To those of you who will not vote for Hillary under any circumstances even in the general election..

What the fuck is wrong with you?

Do you realize that if a few thousand more greens voted for Gore in 2000 in Florida that 9/11 may never have happened?

That there wouldn't have been an Iraq war with thousands of our troops dead and hundreds of thousands of Iraquis dead?

That we wouldn't be the laughingstock of the world and maybe we would be a leader in fixing our most pressing global planetary crisis in global warming?

All it took was a few thousand selfish idealist assholes to change the destiny of the world forever.

Don't make the same mistake twice because while you may not agree with Hillary all the time, she's sane.

You want to risk giving Giuliani or McCain the nuclear football? You really want these insane war mongers with the nuclear football?

You think Bush is as bad as it could possibly be?

You aint seen nothing yet. I do not have a doubt in my mind McCain or Giuliani would nuke the entire middle east if we had another 9/11 terrorist attack.

so LoZoccolo can put you on ignore more easily. :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

following the advice of donna brazille and the dlc cost him more votes

and the best way to get us to vote dem is to nominate a real dem. it's pretty simple

Ok. I know how you feel, and I also dont like hillary.
And i dont think she can win.

but, I wont vote third party because its a wasted vote.

We all have to be realistic-and use our head not our emotions.

BTW: even Michael Moore had the good sense to try and talk the fool(nader)
out of running in 04-after he saw the damage nader did in 2000 to our counbtry-for the sake of his big ego.

so, no i dont want hillary to be nominated because a woman cant
win in the current hysterical "war on terror" political climate.

but, i will support the nominee REGARDLESS and I hope everyomne will see the wisdom of doing so.

forget this herman munster character who started this thread. -he could be a republican
troller for all you know. and if so, hes laughing at you right now.

NOBODY said you dont have a RIGHT to vote for anyone-you can write in Tom Delay if you want to.
So please try and keep your composure.

This election is far too important for all this childish "dont tell me how to vote" crap.

...it wil be either her or anoher four years of Bush.

but I don't have to like it. :(

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and then vote whoever wins.

You don't take the ball and cry and go home to mommie.

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...because the alternative is too horrible to contemplate. If Bush is followed by another GOPer, we can kiss America goodbye.

We desparately want McCain to have the nuclear football. We live to see the middle east nuked.

You are beyond clueless.

I want an executive that represents my interests, not those of the MIC.

and vote for whoever wins.

very simple.

...regardless of their political party. I hope that person is a democrat, but if they're not, then it will be because the dems left me out again. It's THAT simple.

For me, the Democratic Party is my vehicle. It is a means to an end, and if I want it represent me more, I work within it. That's my personal choice, and I applaud your willingness to recognize that the choice belongs to you, not me, not Herman, not Hillary, not anyone. I trust you to make the right decision for yourself, and for our country. After all, if we can't trust individuals with their own votes, then democracy in America is dead, and we should stop pretending otherwise.

It changes no minds, and it assumes too much: namely, that Hillary has some kind of pre-existing right to ANYONE's vote, and that they are somehow taking away what is rightfully hers by choosing to vote for another candidate. It's a personal decision, not yours. You have no authority to tell anyone how they should be voting. I know you are frustrated, but that doesn't change one basic fact: You will always catch more flies with honey than with strychnine.

when not voting for the democratic candidate could blow up the world. literally.

With all due respect, what the fuck is wrong with you? It's more than a year until anyone votes, so just calm down.

And I don't know about the whole "Greens in Florida" crap you're spewing. Gore won Florida, but the court system, and not Ralph Nader, took it away from him and handed it to bu$h.

New Hampshire was much closer than Florida was in 2000. If you want to rail at Nader, that's a much more curious state than Florida was. And without those electoral votes, bu$h doesn't win in 2000.

Hillary voted to give bu$h warmaking powers in Iraq. And we're still paying the price for that vote today. She'll never get my vote for that reason alone.

2,000 votes and he would have won without the recount bullshit.

In fact, Nader received 97,000!!!!!!!!! Votes in florida in 2000.

97,000!!!!!!!1

Gore lost. He got more votes, but was royally jobbed by the Supreme Court. 2,000 votes in Florida, or anywhere else, won't change that.

And maybe, just maybe, all of the wrangling bu$h and his people did in Florida signaled to somebody that the time was right for an attack. So to blame Ralph nader, or those who voted for him in Florida or anywhere else, really doesn't do anyone any good.

Ok. I know how you all feel, and I also dont like hillary.
And i dont think she can win.

but, I wont vote third party because its a wasted vote.
We all have to be realistic-and use our head not our emotions.

BTW: even Michael Moore had the good sense to try and talk the fool(nader)
out of running in 04-after he saw the damage nader
did in 2000 to our country-for the sake of his big ego.

so, no i dont want hillary to be nominated because a woman cant
win in the current hysterical "war on terror" political climate.

but, i will support the nominee REGARDLESS and I hope everyone will see the wisdom of doing so.

forget this herman munster character who started this thread. -he could be a republican
troller for all you know. and if so, he's laughing at you guys right now.

NOBODY said you dont have a RIGHT to vote for anyone-you can write in Tom Delay if you want to.
So please try and keep your composure.

This election is far too important for all thse childish "dont tell me how to vote" tantrums.

Hillary is not the main issue. What I care about is people who think that they can lecture me about the doom and gloom that they believe will result from me not voting the way they tell me. I'm fully qualified to decide how to vote for myself, thank you very much. Haven't we learned by now that using fear as a sole means of persuasion is illegitimate, whether its Bush and Cheney who is doing it, or someone else?

