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marmar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-06-07 06:29 PM
Original message
Poll question: Democracy in the USA. Dead?
After this weekend, it seems to me that it is. I know the Dems plan to revisit FISA in 6 months, but are they going to be able to get enough "Blue Dogs" and nervous senators (Jim Webb was a real disappointment) to switch 6 months from now, or will it be the same sad story all over again.
I hate to read the eulogy, but.....

What's your diagnosis on the health of U.S. democracy?
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-06-07 06:35 PM
Response to Original message
1. I keep thinking
someday the people will rise up and throw the bums out.
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kenny blankenship Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-06-07 06:40 PM
Response to Original message
2. More like a vermiform appendix - just not needed anymore
Edited on Mon Aug-06-07 07:27 PM by kenny blankenship
It's main function has been lost or downgraded to mere placeholding. It's usefulness is being able to point to it and say "there's still democracy". The continuation of the organism does not rely on it. From time to time it becomes inflamed and may eventually require removal.
But like a rusting bridge, it's cheaper to just leave it in place.
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-06-07 06:42 PM
Response to Original message
3. The SOLE process that's democratic is an election. They've been corrupted.
Not only are the candidates no longer amenable to the will of the electorate, the electorate is bing lied to and deprived of the free press upon which a representative democracy must rely. The representative process has also been deeply corrupted since the elected representatives are no longer adhering to the majority of public demand.

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cyclezealot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-06-07 06:46 PM
Response to Original message
4. The Supreme court has ruled there is no right to vote
It's up to the states. So to think, you'd expect your vote to be counted. ? Its a republic . Power to the people is just not gonna happen in our lifetime .
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TechBear_Seattle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-06-07 06:58 PM
Response to Original message
5. The United States has never been a democracy
To start with, we are a republic of states. Second, we are a plutocracy.

According to the design of the Constitution, the vast bulk of power rests with the landed aristocracy, not the common folk. Look at the Constitution and see that the Senate alone has nearly all of the power; remember that until the ratification of the 17th Amendment in 1913, senators were appointed by state Legislatures, ie senators were rich, very well connected men who were part of the power elite.

Today, things remain the same. To run for Congress requires money and connections far beyond what any working Joe can manage: if you do not have full backing of a major political party, there is less than a snowball's chance in Hell you will get elected even if you win the primary (witness Ned Lamont and the way the Democratic Party supported the traitor Lieberman.)
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angrycarpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-06-07 07:01 PM
Response to Original message
6. never been a true democracy
As long as there have been Wealthy people in control of the economic and political power structure democracy has been an illusion. I really hate the rich people of the world for the way that they feel that they are entitled to all of the money and power and any populist movement to level the field is met with utter contempt and put down by the foulest possible means. Conservatives would call me a commie for saying what I just said. I'm not a communist just pissed.
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cui bono Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-06-07 07:07 PM
Response to Original message
7. RIP - almost went with Critical but I don't see how it's going to be rescued.
The people won't rise up in unison as we are too divided, just as "they" wanted us to be. Plus we are not an intellectual nation and most people aren't even aware of what has happened and to what extent, and not aware of how things really work. Hell, I've only scratched the surface myself.

How can all of what is wrong with America get set right? I don't see it happening. I'm moving to Europe as soon as it is possible for me to do so.

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radfringe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-07-07 05:02 AM
Response to Reply #7
12. included in a recent bush signing statement
was the DNR order (do not resuscitate)
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C_U_L8R Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-06-07 07:52 PM
Response to Original message
8. We'll see after the election
or lack of election
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NaturalHigh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-07-07 03:54 AM
Response to Original message
9. While corporate money runs the political process...
its chances are slim.
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Disturbed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-07-07 04:17 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. America was claimed as being a Republic with Representation.
It has been a Plutocracy from the beginning and is now a Corporate State, a Fascist Police State.
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Selatius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-07-07 04:26 AM
Response to Original message
11. The only country in the industrialized world that could claim to be a democracy is Switzerland.
There, the people govern in partnership with the government. The people, through the use of petitions, can bypass congress and pass laws directly through initiatives, call a referendum on an act of congress to affirm or reject the action in question, or even recall sitting legislators.

This is not something the US could handle in its current state, and I doubt it ever will have the fortitude to handle such a thing.
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spindoctor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-07-07 06:35 AM
Response to Original message
13. I voted life support after some consideration
"No man is good enough to govern another man without that other's consent.” - Abraham Lincoln

True democracy does not exist, nowhere. It is not very practical to hold a referendum for every decision that needs to be made.
In that sense the US never was a democracy to begin with.

We chose to have elected officials represent us instead and see what that got us.

Democracy is on life support because we hacked the shit out of it. We (or at least they) know the game, we know when to hold'm, we know when to fold'm. Sometimes your cards ain't worth a dime, if you don't lay'em down... I'm wandering off here.

It has become a calculated process of manipulation, negotiation, presentation and of course corruption in which there is no room left for ordinary people to voice their opinion.

If you are pro-war, you have to be against gay marriage too and the only connection between the two is a political party.

So elections are about some marginal swing votes while half the people vote whatever party their particular Church endorses. The other half simply stopped caring and don't bother to vote at all (you can argue that not voting is a very democratic thing to do). So whoever is going to be president will do so with the consent of around 20% of the population. In that light, Bush's approval ratings aren't even that bad.

As for the Senate...the one thing Senators fear most is not being Senator. Keep the pressure up and everything will be fine in six months. Forget about it and you will be stuck with the consequences.

And remember, even a fucked up democracy is better than none. Just imagine having to live under GWB for the rest of his natural life after which his brother will take over.
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