one.

The right to religious liberty is a Constitutional right, not an inalienable one. Before the Constitution of the US granted me the right to worship or not as I pleased, a number of the colonies/states had state churches...churches who under the power of government had preachers thrown in jail for not being licensed by the state church.

I have the right to religious liberty because the CONSTITUTION gives it to me, as ratified by a supermajority of the states...not because it's inalienable.

the tenth does

9 - The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

10 - The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.


the ninth makes it known that the legal protection afforded the specific rights listed also enshrine those not listed and the fact that they are not listed can not be used to deny a person such legal protection.

now this whole time we are just arguing legal symantics, i agree 99% with your post, i just believe that the constitution is not the giver of freedom but the protector, and that our founding fathers joined together to ensure that such protection be afforded for as long as this country survives

I do not doubt for a moment that your love of this historic document is anyless than my own

I was adding 9 & 10 together in my mind.

tell us a little about yourself.

long time reader of DU, decided to start posting.

I am an iowan whos has been most disapointed in Barak Obama when ive seen him. Edwards wont take my questions. Richardson has refused to answer twice now and i've told him he has one more chance to take a stand, and i wont be seeing hillary until the 18th, biden gave a nice stump speech but didnt take questions, same with obama, I dont like that.

The question i want to ask them all is "considering that president bush started the iraq war, immstituded a policy of torture, and has illegally wiretapped american citizens, if elected to the office of president would you seek to prosecute him in the united states, under the us war crimes act of 1996, send him to the hague, and join the international community, or alow him to escape justice, and clear brush for the rest of his life?

And he WILL pursue trials for war crimes, if we give him the chance.

If you are saying that those of us shouting "Hang together, or we die alone" are less patriotic than you, or love the Constition less than you, or don't get it the way you do, then you are just wrong. We all get it. We all see the problem. It's the solution we are disagreeing over.

Unless you want to overthrow the Constitution and declare yourself or some like-minded liberal as dictator, we have to deal with reality. I hate what Congress did, too. I hate it as much as or more than you do. But I also understand that the Republicans aren't going to do the right thing, and no matter how much we wish it to be so, the voters of Louisiana are not going to throw out a moderate Democrat and elect a progressive Democrat. Neither are the voters in south Mississippi, neither are most of the other places where a Democrat voted the way they did. So throwing out those Dems and replacing them with a liberal is not a realistic option. We can't throw the traitors out, because they will be replaced, in almost every case, by right wingers who don't give a shit and will never give shit about what you want. Worse, forcing them to face a primary challenge might even drive them further to the right, to try to pick up a few moderates since they've lost the left.

I hate all this fighting with people I agree with on almost everything. It's for the birds. It's for shit. We won't get anywhere like this. We will get nothing but more of what we've had the last seven years, and in bigger doses. I'm pissed, you're pissed. The only difference between what we want done and what we know to be right and wrong is how we think we should go about achieving it. I believe firmly that the oly way we will reverse this situation is empowering our people to get thinks done, and you believe we should try a different approach.

What I hate, though, is being told (and don't argue, this is the implicit point in your argument) that I'm not as good as you, that I don't get it like you do, that I don't love the Constitution and respect the rights granted in the Constitution as much as you, just because I think we have to win this battle with the weapons we have, rather than throwing them away and hoping against all reason that we find new weapons. If that's not what you meant to imply, then I'm glad to hear it, but it's sure as hell how your post came across.

Now, if you're done calling out your fellow patriots, if your done implying that you know and care more than those of us with different strategies, if your ready to make a difference rather than just making noise, aim those extremely insightful and eloquent rhetorical cannons of yours at the real enemy--the one thing we all agree on. Explain every point you made about the Constitution, and rights, and the limits on the government, but make the bad guys out to be the Republicans. Then you and I and every goddamned one of us can link arms and march together, and maybe along the way we'll give the Congresscritters we elected enough support and even courage to join us. It's not that I'm right and you're wrong, it's just that that's the one target we can fight together, rather than fighting each other. Like it or not (and none of us do), for the next almost two years the only chance we have of making progress lies with the Democrats. The Republicans won't help us. The Democrats just might, if they get in the position to do so. I'm not overly hopeful, frankly, but it's the only chance we have.

