More hetero thoughts inspired from the Snickers commercial

After hearing discussions about the Snickers commercial, I've decided to add some thoughts.

I'm hetrosexual myself but many of my friends and coworkers are gay. I have no issues with it at all.
Even my best friend in high school figured out he was gay but it never changed anything between us. I'm totally accepting of the whole thing --- but --- I realize that seeing two men kiss makes me feel uncomfortable. Just because I fully support people's personal choices doesn't mean that I have to lie to myself about how I feel. Romantic relations between men isn't a pleasant concept to me.

Men having sex, doesn't affect me the same way. It doesn't excite me but doesn't make me uncomfortable either. I'm pretty neutral towards it, but kissing and romantic relationships between men hits me in a different place. I saw Brokeback Mountain but it didn't appeal to me, as you might imagine.

I'm not quite sure what this is all about but it's something I've come to accept. This doesn't mean that I hold prejudices against men that do this or expect anyone to censor themselves around me any more than any romantic couple should. If I feel uncomfortable it's up to me to look away not up to others to cater to my desires. (To overly flaunt romantic entanglements in public is pretty rude for any kind of couple, in my opinion.)

So I just wanted to put this out here.
Someone who's totally liberal in his views still can harbor feelings that don't fully support his beliefs.

I actually thought it made THEM look like asses. I actually thought the whole thing made fun of homophobes. At least, that is the way I took it...

Apparently there's other footage, that was not shown, though, that involves violence and mocking.

at least it didn't appear that way. It was the tape of players reacting with homophobic comments, as well as an alternative ending that was outrageously homophobic. I myself didn't get what all the hoopla was about over the SuperBowl ad, because I'd seen it. But to see those players acting that way pissed me off! :grr:

making disgusted faces, and of the alternative violent endings to the tv ad.

The ad itself was just goofy.

It turned a 'let's make fun of homophobic idiots' campaign into something else entirely.

Pity, they could have done it well, and made a good point, but instead, they went for the cheap lousy shot.

I bet you wouldn't even notice it anymore, much less let it bother you. Most of our reaction to the sexual and romantic mores of others is cultural conditioning. Not all of it, maybe, but most of it.

When I first moved to Key West I was shocked. I came from a rural area of the south. After being in Key West awhile I got over it.

The kissing, hand holding, and arm-in-arm business are par for the course. And the majority of those guys aren't gay.

It's totally cultural...Americans are pretty nervous about any sort of contact that doesn't involve a sports venue or a towel snapping exercise!

I know plenty of GAY guys who were uncomfortable the first time they saw two men kiss. Because they weren't conditioned to the image as a normal occurrence.

More than likely, you are neutral about sex between two guys because the sex can be just pure sport: it has no cultural ramifications for you. Kissing and romantic activity, however, has the ability to rock your world, because it challenges those assumptions and prejudices you (and most of us) grew up with and turns them on their head: you are forced to confront the reality that gay people are fully fledged, 360 degree individuals JUST LIKE YOU. And that their love and bond is just as strong and valid as the love and bond between a man and a woman.

That's a tough thing for a straight person to come to grips with. Even an accepting, liberal hetero. Cultural conditioning is pretty powerful.

Let's remember, the first interacial kiss was between Kirk & Uhura... and they didnt even touch lips but simply leaned into each other away from the camera to give the appearance. Still Southern states didnt air the episode. Kind of ridiculous now, right?
Times change... but it seems people don't.

So let's have fun with 'stereotypes' with another commercial 'idea'.

Black man at urinal.

Smiling White man steps up, unzips, starts his business, looks over, and smile is replaced with deject look.
Black man leaves.

Smiling Japanese man steps up, unzips, starts his business, looks over, and smile is replaced with dejected look. White man beams.

Japanese man leaves.