Dear sir or madam- only one person, using the silly moniker of
"herman munster", told you how to vote,
or "lectured" you.

Why give him/her the satsifaction of seeing you seething over what he/she posted?


As for "doom and gloom", I think we DO have a doom and gloom president
who was elected with the help of people who is not support the party nominee in 2000.

justa clinton beat Bush 41 with the help of perot voters.

Anyway, I am not going to get in a silly flameout.

jmo...

have a nice day,

It's like you're whackin us with a soup spoon ....

I am not one of those whom you are referring to, but I find this thread probably says more about you, personally, than it does about those whom you have focused on ....

BTW: I already have a Mama ..... and yes: she has a big ole soup spoon ....

WHACK ! .... :spank: ...

if she clearly breaks with both the DLC and the war. There's no excuse for her STILL trying to fudge on Iraq and Iran. We all know those wars will never be popular again, so why even bother trying to have it both ways? People who share Bush's worldview have no Democratic or humane values.

We don't need nominees who bash liberals and progressives any more. Liberals and progressives AREN'T the cause of the Democratic Party's troubles. We don't need to apologize for our principles to win.

That simple. She won't lose. She would have never decared if she thought she could lose. She's in.

in a gen. election.

And PLEASE - STOP CALLING HER 'hillary'. Is is "wes', is it 'tom', is it 'barack'... is it 'john', is it....................



She is SENATOR Clinton. I may not support her in the primary, but I will give her the respect she deserves - the ppl of NY gave her the title.

Kos had a post about this today.

Pop stars can get away w/ such - she is not a pop star.


Anyone who has studied Linguistics will be able to explain the dire mistake she is making.

march to end this stupid, insane, illegal war. I hope Hillary Clinton joins us in support of ending and defunding this war of aggression.

It is wasted energy to hypothesize about what they might do in nearly 2 years, in a very unlikely situation.

That only makes people mad.
What makes you think she will be our nominee anyway? With her negatives she is in for an uphill battle. We have a lineup of excellent candidates and many to choose from. Why would we vote for someone we don't like when there are so many who are better.
Because the MSM has had a weekend long orgasm over Hillary and has the nerve to proclaim her queen does not mean she is.
Quit trying to browbeat people and cool down. Shoving her in our face like the MSM does not make people feel any more good will for her. It does the opposite.

I don't think Sen. Clinton's any better than Guiliani, McCain or Bush. There's a very good reason Bush Sr and Bill Clinton are such good friends. They have so much in common. There are very little differences between the Clintons and the Bushes. I think a vote for Sen. Clinton is pretty much the same thing as voting for a Republican and I won't vote for her.

Now, if she gets elected and proves me wrong, I'll be the first to admit it. But I don't think I'm wrong about her, and I'm usually right in my first opinion about people and my first opinion about Sen Clinton has always been she's someone I absolutely would not trust.

So let's make sure she isn't the nominee.

In your dreams.
I will vote for the person that represents ME, not some mega company out to send more jobs to a third world country that starves their workers so walmart can make more millions.

Huh, I guess I'll vote for John Edwards, just like last time.

Oh, and a fine example of "vote the way I tell you, or we are all screwed"

So I am not worried. The Republicans are going to dredge up the discredited Whitewater pseudoscandal. Labor still gets candidates elected, and the Clintons' "free" trade policies have ruined too many American workers for her to get labor's support. Sure she has the support of the moneybags, but that is not how politics work in the Democratic Party these days. We activists learned in 2004 that we should have pushed even harder for Dean. Had we pushed harder and not fallen for the MSM propaganda, Dean would have won the primaries and the presidency. Clinton is even more of a target for the Swift Boaters than Kerry was.

I am not sure this person "Herman Munster" is
sincerely speaking on behalf of Hillary anyway.

He/she is just way too predictably counterproductive
to be genuinely trying to help hillary-but he/she
sure jerked a lot of chains on this board. :)

Fpr example, would you get upset if someone posted
the following: "if you dont vote for Kucinich, good riddance"

would you let that get your goat, and make you mad at Kucinich?
and would you vote for a 3rd a third party candidate
who had no chance of being elected-of the alternative was Hillary or say,
another idiot like bush?

because thats the real issue in
this thread-Hillary is not that important.

I would hold my nose and vote for her.

I thinks shes a lot more liberal than she's letting on-and so do most repubs.

That said, shes' not exactly a transparent, straight forward individual.
so i understand the mistrust of her in some quarters.

But, she couldnt possibly be as bad as bush.

those who think shes no better than bush are the same
folks who bought into ralph nader's
disingenous line that "There's no difference between Gorge W bush and Al Gore"

remember that line from Ralph Nader?

run under, and that includes HRC.

of course, you could always write in bernie sanders...
or cynthia McKinney.

I may regret asking, but whats the definiton of a "corporatist"
and also...can you give us the name of one "non-corporatist"
who is running for prez with a viable shot at winning?

shoe leather and telephone wires for days on end for john kerry because he had a *viable* chance, and then when he won he still tossed in the towel and left it to the greens and the libertarians to challenge the validity of the vote counting in the most corrupt state in the union. fuck viability. i'm voting for the candidate that represents my interests. not one who's strong on defense - that' what the generals and sdmirals are for. not one that i wanna have over for a bar-b-q. i have plenty of people that i can invite over and have a feed with. i'm not basing my vote on who looks the best or who won the most medals. my vote is gonna go to the candidate that cares about people over profits, the environment over the wall street economy, healthcare coverage over padding friends businesses,education over the military, science over theology and the constitution over all.

brow-beating people about how they vote, but I feel your pain