And I don't disagree with you if you are in one of the districts or states of one of the weaklings. Oppose them in the primary, do what you can to get more allies in office. And frankly, I don't disagree that we should all shout and scream when the bastards stab us in the back they way they just did. But it has to have a limit. Once we give them the message, we need to turn back to the real evil. When every other post on the front page of DU attacks the Democrats, we are helping Bush every bit as much as... No, make that more than... the Republican web sites. Nothing good can come of it. It isn't any one poster's fault. There is no fault. But even so, we sure aren't going to accomplish anything by it.

That's what the other side is saying. Not that you have choose the Democratic Party over the Constitution. Just that the only chance we have of saving the Constitution lies with the Democrats. The only progress this nation has made in the last 70 years has been with the Democrats. And we only win when we work together on what we know is right, rather than fighting about what we disagree over.

That's my piece. Your post was excellent. Now, can we get to work?

You are the SECOND person who has disagreed with me, along with one up the line on this thread, who has said that you understand the anger that a lot of us feel. I have read posts of those who disagree with me, basically saying to me what you just said my post sounded like to you.

Because I dare to criticize strongly our Democratic leaders for what, in my opinion (and, it is my OPINION), was an abrogation of their Constitutional duties, I have been called a bad Democrat.

If you go back and read my post very carefully, you see that my criticism was aimed at ALL the Republicans (except two) and the HANDFUL of Democrats who, again in my opinion, abrogated their oath of office.

As for my Representative in Congress: His name is Jim Marshall. He is what I call a "Democrat in name only." EVERY vote he has made on the war, on civil liberties...and, EVERY opinion piece he has written on his website and in the local paper on whether or not we should be investigating the Executive Branch, has been right down the Republican line.

I have written him countless letters. I have talked with him. I have called Nancy Pelosi. I've called John Conyers. I've called Harry Reid. I've done everything I know to do.

My question of you is this...Marshall will have no opposition in the primaries. He is one of the most vulnerable Democrats in Congress. He will be facing a retired Air Force General from Warner-Robins AFB in the General Election. I don't want that General to win. But, if anyone opposes Marshall in the primary, that person will split the Democratic vote in the fall and ensure that the Republicans get that seat. But, you see, as far as how the important votes go down, it won't matter...because Marshall votes with the Republicans anyway, out of fear or whatever reason.

So, what am I to do? Because electing Marshall won't change a damned thing. How am I supposed to work to make sure that this crap doesn't keep happening? How am I supposed to hold hands with Jim Marshall to get him elected, when I KNOW that once he gets there, he will keep voting with the Republicans?

You are right. The Democrats, it seems now, are the only hope. But, so far, they have kept making, in my opinion, VERY BAD DECISIONS.

Will Pitt, whom I admire (I really do) talked eloquently about "Standing with the Dems, and being a good progressive." But, the tone of his post, in my opinion, was the same tone you got from mine. If you don't agree with HOW he goes about making it happen, then you AREN'T a good progressive...."You just don't get it" is the attitude.

Well, I do get it. You want me to go to work beside you. Fine. But, does that mean that I have to quit criticizing Democrats, who have the power to stop this, when they don't stop this? Do I have to come to YOUR position on HOW we get Dems elected in order to work with you?

How about some movement from those on your side of this issue toward those on our side?

Cooperation is a two way street.

Again, thanks for the compliment on the post.

Peace.

What to do about Jim Marshall: whatever you can, but it sounds like the one thing you can't do is replace him with a liberal. So why worry about that? Options include firing up his base to demand that he vote the way you want, writing him lots of letters, organizing others in your district to write letters, etc. If you get the majority of his voters to tell him they don't like what he's doing, he'll either do it differently, or he you can take that majority and elect someone who will. Now, if you can't get the majority in his district to agree with you, then you lose. He will listen to the majority, not the loudest individual. Have you met him? Have you organized a club or joined your local Dem club to try to influence him? These folk are real people, they aren't that heard to get in touch with. Leaders are so scarce that if you become one, people will flock to you. Work on him, and you'll have a better chance of changing him than if you attack him.