In parking lot, Black man is seen smiling in his Volkswagon beetle... smiling white man nods at black man as he gets into his Toyota pickup. Dejected japanese man mutters past both, gets into his Hummer and is BEAMING THE BIGGEST SMILE EVER as he drives by the black and white man.

Caption reads: "Be a Man, Drive a Hummer"


So.......................... fun with stereotypes on TWO levels... funny or offensive?

But some people would find it offensive. No matter how much arguing you do, some people will always find these things offensive and some will not.

... laugh without resorting to offensiveness....

STUPID CAVEMEN should just leave GIECO alone!!!! LOL!

When did YOU make a "personal choice" to be heterosexual?

I meant personal choices in general but in this case saying "personal preferences" might have been better.

If I really had a choice I'd choose bisexual.

Even trisexual if I could figure out what that would be.

Anyone for quads?

I'm a woman and my sexual preference or choice isn't towards women.

My sexual orientation is towards other women. No choice involved. I was born a lesbian, much like you were born heterosexual.

but we do have preferences.

It's physically possible for any of us to have a sexual relationship with anyone else.
But we do have preferences. And yes, I think the preference is built into us.

But there are some that deny their preference and try to live a lifestyle that wrong for them.

In a way it's still a choice.
You choose to live the way that's best for you as opposed to choosing to deny who you are and live the way others might think you should live.

But I know what you mean. Often "choice" implies that homosexuality is an unnatural desire. I totally agree that this is hogwash. People have different desires, needs, personalities, and most of it is in the genes. It can be flavored by the environment but the basics are built in. Including sexual orientation.

You are you and you should be you even if you aren't the you that Reverend Yoohoo thinks you should be. You.

Me too.
(too much of you. had to add a little of me.)

Is it physically possible for people to have sex with animals, yes. But, ....

Seriously, take preference and choice out of it completely. Those are just RW talking points. Don't fall prey to using them.

When my heterosexual husband saw it, he was simply saddened. He did comment about his lack of appeal for certain scenes in the movie. However, what really bothered him was that two people loved each other, but because of societal constraints, they could not carry out that love fully, as most of us heterosexuals can. In fact, they feared for their lives if anyone found out. I'm not attacking the OP, but just showing how we can all be in different places on the continuum. The point of this past week's discussion, has been whether or not we're offended in certain situations, we need to put ourselves in the other person's shoes, and understand how they may be offended. I just wish persons on one end of the continuum could at least try to understand persons on the other end.

and honest in your feelings is a big first step. You should try watching Brokeback Mountain again and see if you can get past the kissing and romance. It bothered me at the beginning but I someway managed to relax and in the end appreciate what was a wonderful story.

My brother is gay and he said the commercial was just stupid and not really funny. He wasn't offended, he just thought it was weird. He always tells me that I probably think about him being gay more than he does, because I always asking him things like, 'did you see that commercial?' and stuff like that. It is just a non-issue with him evidently. About the only thing that gets him upset is when people think they are fighting for his 'rights' but just embarrass themselves and other gay people in the process. I have not talked to him since this whole snickers thing became so controversial...so I'll probably just bug him again and ask, 'did you hear all that controversy about that commercial' and I'll probably just that look of, 'Jesus, here we go again...'

It's the whole campaign, which was sickening.

But knowing him he probably will just laugh it off. He just doesn't get mad at hardly anything. He's gay, but it's like he isn't because unless anyone else brings it up it is just a non-issue with him. He's really busy most of the time though with work (a big ole meany insurance company no less) and has really climbed up the corporate ladder. His partner owns his own restaurant and he does pretty good also.

I'm so proud of him because I really worried about his future when we were younger. It never would have occured to me 20 years ago when us kids were getting out of high school that he would be the one in the family that would skyrocket to the top. I was worried he wouldn't even be able to get a job because he was gay. I asked him a long time ago if he worried that being gay would affect what he wanted to do with his life. I don't remember his exact words, but he basically said it never occurerd to him. Evidently he was right because if I find out he is going on yet another cruise, vacation to Mexico, trip to Europe, etc., I'm going to kill him.

Anyway, I'll ask him again about the snickers but I'm betting that he'll not get too upset.

The players making disgusted faces and the violence. They made the wrong decision to go with that campaign, and the right decision to pull it the next day.

When I saw the commercial, without any context, I thought, as I said upthread, that the commercial was making FUN of homophobia. Ha, ha...look at those INSECURE jerks. They want the candy, but they're scared of touching lips, and must "prove" their pathetic manliness by mutilating themselves. What a bunch of dorks!

Then, I heard about the other stuff. Suddenly a goofy commercial that made fun of intolerant assholes became a different thing altogether.

The commercial alone I would have found very stupid and slightly offensive. The whole campaign was VERY offensive.

ad campaign. I'm afraid they don't want to see it.

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:yourock:

May god bless you and all your decendents.

damaging.

You will never, ever easily get used to men (or women for that matter) showing affection toward one another, if the act is showcased as a humiliation.

The punchline of this advertisement literally gets gay people punched, and stabbed, and knocked unconscious with baseball bats from coast to coast.

Talk about uncomfortable.

P.S. I just noticed you're in L.A.

I suggest spending a night walking around Santa Monica Blvd. in WEHO and take in some of the atmosphere. I think you would be surprised about how comfortable you would feel.

NT!

NT!

should be personal preference, I think.
Sorry bout that.

I think "orientation" is the word you seek :)

I get it. "orientation" is the currently most acceptable term.

Language can be really hard to keep up on sometimes.

Where's Esperanto when you really need it?

:rofl: THAT is funny.

It is not like some menu where you look at it and say, "gosh, I'll choose the gay option". It's not like I stood in front of a mirror one morning while shaving and said to myself, "gee whiz, Terry, how can I jazz up my boring, humdrum life? I know! I'll just start being attracted to other men!"

Don't fall into this trap. This "lifestyle choice, preference" crap is what the right wing fundamentalists push to attempt to deny us our rights and to try to relegate us to second class citizenship. It's why they push that "ex-gay" shit. Please don't fall into that trap.

So there!

Poo.

Being gay isn't about having sex.

Gay ... fun.

I'm playing with the words you see.
The intended effect is an increase in endorphins within your cerebrum.

If it doesn't work for you, well, join the crowd.

:spray:

I can imagine it, as you don't realize what issues you DO have about gay men. You claim "I have no issues with it at all". Yet the movie "hit you in a different place," even though the actual sex was in silhouette and aside from a few kisses was such a small part of the plot line.

I wonder why a gay man can see a male/female couple kiss on-screen and not recoil? I can watch a heterosexual romance and recognize all the tenderness, all the heartache, and not once say "uuughhh!"

So you DO have issues, whether you know it or not.

And you don't get it, as you refer to being gay as a "personal choice". You have a lot of growth to go through with this issue.

It just isn't - I don't get it. Now, arguably, as someone who's to some degree bi, I'm unqualified to comment, but I just don't grasp why someone would find a kiss or even a lovemaking scene so off-putting.

I mean, like you said: I wonder why a gay man can see a male/female couple kiss on-screen and not recoil? Exactly, heterosexual romance is all over the place, on all sorts of levels, and yet gay men and lesbians have managed to watch TV and go to the movies for decades without being traumatized.

I just don't fundamentally understand the negative emotional reaction some people have to a same-sex kiss. Where does that come from? It has to be conditioning, I'll never believe it's "inherent" or "natural" in anybody.

:toast:

I tend to react badly to violence in movies - especially if it's a realistic movie, like in a well-done war story (in cheesy gore films, I just know it's fake and I don't have the same horror/grief reaction). As I get older, I'm less tolerant of indulgence in tragedy and angst and nihilism (seen too much of the real thing, I think). I know these are also personal issues, of no relevance whatsoever to real filmmakers or real soldiers.