How are you supposed to hold hands with him? Maybe you aren't. Maybe your best tactic is to be an adversary. When I was president of my club here in Austin, we had one member who used to follow her reps (state and federal) around everywhere. She would visit their fundraisers, she would go to open committees they chaired (we live in the state capital, which helps). Not only did she know their names, THEY KNEW HERS. And not because she attacked them, but because she followed them. She even helped play a role in defeating the Republican state rep and replacing him with a Dem.

BTW, my Congresscritter is Lamar Smith, my senators are Kay Bailey Hutchison and John Cornyn. I'll take your congresscritter any day of the week.

You ask if working beside me means you have to quit criticizing the Democrats who have the power to stop "this" but don't stop it. The short answer is the same as I gave in my previous post: no. Scream at them. I've done it myself a few times. But don't keep screaming, day after day, post after post, so that every post on the front page of DU is an attack on the Democratic Party. Obviously, you by yourself don't do that, but that's the cummulative effect of it. Now the long answer. I think you think they have more power than they do--the only thing they can really do is vote for bills they know won't pass. You don't really believe Bush would stop his wiretap program if they didn't approve this bill, do you? And the Republicans have already proven they won't impeach him for it. So he will get away with it. They could have refused the bill, and been obstructionists (and I wish they had), but that wouldn't get us anything we want, either. They choose to work the way Congress has always worked--you give the other party some of what they want (hopefully not giving up anything you actually have), so that they will give you some of what you want. Right now the Republicans don't like Bush much better than we do. So we court them, a little. Who knows what we will get in return? Maybe nothing, but we haven't given up anything anyway. We have given Bush a six month temporary authorization to keep doing what he was going to keep doing anyway. I guarantee you that six month limit was a compromise the Republicans didn't want to give. Maybe when they get back, the Republicans will yield on something we need. That's the way politics has always worked. That's what the Democrats are trying to accomplish, or part of it. It's not pretty to watch, I don't like it, in fact I hate it, but their options are limited. People turned on Gingrich in the 90s when he took an unyielding hard line, they will turn on the Dems the same way.

To sum up that rambling paragraph: Criticize them, make your opinions and your anger known. But then get back to work with the tools we have.

You ask my side for compromise, for "movement." You're implying I'm getting what I want, and that you are an opponent of mine who is expected to yield to me. I just don't see it that way. I'm as angry as you, so I'm compromising by writing everything I've written. I'm not compromising with your "side" because I see us on the same side. I'm compromising with those in power, giving them the leeway to do their job. They have made progress. Bush's numbers are in the toilet, as are the entire Republican Party's, in large part because the Democrats in Congress have used their majority (including the DINOs) to investigate and expose Bush's crimes, and his failings. 2008 could be a pivotal year in American politics. It could be a sea change from conservatism to liberalism (or as I like to call it, true Americanism). IF that happens--if we can hold it together long enough to make that happen--we could have a Democratic president, a Democratic Congress, and the general public all on our side. THEN we would have real power. THEN we can start the slow process of reclaiming the courts. Then we can pass legislation and not worry about vetos. Then we could get things done. We've made big strides since we've taken Congress, but without the presidency, especially with this president, we still don't have the power to make major changes. Congress has done a lot. They have failed a lot, too, and even in areas where they have had power--passing the troops funding, passing the FISA thingie, etc. But the progress they have made has put us in a better position for 08.

That's why I'm willing to let them work, even when they aren't doing what I want. They have things moving in a better direction than they were a year ago. Criticize them when they screw up, by all means. They need to hear that. But let's keep marching in the same direction. Let's not derail our own train just as it's beginning to start to roll. Let's not make the Republicans' jobs easier by having a constant barrage of attacks on the Dems. Democratic Underground is a true force in national politics. We have played a major role in the whole Netroots movement, more so than people here seem to realize. We can be a true force for change. I'm just worried--and I think this was behind Will's departure--that we are on the verge of throwing away all our power through internal bickering. Will, contrary to what some thought, didn't leave because he was insulted or because his post got criticized. He left because he felt like DU was no longer helping the cause, that the site had become a haven for discord instead of for progress.