But love? Mutually pleasurable sex? Uh, no, that never bothers me, never has. Certainly hope it never will.

:toast:

Amazingly, neither were repulsive to me. It's just not what I like to do myself.

If the OP is repulsed by simple kissing, he clearly has issues.

It's just sex, for heaven's sake. Everybody does it, and people do it in various ways, and as long as everyone's enjoying themselves, I just don't get the...I mean, I can see thinking it's boring if it's not your thing, 'cause it kind of is, but the grossout and even a violent reaction is...whoa, I do NOT get that.

and I don't think that deserves flaming. It's a very real reaction, one that is extremely common in the heterosexual community (particularly in male heteros) and therefore needs to be dealt with.

If no one was willing to admit it, how would progress ever be made?

The fact I said "I don't have any issues." was a poor choice of -- well -- thinking I guess.

But I'm just glad I'm not issuing any more. (I had stomach flu over the weekend and was issuing all kinds of unpleasantness. But you don't want to hear about that I'm sure.)

(so I told you.)

I respect it. I only took objection to your acting like your issues are something "natural" and inevitable because, well, they aren't. They're a product of your own upbringing and habits of thinking. And you DO have the power to change them. Sexual orientation isn't a "preference" or a "choice" or a "lifestyle." But homophobia IS.

Just take a working keyboard and some fancy dancing fingers.

But I do admit to having hobophobia.
I don't think that's a choice.
It certainly isn't an sexual orientation.
Or at least I hope not.

Them hobos. They scare me.

They know how to make good soup out of almost nothing, and they know the good train routes.

:D

It's amazing how many people still think we choose to be gay, but they didn't choose to be either straight or homophobic.
:eyes:

My point is that I know I do.

what some others said above is probably right. If society had more open expression of gay romance as a common occurance, I probably wouldn't have written this at all. A lot of it could be what we are exposed to and the messages that society sends us.


And I've commented above on the 'personal choice' term.

I just know that sometimes the head and heart don't see eye to eye.

And see, I can use modern up to date phrases too like "my bad"

Pretty clever for someone who's 736 years old, like me.

It's the bee's knees!

are so pervasive in our society that very few manage to escape them completely. Almost all of us are effected - even if we don't want to be. Even if our beliefs are the exact opposite, there are often still recesses of our minds that harbor these thoughts.

I think our duty is to do everything we can to decrease the indoctrination of the next generation. And so on and so forth. We cannot always control our thoughts, but we can control our actions, and our actions will influence our children's thoughts.

The best we can do is try to understand our personal prejudices and deficiencies and attempt to compensate for them.

As they sang in Avenue Q, "Everyone a little bit racist"

The mind and the heart sometimes don't see eye to eye.

That's so obvious I'm kind of embarrassed to say it. But it's true. Much more important is what we do about them.

I can't say I'm 100 percent comfortable with seeing two guys kiss, but it doesn't squick me out. I didn't cringe or anything during "Brokeback Mountain" and I freakin' love going to the Castro in San Francisco. (Once, the two women I was with there told me two guys were checking me out. I was like, "Yeah? Well... cool.") :D

Now, if I did have a problem with that, I think I'd try to figure out the reasons for it — whether it was some memory of my youth or something. If I went through that process honestly and it still squicked me, I'd just have to accept that, I guess. I don't know how one can change such a thing as we're all limited to some degree by our sexuality. But if you're not honest with yourself about it, you hurt yourself and others by not realizing your potential as a good Earthling progressive.

shutting it down, in yourself and in future generations. As others have said, these qualities are NOT innate, but are products of our upbringing - no young child has an innate adverse reaction to a child of another race, gender, ethnicity, or to images of homosexuality - because it makes no logical sense whatsoever.

:sarcasm:

Curly, cartiligy, wrinkled, skin things on the sides of their heads.

They really mess up someone with good looks.