I want to prove him wrong. I know you want to prove him wrong. Let's prove him wrong. I love the dude--he was the first one on DU to make me feel truly welcome here, and I didn't even know he was famous then. He may not have been, yet, actually. But I want him to be wrong this time.

That's my post. I write too long, I know. Sorry. I hope you see what I'm trying to say. We aren't enemies. We don't have different goals. We may not always work at our goals the same way, but that shouldn't make us fight more than a few minutes. Forward into the breach. When we've taken the castle, we can argue over how to spend the spoils. I'll buy you a beer. :)

No, we aren't enemies.

Just sorry I can do it only once.

:hi:

:bounce::patriot::bounce:

:kick:

:hi:

You???

:bounce::hi::bounce:

Nah, I'm doing better every day.

Oh forgive me, YOU, george regard the US Constitution as "just a God damned piece of paper", right? You POS! Remind me again why we can't IMPEACH this POS? :grr:

or that's what I'm told. My bet is that we do have the votes. We just aren't allowed to take a vote.

You know the score! :thumbsup:

This is currently the most rec'ed post!

:toast:

:applause:

Right on there should be no limit to what is and is not a democrat. Once we start type casting then everything gets to uniformed. You should be who you are and vote with you heart.

Constitution and the protection of same, above and beyond ANY party, ANY president, ANY leader. Period!

We need more Constitution loving people around here!

Governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. That whenever any form of government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government.

-Thomas Jefferson
-The Declaration of Independence

Best post on this subject!

Read Senator Feingold's latest article:"Lessons Not Learned" http://www.huffingtonpost.com/sen-russ-feingold/lessons-not-learned_b_59302.html

Read Rep. Ron Paul's latest article: "The Fear Factor"
http://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul402.html

We need more members of Congress speaking on behalf of the Constitution!

Why don't most Republicans and the few Democrats who allowed this crap to happen get it?

To protect the constitution is in my opinion the core of being an elected representative/senator/president. Kicking and Recommending.

:patriot:

:patriot:

How are you? :hi:

And you?
I am impressed that you are being so politically intellectual.

:hi:

:applause:

:hi:

Thank you for stating this so eloquently!

Judicial branch. For every over reaching legislator and law enforcer that has looked to take away my constitutionally defined rights a good Judge has stood in their way.

(Also a reason why I don't think judges should be allowed to belong to political parties. Even the new Iraqi constitution bars this and we should do the same)

to find. :hi:

Alberto Gonzales spy on Americans w/o any oversite.

the Democrats who do:

except there were two Republicans who voted against the FISA bill, too. Walter Jones and Ron Paul.

I'll support all who do. I won't support those who don't.

At times, some of those out there, myself included, forget these simple facts. Thanks for pulling the focus back.

Rights don't enforce themselves. Americans seem to think we have liberties because the country somehow magically bestows them. Obviously that is not true. We must constantly guard our rights.

we can't give any of them up for one minute.

that wars and foreign entanglements made it more difficult.

Which is why Chimpy wants to be a "war president." The PNAC, neocons and other fascist wannabes all know they need wars as the best way to make it easier for them to get us to fail to safeguard our rights from them.

The idea the government would "protect us" after 911 was hand made for that purpose. The founders talked in terms of limiting the government's power and holding it in check, which was quite forgotten in the "patriotic" days after 911.

I'm not a politician. That's for sure. With my views, I'd probably never be elected.
I'd vote for you!

*****

I remember so well the Senate Watergate hearings conducted by an elderly North Carolina Democrat by the name of Sam Ervin. Sounding a bit like Senator Cleghorn from the Fred Allen Show (also cartoon character Foghorn Leghorn), the Senator described himself as a "simple country lawyer."

Just as he had you lulled into thinking that, this "simple country lawyer" with the Harvard education would launch into a pinpoint cross examination. The hearings were broadcast by the three television networks, and many people were rivited by them.

"What did the President know and when did he know it?" was the question Vice-Chairman Howard Baker (Republican of Tennessee) wanted to know. Senator Baker opted to put his country ahead of politics.

In this present time, the nation is starved for political heroes. Political considerations appear to trump the Constitution and the rights of citizens. There is a tendency to believe it was always like this. It wasn't.

Something I have been attempting to do is show the profiles in courage that earlier generations embodied. Perhaps if we can remember people like Sam Ervin and Barbara Jordan we can get back on track. We need their spirit more than ever.

The link I am providing goes to a page about Sam Ervin. Read some of the quotes and note how relevant they are to our current situation. Listen to the Senator and get a feel for his total respect for the rule of law.

One final thing: The amount of illegal activity that occurred during the Nixon Administration greatly affected the Senator. Before he left office, he was instrumental in setting the groundwork for the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA) to protect the privacy of the American citizens. This is the very Act that Congress seems so willing to weaken.

http://www.massachusettsobserver.com/samervin.htm

Brilliant post.

I have front paged this on my blog, Justice For None. This is about the best defense of the Constitution I've yet read - thank you!!

I liked your post the other day about the guy in the parking lot. :hi:

May sense soon return to those lost souls in Washington.

Rules For Living In Post-Democratic America

The following is a list of rules released by the White House to help American citizens cope with the day-to-day realities of life in post-democratic America.

1. Make sure your papers are in order and that your membership dues in the Republican Party are current.

2. Never speak the President's name in vain.

3. Report all disloyal family members and friends to your local Republican Party precinct commander.

4. Always have a portrait of the President hanging next to the American flag in a prominent location in your home.

5. Remember that the government is wise and all knowing and that you should trust it the way a child trusts his parents.

6. Be a good consumer for consumerism is next to godliness.

7. Never stay out after curfew unless you have special dispensation from your local Republican Party precinct commander.

8. Do not look government officials directly in the eye and bow in their presence to show your obedience and respect.

9. Begin every morning by reciting your allegiance to the President.

10. Never question any official government edict or authority.

By following these simple rules you will be on your way to a happy and productive life as a citizen of the United States of America version 2.0.

Do you mind if I print it out and nail it to every utility pole in North Carolina?

:kick:

White House: Parts Of Constitution Written In Invisible Ink

Washington, D.C. - The White House announced today that many of the controversial policies and decisions made by the Bush administration are based on sections of the United States Constitution that are written in invisible ink. This surprising statement was meant to allay fears that the President had overstepped his authority by his use of signing statements, the sanctioning of torture on prisoners and the wholesale spying on innocent Americans without probable cause.

Attorney General Alberto Gonzalez said "the authority for the President of the United States to use any power he deems necessary in his role as Commander in Chief is explicitly cited in the Constitution. The relevant paragraphs granting this authority have been overlooked for over two-hundred years because they were written in invisible ink by Thomas Jefferson who did not want them to be seen by enemies of the Republic. However, thanks to special glasses manufactured by Diebold Incorporated, members of the Justice Department who have the necessary security clearance, can now view the Constitution in its entirety which is how we reached our decision that President Bush has unlimited and unfettered power."

Gonzalez continued "However, because Diebold holds proprietary rights to these special viewing glasses their use is restricted to only President Bush, Vice President Cheney, myself and a few aids. Therefore, these sections of the Constitution will remain secret and classified."

My allegiance is to the Constitution, the Bill of Rights, and the Law of Fundamental Rights first and foremost, AND to the American People.

Allegiance to the Democratic Party comes way behind that.

I say throw it out and start over. Business and capitalist have too much freedom and protection in this country. Our current state of affairs proves how flawed this political and economic system is. We need to scrap this system, do a total redistribution of wealth, and start over. The US Constitution offers to many protections for right wing religions nuts and conservative zealots.

but I'll kick this.

A big hell yes, for rateyes!

:kick: